Civil War Payroll gold may have been found in Elk County PA

[Honest Samuel]

It is always good to hear from Professor Tom.

 

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[1320]

Now you're acting childish. I'm done responding to you.

Busted!

 

[1320]

Based on press releases and statements made over the years, it will be a huge black eye for other treasure hunters going forward if no gold and/or silver was found.

 

[deedoubleyou]

I'm not going to lie, after learning of this and also recently learning that the kid in FL who shot his classmates had been reported to the FBI and police dozens of times, stuff like this actually bothers me. We pay these people --they are public servants, not public rulers. Sounds to me like if someone planted money or gold in Nick Cruz's house the FBI may have followed the lead. Its not at all great to see them fail to follow leads that could lead to saving lives, but follow leads on millions of dollars worth of lost gold. Priorities. Truth be told, if that money is real it should be owned by the taxpayers by now. Better yet, break it up and give it to our oldest veterans. They deserve it more than anyone. Definitely deserve it more than any one of the numerous bureaucracies.

 

[franklin]

Why all the politics? The gold has to be found first before deciding where it should be spent.

 

[G.A.P.metal]

Ted
Your camp is in a very interesting place for a treasure hunter !
I was down in there 40 years ago, i had heard of the Civil War Gold, but was looking for something different.
I had an old hunting partner who lived there... lot of History in those parts...couple more story's of treasure around there.
We looked for this and more .
Lost Treasure of Voyageurs POTTER CO. PA.
Potter County

 

[Tedyoh]

Very interesting indeed....have never heard of this story, we detect an old ghost town occasionally up there.....its an hour plus drive so we don't go often....will look into this more, Thanks!

 

[Old Bookaroo]

IMAUDIGGER:

I hope you write that story up and post it here on TN! There's a great deal to be learned from true accounts. In this case, it sounds like you and your dad did everything correct - you just didn't do it soon enough.

And, of course, you might save some treasure hunters from wasting their time looking for something that has been lifted.

A professional would have covered the hole (after adding some rubbish - see "Trash Cache" in KvonM's Encyclopedia of Buried Treasure Hunting (1964).

On another note, what great memories you have of spending time with our Dad and listening to your Grandfather! You can't put a price on those!


Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[G.A.P.metal]

Here ya go Book !

 

[Old Bookaroo]

That's my baby! Thank you for the plug. My personal favorite remains the Byerts pamphlet on the Lost Adams Diggings. I guess everyone loves their first born just a wee bit more.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[Clay Diggins]

Silver and copper coin were the common money of the time. The dollar by law was based on silver, not gold. Most often that was in the form of pieces of eight. American minted silver coin was rare. As was pointed out previously making pay in gold coin, or even more absurdly in gold bars, was not possible due to the value of the coin being too great to pay meager fractional wages of $22 every two months. The civil war, for the Union lead to a national bank, paper money and promissory notes. It wasn't until 1870 American gold and silver coins came back into general circulation.

Truth be told soldiers were seldom paid on time, had very little use for ready coin and sent most of their wages back home in the form of script.



These script were paid out by the soldiers State government - not army paymasters. The State government was liable to pay their State volunteer soldiers. Duty paymasters for the Union were in office only as long as it took to make the muster and pay the soldiers, after that their commission expired. There were only about 30 full time officers in the paymaster department and they were mostly administrators the rest were contractors that went home once the payroll was accounted for.

Soldiers could send money home through the Allotment system.The soldier signed a roll designating the payee and the amount to be paid.The roll was endorsed by his company commander and forwarded to the State treasury which sent it to the soldier's town or city. A local official notified the payee of the allotment. At the time of enrolling, tickets were issued to the soldier, which he then mailed to the payee. The payee presented the ticket when he was notified by the town official.

That and the fact that the Union was broke led to the Act of 1861 and the issuance of greenbacks - promissory notes consisting of paper only. Soldiers were rarely paid on time and it wasn't uncommon that the "pay" was in the form of a note "as good as gold at all banks and government offices throughout the United States". Yeah the convenience of drive through banking in 1861.

September 9,1861-"...the Treasury Department-to meet future payments to the troops-is about to supply, besides coin, as heretofore, Treasury notes, in fives, tens, and twenties, as good as gold at all banks and government offices throughout the United States, and most convenient for transmission by mail from officers and men to their families at home."

February 27, 1862 the Legal Tender Act was signed into law by President Lincoln, authorizing the Treasury Department to issue "greenbacks." Legal tender notes were backed by the full faith of the US Government but had no gold or silver backing.

1863-64 some soldiers subscribed to the 7/30 Government bonds in lieu of cash payment. By September 1, 1864, pay due every sixty days to military forces was $50,000,000.

So soldiers pay in the Union army consisted of a few slips of paper and some small change to make up the fractional part. The smart soldier would arrange for his family members to receive hard coin locally rather than trying to pass off some bogus paper script in the middle of a war zone.

Gold bars? Possibly but they certainly weren't for soldiers pay. Employing some real facts, common sense and occams razor it becomes obvious this story of buried gold bars is rotten at it's core.

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Clay Diggins:

Good post! I'm sure some of the Union soldiers' pay went to "truck from the suttler's store" and to wicked women.

And some they just squandered.

2.0: I wonder where the "$1 mllion to $1.5 million" value came from? [I think I know the answer.] At the spot price of $20/oz., twenty-six 50# bars would be worth $312,000. At the "New York" price of $30/oz., $468,000.


Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[deedoubleyou]

Why all the politics? The gold has to be found first before deciding where it should be spent.

I dont mean to get political, but when the FBI is involved in something like a treasure hunt, its kind of opens them up for some cracks if you ask me. They are supposed to be out stopping evil deeds lol. It makes me wish I was an FBI guy honestly....

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... Employing some real facts, common sense and occams razor it becomes obvious this story of buried gold bars is rotten at it's core.

Excellent post Clay. I hope folks read the definition of "occam's razor". The Oak Island crowd would have done good to have read that years ago. The more far-fetched ingredients you have to add to make a story plausible, and the more "more plausible" explanations you have to dismiss, then the more un-likely and silly the entire enterprise is. Excellent.

 

[Tedyoh]

So I'm sure when they found all the gold on The New York and SS Central America with 30,000 lbs of gold...you guys knew those were true stories from the 1850's because of your superior intelligence and research.....and I know when they find something on Oak Island (My theory is they already did, why else would they make the dumb boring show), or one of these "Legends" actually pan out....you will change your screen names or just disappear....i know the types....prescription meds are my recommendation.

 

[Tedyoh]

Now you're acting childish. I'm done responding to you.

Good choice.....2 of my friends was there today....same location.....ill post a pic if my phone let's me block out his head

 

[Tom_in_CA]

So I'm sure when they found all the gold on The New York and SS Central America with 30,000 lbs of gold...you guys knew those were true stories from the 1850's because of your superior intelligence and research......

The fact of a past success (Mel Fisher, etc...), does not qualify any/all future purported claims to, of necessity, be true. And besides: The successes you allude to could have had iron-clad historical reasons (without "more plausible explanations") to have gone after them. Versus some of the ghost story legends that circulate in MD'ing/TH'ing circles which would NOT have historical reasons. Other than suppositions, fanciful tales, etc....

Oh, and when I say "suppositions" and "fanciful tales": Do not take that to mean that the entire story is false. BY ALL MEANS they're usually riddled with true names, dates, and events (around which the cool story is built). But if there's no treasure, then it won't matter how much of the rest of the story is true. Eh ?

 

[Clay Diggins]

So I'm sure when they found all the gold on The New York and SS Central America with 30,000 lbs of gold...you guys knew those were true stories from the 1850's because of your superior intelligence and research.....and I know when they find something on Oak Island (My theory is they already did, why else would they make the dumb boring show), or one of these "Legends" actually pan out....you will change your screen names or just disappear....i know the types....prescription meds are my recommendation.

I see you joined Treasure Net in 2013 Tedyoh.

Looks like Tom_in_CA joined in 2007.

Looks like Old Bookaroo joined in 2008.

For myself it was 2010.

That's 8 years for me, 10 for Old Bookaroo and 11 years for Tom.

In 8, 10 and 11 years no miracle treasure stories that any one of us have challenged have ended in treasure being found.

On the other hand there are hundreds (thousands) of treasures that have been found by posters here on Treasurenet during that time, you can see them at the top of each forum page on Treasure Net. Go ahead look up there and see all the found treasures.

None of those found treasures were challenged by Tom, Old Bookaroo or myself.

So we are batting 400 because of our superior intelligence and research.

Maybe that's why we haven't changed our screen names or just disappeared.

Thanks for sharing your theories Tedyoh.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

..... In 8, 10 and 11 years no miracle treasure stories that any one of us have challenged have ended in treasure being found....

Good post Clay. There's an entire subsection of T'net dedicated to the various bigger legends. And there's scores of smaller ones. And you're right: To my knowledge, none of the (Yamashita, pearl ship, lost dutchman, oak island, etc...) have had any treasures forthcoming.

I suppose the faithful would say this though: "That doesn't mean the treasure wasn't there and wasn't found. It's simply that the finder kept mum. Since they no doubt feared the IRS, claim-jumpers, thieves, kidnappers, govt. interference, etc.... But rest assured: These big ticket treasures are real, and are being found. "

 

[Tedyoh]

I see you joined Treasure Net in 2013 Tedyoh.

Looks like Tom_in_CA joined in 2007.

Looks like Old Bookaroo joined in 2008.

For myself it was 2010.

That's 8 years for me, 10 for Old Bookaroo and 11 years for Tom.

In 8, 10 and 11 years no miracle treasure stories that any one of us have challenged have ended in treasure being found.

On the other hand there are hundreds (thousands) of treasures that have been found by posters here on Treasurenet during that time, you can see them at the top of each forum page on Treasure Net. Go ahead look up there and see all the found treasures.

None of those found treasures were challenged by Tom, Old Bookaroo or myself.

So we are batting 400 because of our superior intelligence and research.

Maybe that's why we haven't changed our screen names or just disappeared.

Thanks for sharing your theories Tedyoh.

(math again) - actually you can't bat 400.....it's 1 or less than 1, plus i didn't mention 1 name so you're actually batting 0

But since you are mentioning names, if one of these pans out, I'll dontate $100 to your favorite non-profit charity of choice is all 3 of you say something along the line of...."boy, we really don't look as smart as we thing we are now...." on here. I don't think you have that in you!