"Challenge For Superstition Gold"

[Oroblanco]

Or more importantly, the last page which tells you everything you need to know about Travis. This same last page which blows up the notion that Travis carved the Stone Maps for fun or to con anyone.

Mm-hmm. And what was Travis' fatal mistake in his search, using those stone maps that he failed to locate the unknown treasure/mine?

 

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[deducer]

Mm-hmm. And what was Travis' fatal mistake in his search, using those stone maps that he failed to locate the unknown treasure/mine?

No mistake; on the very last page of his manuscript, he laments that he failed to find what he was searching for.

Here is the passage, exactly as quoted from the last page:

I have failed in pitting my wits against the great odds of the evil spirits. now (sic) all I have left in life, is my memory of the beautifull (sic) Superstition Mountains. and the soveniers (sic) which I have found there. I know my dreams of ever finding the treasure is just another sad memory.

And also:

(T)here is nothing in the Superstitions, that I expect to see or ever care to see again.

These are bitter last words.

Hardly the words of a man who carved the Stone Maps just for fun, or to swindle someone.

And also, in his words, he was searching for treasure in the Superstitions, not butterflies, as you previously suggested.

 

[azdave35]

No mistake; on the very last page of his manuscript, he laments that he failed to find what he was searching for.

Here is the passage, exactly as quoted from the last page:

I have failed in pitting my wits against the great odds of the evil spirits. now (sic) all I have left in life, is my memory of the beautifull (sic) Superstition Mountains. and the soveniers (sic) which I have found there. I know my dreams of ever finding the treasure is just another sad memory.

And also:

(T)here is nothing in the Superstitions, that I expect to see or ever care to see again.

These are bitter last words.

Hardly the words of a man who carved the Stone Maps just for fun, or to swindle someone.

And also, in his words, he was searching for treasure in the Superstitions, not butterflies, as you previously suggested.

sounds like the words of a dying man

 

[PotBelly Jim]

No mistake; on the very last page of his manuscript, he laments that he failed to find what he was searching for.

Here is the passage, exactly as quoted from the last page:

I have failed in pitting my wits against the great odds of the evil spirits. now (sic) all I have left in life, is my memory of the beautifull (sic) Superstition Mountains. and the soveniers (sic) which I have found there. I know my dreams of ever finding the treasure is just another sad memory.

And also:

(T)here is nothing in the Superstitions, that I expect to see or ever care to see again.

These are bitter last words.

Hardly the words of a man who carved the Stone Maps just for fun, or to swindle someone.

And also, in his words, he was searching for treasure in the Superstitions, not butterflies, as you previously suggested.

Has it ever been established that Travis Tumlinson actually wrote this manuscript? If so, does he explain in it, how he used the stone maps to search for treasure in the Supes?

EDIT: Apologize for abrupt tone, client was calling and had to sign off. This question not just for Deducer but for anyone who may know, thanks

 

[somehiker]

sounds like the words of a dying man

Don't assume that he knew he was dying, when he composed that last page.

Although, in previous paragraphs he does describe his heart condition....angina pectoris, he gives no indication that he knows his death is imminent. He mentions father time as a factor, but not the grim reaper.
Only that it has left him unable to continue his search for...all that gold out there at the end of the stone map trail....and that the evil spirits and Thunder Gods have defeated him.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Don't assume that he knew he was dying, when he composed that last page.

Although, in previous paragraphs he does describe his heart condition....angina pectoris, he gives no indication that knows his death is imminent. He mentions father time as a factor, but not the grim reaper.
Only that it has left him unable to continue his search for...all that gold out there at the end of the stone map trail....and that the evil spirits and Thunder Gods have defeated him.

somehiker,

You are 100% correct. It was not the inability to use the Stone Maps to find a supposed treasure that defeated Travis Tumlinson, it was his own ability to continue the search due to his health that would not allow him to continue.
Right up until Travis's death in 1961, Phil Leasman was still continuing their partnership and search and when Travis passed on Leasman and Clarence Mitchell searched on in the Superstitions.
Leasman continued to search and only upon his death in 1970 did his search end.
Upon Leasman's death Mitchell moved to Smith's Flat (Placerville), California where he spent the summers but returned to Apache Junction each winter and searched the mountains until his own health failed and he could search no longer.

 

[somehiker]

Has it ever been established that Travis Tumlinson actually wrote this manuscript? If so, does he explain in it, how he used the stone maps to search for treasure in the Supes?

Yes and yes, Jim.

There is documented testimony from friends who had read what he had completed to where, at that point in his life he had already been diagnosed, and was seriously handicapped because of it....but was still determined to continue his search for the treasure, if they were willing to help him find and recover it. They described the manuscript as excellent.

He describes his finding of the H/P stone while wandering around near the highway during a break from his drive from Hood River to Texas, and then, on the next trip to Texas with his wife and his Uncle Robert along this time, camping beside Queen Creek while he tried to figure out how to use the H/P stone to find what, by then, he had been told (initially at a gas station in Texas) and believed the stone represented (a Spanish treasure of some kind) He details how he used 8-N-P in combination with something else on the H/P stone to eventually find the other three stones. He and his uncle, with some help from two locals initially, then begin to follow what they believe is the trail to as many as 8 Peralta mines deep within the Superstition Mountains. For Travis, it begins where he found the Map stones. Later, while describing how his Uncle Phil joined him in a subsequent search, and where they looked, he describes what they then believe is a Peralta treasure room at the end of a fifteen mile trail, along with what they both believe is likely within.

 

[somehiker]

somehiker,

You are 100% correct. It was not the inability to use the Stone Maps to find a supposed treasure that defeated Travis Tumlinson, it was his own ability to continue the search due to his health that would not allow him to continue.
Right up until Travis's death in 1961, Phil Leasman was still continuing their partnership and search and when Travis passed on Leasman and Clarence Mitchell searched on in the Superstitions.
Leasman continued to search and only upon his death in 1970 did his search end.
Upon Leasman's death Mitchell moved to Smith's Flat (Placerville), California where he spent the summers but returned to Apache Junction each winter and searched the mountains until his own health failed and he could search no longer.

AND.....as you also know from reading the manuscript, that one of his dreams mentioned in another chapter about his ongoing search of the Sups, is that he looked forward to his daughter Janie becoming old enough to join him on his quest to solve the stones and find the treasure.

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Yes and yes, Jim.

There is documented testimony from friends who had read what he had completed to where, at that point in his life he had already been diagnosed, and was seriously handicapped because of it....but was still determined to continue his search for the treasure, if they were willing to help him find and recover it. They described the manuscript as excellent.

He describes his finding of the H/P stone while wandering around near the highway during a break from his drive from Hood River to Texas, and then, on the next trip to Texas with his wife and his Uncle Robert along this time, camping beside Queen Creek while he tried to figure out how to use the H/P stone to find what, by then, he had been told (initially at a gas station in Texas) and believed the stone represented (a Spanish treasure of some kind) He details how he used 8-N-P in combination with something else on the H/P stone to eventually find the other three stones. He and his uncle, with some help from two locals initially, then begin to follow what they believe is the trail to as many as 8 Peralta mines deep within the Superstition Mountains. For Travis, it begins where he found the Map stones. Later, while describing how his Uncle Phil joined him in a subsequent search, and where they looked, he describes what they then believe is a Peralta treasure room at the end of a fifteen mile trail, along with what they both believe is likely within.

Many thanks, Wayne. So if 1) The manuscript is documented to have been written by Travis by 3rd parties, and 2) The stones are mentioned in the manuscript as what he was using for his treasure search, this indicates (at least to me) that we are left with 2 likely explanations:

1) Travis believed the stones to be genuine, (whether he himself carved them or not, using another info source such as the "Ground Map" or "Barn Map", etc.)
2) He was using the stones as an integral part his story for some other purpose. As Homar points out, most treasure maps and waybills were created to either get a grub-stake or generate interest/income. If this is the case, then what he wrote about the stones in his manuscript may not be true at all. Or half-truths, or ?

 

[azdave35]

somehiker,

You are 100% correct. It was not the inability to use the Stone Maps to find a supposed treasure that defeated Travis Tumlinson, it was his own ability to continue the search due to his health that would not allow him to continue.
Right up until Travis's death in 1961, Phil Leasman was still continuing their partnership and search and when Travis passed on Leasman and Clarence Mitchell searched on in the Superstitions.
Leasman continued to search and only upon his death in 1970 did his search end.
Upon Leasman's death Mitchell moved to Smith's Flat (Placerville), California where he spent the summers but returned to Apache Junction each winter and searched the mountains until his own health failed and he could search no longer.

are you sure he didn't find anything?

 

[azdave35]

AND.....as you also know from reading the manuscript, that one of his dreams mentioned in another chapter about his ongoing search of the Sups, is that he looked forward to his daughter Janie becoming old enough to join him on his quest to solve the stones and find the treasure.

that manuscript was more than likely written a little at a time over a couple decades....kinda like a journal

 

[somehiker]

Many thanks, Wayne. So if 1) The manuscript is documented to have been written by Travis by 3rd parties, and 2) The stones are mentioned in the manuscript as what he was using for his treasure search, this indicates (at least to me) that we are left with 2 likely explanations:

1) Travis believed the stones to be genuine, (whether he himself carved them or not, using another info source such as the "Ground Map" or "Barn Map", etc.)
2) He was using the stones as an integral part his story for some other purpose. As Homar points out, most treasure maps and waybills were created to either get a grub-stake or generate interest/income. If this is the case, then what he wrote about the stones in his manuscript may not be true at all. Or half-truths, or ?

2nd and 3rd hand parties, with whom TT had shared both his stones and the physical manuscript.
Other maps which he may have possessed or used are not mentioned in either transcript that I have read, nor are they mentioned in any other documented correspondence/ evidence that I have found or been given. I've seen photos of both "ground" and "barn" map, and others have as well. I won't be saying much more about the GM, since I believe it may have some value I have yet to discover, but I will say that the BM has no worth at all.....other than as a "Travis" memento for the family to remember his actual stone carving skills by.

As others have rightly reasoned, maps made using much lighter paper or hide etc. are much easier to manufacture....especially in quantities intended for sale. Also pointed out many times, is that they are far easier to carry and use whether on the search or just visiting friends who might be interested in joining up. So, while Travis may have crafted his GM.....and a "draft" of same btw....based on the map stones for reference in the field. I seriously doubt he would have done the reverse, just so that he could lug the stones everywhere else but on the trail....or to impress....for years at that and right up till his passing.

Insofar as what he wrote ?
What he writes about....in very similar format as that used by Clarence Mitchell in his book. The mountains, the long history of human habitations therein, as well as the legendary treasures sought and found or hidden by the Peraltas and JW etc., his own involvement in the stones and how his search began and progressed have a literal commonality. Both share observations about many places that those of us who have spent a lot of time out there easily recognize, have seen ourselves and also know something about...ie: the rock walled ruins of the Hohokam and Salado scattered throughout the range, as well as the large panels of petroglyphs which adorn many walls of black rock at south end in particular. He talks about hiking the Peralta Trail, the Don's club, and exploring the Weavers Needle area etc.
So, while his story....in his own words....may not be the "whole" truth and nothing but, it does exhibit enough truth to be quite credible for the most part, IMO.

 

[somehiker]

that manuscript was more than likely written a little at a time over a couple decades....kinda like a journal

As a collection of notes and references yes. And as a draft version.
Parts of which filled in some of the blanks for me.

 

[somehiker]

are you sure he didn't find anything?

He did. But nothing that would lead him or Phil more than part(s) of the way to the end.
Or even to make him the millionaire he wanted to be.
Oh yah, and as we also know.....certainly not to any E-Bay cross-lockets.

 

[Oroblanco]

No mistake; on the very last page of his manuscript, he laments that he failed to find what he was searching for.

Here is the passage, exactly as quoted from the last page:

I have failed in pitting my wits against the great odds of the evil spirits. now (sic) all I have left in life, is my memory of the beautifull (sic) Superstition Mountains. and the soveniers (sic) which I have found there. I know my dreams of ever finding the treasure is just another sad memory.

And also:

(T)here is nothing in the Superstitions, that I expect to see or ever care to see again.

These are bitter last words.

Hardly the words of a man who carved the Stone Maps just for fun, or to swindle someone.

And also, in his words, he was searching for treasure in the Superstitions, not butterflies, as you previously suggested.

So anything written in a book or manuscript then MUST be truth and factual 100%?

Funny you could not discern a bit of sarcastic humor in the reference to chasing butterflies as if I were proposing that was the real answer. Remember the rest of that sentence? Funny also that I already said I would let it go and have my answers yet you wish to continue to beat the dead horse.

I stand by the statement that we were NOT with Travis Tumlinson and thus can not KNOW for a certainty what he was or was not doing.

Last - if death was the only thing that stopped Travis from finding that pot-o-gold the stone maps allegedly lead to, then what stopped Clarence Mitchell from finding it? Thanks in advance.

 

[JohnWhite]

So anything written in a book or manuscript then MUST be truth and factual 100%?

Funny you could not discern a bit of sarcastic humor in the reference to chasing butterflies as if I were proposing that was the real answer. Remember the rest of that sentence? Funny also that I already said I would let it go and have my answers yet you wish to continue to beat the dead horse.

I stand by the statement that we were NOT with Travis Tumlinson and thus can not KNOW for a certainty what he was or was not doing.

Last - if death was the only thing that stopped Travis from finding that pot-o-gold the stone maps allegedly lead to, then what stopped Clarence Mitchell from finding it? Thanks in advance.

I keep on telling you Oro, as well as the rest of ya'll...They were all searching for IT in the wrong location...The area depicted in the PSM's is not...I repeat...Is not located in Arizona...IF someone has any proof that I am wrong...Well...I guess that I too am waiting for them to prove ME wrong...

Ed T

 

[PotBelly Jim]

I keep on telling you Oro, as well as the rest of ya'll...They were all searching for IT in the wrong location...The area depicted in the PSM's is not...I repeat...Is not located in Arizona...IF someone has any proof that I am wrong...Well...I guess that I too am waiting for them to prove ME wrong...

Ed T

As I recall, Oro has mentioned more than once that the stones may depict some place other than AZ.

My own opinion, I think they do apply to AZ, specifically to the Supes.

 

[JohnWhite]

As I recall, Oro has mentioned more than once that the stones may depict some place other than AZ.

My own opinion, I think they do apply to AZ, specifically to the Supes.

Jim...I know that Oro has mentioned on several occasions that IT may be in some other location other than the superstitions...I was just responding to his final statement in his last post...

And you too are entitled to your own opinion Jim...Maybe one day you may solve the darned stones and have something to prove me wrong in my stating that the location is not in Arizona...

I will continue to claim I have solved the stones...And I will continue to claim that I have proof from the area of which I speak, in the form of platinum bearing ore...I really don't care IF anyone believes me or not...I doubt that I can return to the site that the ore came from...But IT really doesn't matter to me...I have already been there and I too have already done that...

I know that I can find the beginning of the trail...That is the easy part...Getting to the site is the hard part...IF any of ya'll are searching for said site...I wish ya'll luck in finding IT...

Ed T

 

[rr-electricangel]

Hello stoners on Treasurenet. While I'm not a newbie I have not posted in quite some time. The amount of threads pertaining to the Peralta Stones is quite substantial and takes a lot of effort to read and follow. It has taken me almost 10 years to really get a grasp of this subject. I have read fragments of Travis Tumlinson's manuscript, luckily through the sharing of members here and elsewhere. I have asked Gregory E. Davis about this and he suggested I ask you about maybe getting a few more tidbits. If acquiring a copy of Challenge For Superstition Gold is impossible I would like just 2 questions answered that pertain to it.

1) Does Travis Tumlinson state in writing "when" he discovered the first stone half buried in the ground? In other words, does he state "1948"?

2) Does Travis Tumlinson state "how" he found the first stone? I've read Robert Tumlinson's correspondence but what about Travis's POV? I've only seen a redacted page of the manuscript relating to his discovery. Does Travis describe ducking down through a fence (like in his uncle's correspondence)? What words does he use exactly when describing how he dug up the first stone?

~Thanks

David Labay
(a.k.a. Electric Angel)

 

[gollum]

David,

Yes. Travis lived in Hood River, Oregon at the time. He visited his family in Texas, and on the way back to Oregon.........he said he found the stones (short version) on the NorthEast side of Highway 60 where it crosses Queen Creek. He even drew a map for his Uncle Robert.

To continue with what Kraig had posted some time ago, I can guarantee that Travis knew he was very ill. THAT is why, sometime around 1954-1955 Travis gave the Stone Maps to his Uncle Robert Tumlinson, who kept them in a box under his bed. About 1956-1957 Travis' Cancer may have gone into remission as it was then that he tried to get the Stone Maps back from Uncle Bob. Bob didn't want to give them back, and Travis had to pull a gun on him. They never spoke again after that, as evidenced by Dick Peck's Investigator (IIRC Elbert Love). In 1965 (four years after Travis died), when Love told Uncle Bob that Travis died in 1961 Bob was surprised to hear it.

Since a couple of people made a trip to Texas a few years ago, it is generally accepted that Travis did carve the Stone Maps. The only question now is whether or not he based them on an authentic Treasure Map from his Grandfather John "Pegleg" Tumlinson A well known Texas Treasure Hunter of the mid/late 1800s.


Mike