caves, large caches, poision gases

RDT you said the following, "Ah, err, about Au & AG being non reactive, to a point you are correct, but in the western soils there are many differing chemicals from many different sources which DO react with them under the right conditions."

What specific chemicals in Western soils react with gold and what specific poisoness gas is produced? Gold doesnt react with mild acids or bases. If there are people dying from poisoness gas from digging up gold or silver caches I contend its from manmade chemical put in or pocket of naturally occuring gases and no gas produced from a reaction of gold or silver.
 

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Evening Bg6 my friend: You posted -->

'What specific chemicals in Western soils react with gold and what specific poisoness gas is produced?'
~~~~~~~~

As for Au, Ag soil reactions, there are the natural Alkali's, Halides, Chlorides, and Cyanides for starters.

Regarding poisonous gases , no idea there, but not impossible under certain conditions.

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

Yes Western soils are more mineralized then eastern but all those constituents mentioned are not localized to the West alone. Plus none of the things you mentioned will react with gold to produce a poisonous gas. The most dangerous thing mentioned would be certain cyanide chemicals that can be deadly when mixed with acids. Im more afraid of the bigfoot attacking me then being overtaken by a poisonous gas produced from a reaction with gold. Treasure seekers and public utilities workers alike who die from gas exposure are usually overtaken by the common gases already discussed none of which come from a reaction with gold.
 

I think the big picture here is that most of these these things have happened to someone over the centuries.
Don't forget that rotting vegetation can produce methane that will sit at the bottom of a well or cave and the like.
Do not rule out that Au and Ag may be catalysts. If they are (I do not know if they are or aren't) that could cause the ionization phenomenon or potentially some gas without loss of mass.
Platinum is the catalyst in a catalytic converter.
None of this would keep me from concocting a plan when I find my cache.

Go find it
Jeff
 

Research says,both Silver and Gold act as industrial catalysts. So there is reason to believe that they could act as catalysts in a natural setting. Thereby giving credence to poison gas and ionized gasses building up in areas they may not normaly accumulate.

Jeff
 

Geko said:
Sure, no problem :thumbsup:

There is some other bit of slightly incorrect information here, which I forgot to address:


gollum said:
The biggest thing I woulod worry about in sealed dank places underground, is a little thing called HISTOPLASMOSIS.

Its' a fungus that grows in sealed underground places (sealed mines and vaults for example). When the dirt on the floor is disturbed, it will float around with the dust, and if inhaled, will get into your system. It will come on like a bad case of the flu. If you let it go too long, it is fatal.

If you open up something that has been sealed for a long time, wear a filtered mask.

Best-Mike
Click to expand...

Histoplasmosis is real, but the description is not accurate. It is not found in "sealed" places. If something has been air-tight sealed for a long time there are other things to worry about - mainly CO, CO2 and probably some artificially introduced gases.

Histoplasmosis is not caused by dirt, it is a fungus (H. capsulatum) which grows only on bat and bird guano (droppings). The spores get airborne when the conditions are dry. So, if you get in a very dry cave which has a big bat/bird colony inside and you find that by moving you raise dust, wear a dust mask by all means. Usually caves are moist places and this is not a big concern, although there are certain areas in the world where Histoplasmosis is endemic. However, the "trigger" is dust-dry conditions and guano - conditions which are encountered only in very old caves.

If you want to learn more about the disease, which you should, Google it. It is a very nasty thing. But don't get paranoid. Even among cave explorers who do this full time for their whole lives such occurrences are extremely rare. Especially when you have an eye for dry places you can completely avoid it
Click to expand...

Geko,

Maybe you might try reading a bit before making statements. I never said that Histo was CAUSED by dirt. For your information, it is not CAUSED by bird or bat droppings (they only exacerbate it). Please read:

On the other hand, fresh bird droppings on surfaces such as sidewalks and windowsills have not been shown to present a health risk for histoplasmosis because birds themselves do not appear to be infected by H. capsulatum.19,63 Rather, bird manure is primarily a nutrient source for the growth of H. capsulatum already present in soil.16 Unlike birds, bats can become infected with H. capsulatum and consequently can excrete the organism in their droppings.16,46,49,64
Click to expand...

That quote is from the Center For Disease Control Article about Histo. Here is the link:

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/hi97146.html

See, I originally had it explained to me by two Doctors who were also Spelunkers while we were talking treasure hunting. And YES, it does grow in sealed caves and mines (as long as there is dampness inside).

Before trying to oneup somebody, read a bit more than the relevant Wikipedia Listing.

Best-Mike
 

SWR said:
I think the comment was concerning sealed (air tight) locations not accessible to birds and/or bats. If birds/bats are there pooping...then the cave/mine/whatever is not sealed (air tight). No birds/bats...no Histoplasmosis.
Click to expand...

If he/she is saying that without Birds/Bats there is no Histoplasmosis, then he/she is mistaken. If you read either the quote I got or the entire article from the CDC about it, you will see that histo is not a product of bird/bat droppings. Histo is already in the soil, it just feeds on bird/bat dropping thereby exacerbating it.

ANYTIME anybody unseals a mine/cave he/she should ALWAYS do three things:

1. Air out the tunnel completely

2. Wear a respirator.

3. Have at least one other person outside for a safety net.

Best-Mike
 

kronos416 said:
So most of you feel that there are no such gases that are made from old stacked silver or old stacked gold and that the only gas you would have to worry about is of piled bat guano if its in a cave ?????? So no such metals should break down composition over years or if in contact with other metals / minerals shouldn`t give off any type of harmful fumes or anything that could harm you by any means????

Is there anyway to repel rattlesnakes while your walking , hiking, explorieng so you don`t end up coming across one in your path etc????
Click to expand...

Most likely the biggest risk is going to be bacteria and fungi via inhalation.Especially if the site anaerobic in nature.I would think that gases from gold or silver isnt likely. You never know what you are going to find buried or in a cave so you should always take measures and act as if gases are present. Wear proper respirators and air the site out and handled objects with proper gloves just to be safe.

As far as snakes go, wear thick boots and tuck your pants legs into your boots. Snakes will crawl up pants legs on occasion, especially if you are sitting or laying down. Avoid fall logs and rocks with crevices under them. If your headed into heavy snake country, a .410 shotgun will dispatch snakes safely from a distance. It's the best snake repellent I know. :laughing7:
 

You can also buy snake shot. Its like a small shotgunshell for handguns. They have it for most calibers. I have seen and used it for .38 and 9mm auto(have to load one at a time willnot usually chamber in auto) Its a little easier than packing a shotgun and do not, repeat, do not just saw the barrel off of the shot gun! Feds went to Ruby Ridge because of that and we all know what happened there.
 

The Cave down in Branson MO, the park people vent it out for a couple of hours prior to the public entering....lower oxygen level, increase in gases.
 

Look out for snakes and bats searching caves. Always have one person stay outside the caves, just in case, something bad happens.

Connecticut Sam
 

Snakes and Ghost

This post is only for those that believe in snakes and ghost guarding a treasure, all others please continue to the next post.

Can anyone tell me why the snakes and ghost would be guarding a treasure? Are they in it for the money, or just a hobby? How do the snakes survive and breed, is there someone bringing them food? Sounds amazing like the same stories of poor farmers guarding caches from the Southern sympathizers. If it is Spanish treasure, it has probably been stolen from someone else, and in all likelyhood, the poor people that did the actual mining didnt get anything from their work, so are the snakes protecting the treasure for the oppressors, and how many hundred years will they protect this treasure?

Sorry, but it sounds more like a Hollywood B movie script.
 

The main thing you would need to look out for is dead air in a cave , if it is an old mine and you do not know what you are doing do not go in. It is a good way to die.
In a mine or cave if you go in and it is in a dry area then look for dust , if there is no dust on the walls or pillar's or upright's then get out as it is unstable . But I will say again do not go in if you do not know what you are doing .

Caves you have to make your own judgment call as if they are safe , snakes go there in the winter to hold up till spring , some caves will be full of Copperheads and Rattlers and come out in the spring and they are hungry and looking when they come out. Some caves fill up with water from heavy rains , and they can flood in just a few minutes . So you have to really watch what you are doing .

But besides getting lost in big caves , and that happens every year the dead air at the back or bottom of the cave will make you sick or pass out. But you will tell as you will start feeling strange before it gets to bad.

Not all caves are dangerous , but the unknown ones that have not been mapped out by pros do take some care ! Never go and not tell someone where you are going or what cave you went in.

I lost count the times I had to go and search for kids who got lost in old mines or caves ! Do a search on cave safety and read everything you can before going out to find that treasure .
 

Snakes? I prefer a walking stick commonly called a hoe. Yes, a good, sharp garden hoe. The handle
is long enough to reach the snake with me still outside the snakes striking range. Mostly, take something
to stick in the snakes face. It will be looking at anything moving close to it, because that is the most
threatening thing near to the snake. The movement will distract it while you move away. I do not
normally kill the snake; yes there is always the urge to do-it-in, but you can over come that to help
let the snake do his job of clearing the area of rodents.
Poisons on treasures? I am still looking for the "big one". I do bring along gloves.
Lights near treasure or mineral veins? Here in the Southeastern US we call it "fox fire". Yes, it is some
sort of gas or something from the ground, usually near a vein of minerals. It has been used in this area
to find gold and silver veins. Many decades ago I visited a dig that was found by this fox fire method
of location. That too is not easy to do, but was done by an "old timer" in the hills.
Gases? This is the big one on this thread. First and foremost, GOLD is a noble element. It does not
corrode/oxidize; therefore, it does not give off a gas. The stuff around it in the rock when in the vein
will give off some gas, but not enough to be an issue if in the open. In mines and caves, yes the air
is very questionable. Silver, unlike gold, will have chemical reactions. However, I do not know that the
reactions will produce poison gases. Most of the gases and bad air in caves and mines come from
other things in the stone and soil. Once the gold or silver has been smelted, it will be safe to find,
handle, transport, etc. as long as it has not been cover with something by some nasty person that
hid it in the first place. (I once had the idea to train a Beagle dog to hunt veins of gold. Of course
that would not work, gold does not oxidize, so it does not have a smell. The dog could not do the
work by sent. Stick your nose on gold and silver to see if you can smell it!)
Ghost/spirit guardians? Personally, I do not believe in such things; Christ will keep me from any harm
these guardians might seek to do to treasure hunters. There is no discounting the power of SUGGESTION.
Religion, superstition, "old wives tales", are not things that will cause me to live my life in a state of
FEAR. So, my advice is study, research, hunt, and use lots of caution. (And insect spray!) Do not be
afraid of the things other people tell you, deal with reality in your presence, not their imaginations.
Nothing will discourage you faster than listening to a lot of people with their own ideas of how things
are, without any facts/experiences of their own. And keep in mind, YOU CAN READ ANYTHING ON
THE INTERNET! There is NOTHING people will not put on the internet.
The key to
success in treasure hunting is self discipline, keeping on going when you feel like giving up. Look
at Mel Fisher, he spent years on the bottom of the Gulf before finding the Atochia. Failing at first
is normal, just like walking. Just get up, go on. Do the work needed to succeed. Remember the old
saying, "fear is not an option". You have taken the first step, now make the journey to the land of
success.
Old Prospector said that....
 

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