caves, large caches, poision gases

[VICTORIO]

Kronos416 Wrote " So most of you feel that there are no such gases that are made from old stacked silver or old stacked gold and that the only gas you would have to worry about is of piled bat guano if its in a cave ".

No Sir Not me. I do beleave that Gold and silver release gasses. This is how many people in Mexico find Treasures. By chasing the fires caused by these Gasses. Many more have died when uncovering the Caches by not letting them air out.

 

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[minetres]

I have seen in some books as well as heard from other treasure hunters that some of the Mexican miners used to bury whisky bottles with cyanide mixed in them over a burial and if you break one with a shovel one good smell of the gas could kill you. Also Black powder as it deteriorates gives off a gas called black death that will kill you very fast.

Minetres

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Minettres you can forget about the cyanide trap thingie. cyanide has to react with an acid to form Hydrocyanic acid. Just don't ingest any, reacts with tummy acid, zap.

I believe that it was in the late 1800's when it was first formulated. too late for the Spanish.

I can smell an open drum of cyanide from 50 meters away

After being hit with a light case of cyanide poisoning, I have become sensitized to it.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI the remark about banks and vaults is incorrect since I have seen very few consisting of impervious layers of sun hardened adobe with the accompanying chemicals..

This treasure was recoveed with the first sign as a luminous gas, then pinpointed wth a detector. 1/2 of a mule load of 7 mules.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[gollum]

The biggest thing I woulod worry about in sealed dank places underground, is a little thing called HISTOPLASMOSIS.

Its' a fungus that grows in sealed underground places (sealed mines and vaults for example). When the dirt on the floor is disturbed, it will float around with the dust, and if inhaled, will get into your system. It will come on like a bad case of the flu. If you let it go too long, it is fatal.

If you open up something that has been sealed for a long time, wear a filtered mask.

Best-Mike

 

[ArkieGold]

I head on some of these posts that you have to worry about poison gases if you stumble upon and old larger cache. What kind of gases do they give off? Is it from the silver or gold or do both metals give off poisonous gas? How would you go about trying to recover such a cache? Is there any type of breathing aparatus you could wear while recovering the cache? Was just curious and thought some of you could share your thoughts.

OK, there are no naturally occuring gases or poisonous substances given of by clean, pure gold or silver that I'm aware of.

There could possibly be toxic gasses, fumes or other poisonous substances either man applied or natural like has been mentioned molds, fungus, bacteria. Water could leach arsenic found in quartz or other strata and drip it on the treasure.

Man applied could be any number of toxic things including traps, pits with spikes, deadfalls and viable explosives triggered by buried trip wires.

It might be safer to go into a cave or tunnel to recover a treasure than walking out your front door in these times. I would recommend if you must go in to go careful and easy and at least consider there could be toxins or traps and prepare. We don't go into any enclosed space without ventilating and nothing is handled bare handed without a good bath.

 

[jeff of pa]

what I don't remember seeing mentioned
that just popped into my head

you would want to be carefull of backing
an Animal into a corner
if it happens to be in there.
Don't matter if it's Rabid or not

 

[ArkieGold]

Mercury vaporizes at room temperatures. Could be associated vapors from nugget caches or poorly/partially refined end products. Lots of the old timers used the quicksilver and likely stashed a lot of their booty coated with it. Not a quick death but not a pleasant life with it in your system I hear.

 

[diggerdan]

I used to work at nuclear power plants. Prior to entering confined spaces, we had a crew that would check air quality. There were several occasions the space had to be ventilated prior to entry.

There are gases while not poisonous that are heavier than air and displace same. I would be more concerned w/ a lack of oxygen than poisonous gas, both will kill you dead.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

SWR you posted-->

The remark about banks and vaults are not incorrect. If stacking large amounts of gold or silver together created poisonous gasses it would be posted by that institution. Furthermore, if these conditions were to exist, it would be noted in some official content….in some part of the world…over the past few hundred years and not only on a treasure hunting foru
~~~~~~~~~~~~
A) you obviously did not read my post in it's entirety. I posted -->

HI the remark about banks and vaults is incorrect since I have seen very few consisting of
"impervious layers of sun hardened adobe with the accompanying chemicals"..

The last part tells the story. If the metals are enclosed in an impervious area consisting of dry, impacted , Adobe, and subjected to whatever chemicals are present in the materiel, then a chemical reaction is inevitable. Generally this impervious layer of Adobe is loosened with the first rains, which is when most of the luminous gas is seen.

B) As a matter of fact, Spanish and European literature has references to this phenomena almost from the beginning of written data.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[VICTORIO]

Don Jose dela Mancha Wrote " Generally this impervious layer of Adobe is loosened with the first rains, which is when most of the luminous gas is seen. "

Thank You Don Jose. No one can tell me they don't exist. Ive seen these fires in the mountains. Some are orange like a setting sun and some are yellow with a hint of Blue. Different fires for different materials. Like I said before people in Mexico have found Treasure by chasing these fires.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good morning SWR: First, we are not talking about bank vaults, but Mother Earth's ground. That is where the luminous gases that we are concerned with appear.

Second, can you "deny" that chemicals occurring in the ground, in intimate contact with buried metals, will not have a ionic reaction which can conceivably produce visible products under certain conditions?

third: Literature abounds with references to luminous gases due to buried metals, however I am too busy right now to do your work for you, so just check on De re Metalica 1500's and --->

Also a Quote from a semi scientific journal relating to so called spiritual occurrences -->

"All sources of ionization and piezoelectric effects would give rise to charged bodies. These charged bodies in cold moist places would attract water molecules and take the form of white ghostly bodies, often with “long hairs and without legs”. ----Other charged bodies could directly burst into luminous bodies, --- which are likely sources of many UFOs.

Go to --> An astro physicist / Cosmologist writes on lights, scroll down to "EARTH LIGHTS" for a general discussion .

http://www.astronomycafe.net/weird/lights/brown15.htm


There are literally hundreds of references to these luminous gases, so go do your work in research,, I did mine in the field.

In fact I have just posted a picture above of a treasure that was primarily discovered with a luminous gas. Post # 27.

Victorrio, you are quite correct. I too have seen them.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[CamoQueen]

Is there anyway to repel rattlesnakes while your walking , hiking, explorieng so you don`t end up coming across one in your path etc?
[/quote]

I have never heard of snake repellant. I live in Southern Arizona, and there really isn't much you can do to keep them out of your path. The main thing is watch where you are walking. If you get bit, seek medical attention asap but stay calm (i know, i dont see how you could stay calm of bitten by a rattler.) Anyway, i kill probably about 6 a year or more. Not for pleasure, but because they are in the yard and i can't risk me or my animals getting bit.

And yes, Rattlesnakes do hybernate during the winter. We were just expolring a cave and there was a small opening in the back of the cave that my husband and his brother crawled into. Come to find out it served as a den for 100 or more rattlesnakes. They were outa there quick!!!! lol!

 

[jeff of pa]

I have never heard of snake repellant.

http://www.liquidfence.com/snake-repellents.html?gclid=CJbY1ejLgpgCFQMnGgodohebDg

i doubt it would work for his purpose though

unless you could soak your clothes in it.


Most traditional snake repellents use naphthalene, a chemical that has been shown to cause liver damage, anemia and is classified by the EPA as a Class C possible human carcinogen. Liquid Fence Snake Repellent is naphthalene free, earth and family friendly, and just as guaranteed effective at repelling snakes.

 

[CamoQueen]

I don't think it would work either.

 

[coloradocav]

It's not the poison gas that bothers me , it's those dang poison tipped darts that shoot out of the walls that get me everytime.

 

[VICTORIO]

Snake Repellent for snake infested areas. Get a box of moth balls. Then get two eggs pour them in a bowl and scramble them with a fork. Do not cook. pour raw over moth balls. Make sure every moth ball is coated with egg. Scatter over Infested area. Don't know if it works but I was told that snakes will think they are quail eggs. They will swallow them and die as a result of their stomachs blowing up. If you are one of those snake friendly people wear cowboy chaps and boots. I don't recommend snake chaps that only go as high as the knee. don't be leave that snakes do not strike above the knee.That is falls. be leave me. Some snakes " Rattlers " can strike as high as the hip area of an average man.

 

[Geko]

Guys, I just discovered this site today and I am quite fascinated by it . This is my first post here, but I can contribute a little to the discussion.

The luminous gasses some discuss here are new to me, but sure sound very interesting. I can only comment on cave gasses, though, since I consider myself quite experienced in this area. I am a speleology instructor, I own a speleology school and have more than 18 years of field experience primarily in new caves discovery and exploration.

If you are concerned about limestone caves (which are about 98% of all caves) you don't have much to worry about. Typically, two types of gas are found in such caves - CO2 and CO. The first (carbon dioxide) builds up in caves with no free fair flow (rare) where there is a lot of organic rotting material near the entrance (usually dead leaves and plants). It can also build up if there are carcasses in the cave. It is easy to detect - if you find that you are breathing faster than normal, you should check with flame immediately. Try to light a match. If it does not light, get out.

The other type of gas - the CO (carbon oxide) is much more dangerous, you will not feel it in any way before it is too late, but it is very rare and it is highly unlikely that you bump into it. It usually forms in non-ventilated areas between two sumps in underground rivers. A cave sump should not be attempted without proper equipment and experience, and I doubt that many of you are trained cave divers, so this is really not of concern.

As for other dangerous gasses - flammable, etc, they are found in mines, not in natural caves. Don't confuse mines with caves - they have nothing in common. There are very real dangers exploring mines, but I will not get into details on this.

So, if you need any info on natural caves exploration, I am ready to help with information. I am quite far from the US though (eastern Europe), so no field trips.

 

[davidtn]

Geko...you da man. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.

 

[Geko]

Sure, no problem

There is some other bit of slightly incorrect information here, which I forgot to address:

The biggest thing I woulod worry about in sealed dank places underground, is a little thing called HISTOPLASMOSIS.

Its' a fungus that grows in sealed underground places (sealed mines and vaults for example). When the dirt on the floor is disturbed, it will float around with the dust, and if inhaled, will get into your system. It will come on like a bad case of the flu. If you let it go too long, it is fatal.

If you open up something that has been sealed for a long time, wear a filtered mask.

Best-Mike

Histoplasmosis is real, but the description is not accurate. It is not found in "sealed" places. If something has been air-tight sealed for a long time there are other things to worry about - mainly CO, CO2 and probably some artificially introduced gases.

Histoplasmosis is not caused by dirt, it is a fungus (H. capsulatum) which grows only on bat and bird guano (droppings). The spores get airborne when the conditions are dry. So, if you get in a very dry cave which has a big bat/bird colony inside and you find that by moving you raise dust, wear a dust mask by all means. Usually caves are moist places and this is not a big concern, although there are certain areas in the world where Histoplasmosis is endemic. However, the "trigger" is dust-dry conditions and guano - conditions which are encountered only in very old caves.

If you want to learn more about the disease, which you should, Google it. It is a very nasty thing. But don't get paranoid. Even among cave explorers who do this full time for their whole lives such occurrences are extremely rare. Especially when you have an eye for dry places you can completely avoid it