caves, large caches, poision gases

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hi Geko: Excellent fill in data. Thanks my friend. I may be contacting you soon for more information. We have a series of extensive limestone caves / tunnels carved by the river in the past underlying a 2- 4000 ft cap of Basalt which I wish to investigate since the contact zone has shown a tremendous amount of free Gold. according to the local Indians, but has not been recovered.

Also there are a series of very extensive caves near here which show evidence of having been used as a living area. Some supposedly run for kilometers and have never been explored in known times, but non native artifacts have been recovered from them....

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

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[Geko]

Hi Geko: Excellent fill in data. Thanks my friend. I may be contacting you soon for more information. We have a series of extensive limestone caves / tunnels carved by the river in the past underlying a 2- 4000 ft cap of Basalt which I wish to investigate since the contact zone has shown a tremendous amount of free Gold. according to the local Indians, but has not been recovered.

Also there are a series of very extensive caves near here which show evidence of having been used as a living area. Some supposedly run for kilometers and have never been explored in known times, but non native artifacts have been recovered from them....

Don Jose de La Mancha

Sure, write me a PM if I can be of help.

 

[sabre15]

Hey DJ,
The free gold is very dangerous, allow a professional to inspect the area before entering. Infact just send me the coordinates and i'll check it out for you and let you know what I find, I mean what the conditions are like!

 

[bigoink]

Where i operate in the Philippines , i can tell you for sure, some of the sites of jap occupation ARE mined . You have to be very sure before you dig. Best get someone else to do the digging while you watch from a distance !

 

[Hosensack]

Is there anyway to repel rattlesnakes while your walking , hiking, explorieng so you don`t end up coming across one in your path etc?

I have never heard of snake repellant. I live in Southern Arizona, and there really isn't much you can do to keep them out of your path. The main thing is watch where you are walking. If you get bit, seek medical attention asap but stay calm (i know, i dont see how you could stay calm of bitten by a rattler.) Anyway, i kill probably about 6 a year or more. Not for pleasure, but because they are in the yard and i can't risk me or my animals getting bit.

And yes, Rattlesnakes do hybernate during the winter. We were just expolring a cave and there was a small opening in the back of the cave that my husband and his brother crawled into. Come to find out it served as a den for 100 or more rattlesnakes. They were outa there quick!!!! lol!
[/quote]

1)tall thick rubber hiking waders.
2) a. pull trigger b. hammer strike c. "repellent" propells towards head at high rate d. rattle snake "repelled" (last resort if rural enough area, if close to homes maybe proactively "repel" them.)

 

[tvanwho]

Re: caves, large caches, poision gases,squirtguns?

So my squirtgun won't work to repel a snake?I don't like the other kind of gun especially if gold fever is present. An air pistol any good? I have heard gold gives off tiny amounts of arsenic gas and arsenic is a gold indicator in mineral and soil assays for prospectors looking for gold deposits in an area. I will be using a hiking stick myself and will be sure to wear gaiters and heavy brush pants in the Superstition Mtns next month. Any recommendations for brush pants that won't get too heavy and hot in Arizona heat in April? I could always use some new friends out that way too if anybody is interested in meeting up to nugget hunt?

I almost passed out 3 times last year.I was panning for gold in a tiny creek with tall, narrow banks in May. Something smelled really awful, then I just could not catch my breath and decided I better run back the way I came real quick. Happened to me twice in the same creek .As we were driving back home, it happened a 3rd time at a low spot between some small hills on the paved road. I did see tanks of Ammonia in the fields so I am assuming it was Ammonia /nitrogen gas causing my breathing difficulties?

So, if I am alone and several hours away from help ,and get bit by a snake, am I SOL? Does it help to have a stun gun to give the bite an electric shock? Some people swear by this, others say its bs, I dunno?

-Tom

 

[jeff of pa]

My Guess
& That is all it is; a Guess

Those who swear by a stun Gun have never
been bit by a Poisonous Snake.
Just thought they were.

Or they only got enough venom in the first place
to make them slightly ill.

if anything I would think a shock
would only agitate you and make your blood
pump faster as you recover causing more problems.
may as will pour lighter Fluid on the bite & Light it :P

 

[Hosensack]

My Guess
& That is all it is; a Guess

Those who swear by a stun Gun have never
been bit by a Poisonous Snake.
Just thought they were.

Or they only got enough venom in the first place
to make them slightly ill.

if anything I would think a shock
would only agitate you and make your blood
pump faster as you recover causing more problems.
may as will pour lighter Fluid on the bite & Light it :P

Was on a missions air base in North Carolina. They had the electric pulse tools for snake bites and fire ants. the gist(not sure if it is proven or theory) venom of any kind reverses the polarity of your cells which causes the damage, the shock reverses it back. I would assume this would only help keep the bite area from deteriorating(flesh) but you would still need anti venom or some sort of treatment for the poisoning.

 

[One mans trash...]

Stories of both luminous effects marking gold and silver caches and stories of snakes guarding treasure are both very old and very frequently heard. It's impossible to know which are claimed from experience and which are embellishments modeled on folk knowledge. That a glow could indicate precious metal was in many places stated in a very matter-of-fact way, as something everyone knew. Opinion was divided over whether it was generated by the gold or was a "guardian." Bottom line is - who would ever ignore such an observation?

The rattle snake guard stories I recall arise in places where the snakes are common and commonly found using all sorts of caves and crevasses. Nothing mystical about it. Only a fool would reach into a rock hole in snaky country without probing or looking. I've pumped gasoline through a copper tube into rock hills in West Texas and had to dance to avoid the dozens of rattlesnakes popping out all around. Most of the stories relate exploring a cave out of curiousity and observing piles of loot before hearing the "granddaddy of all rattlers" or seeing the snakes. before fleeing. The amount of treasure seen always sounds like something added to turn an otherwise mildly interesting snake story into an amazing tale. And the behaviors sometimes attributed to the snakes, such as advancing menacingly when the teller picks up gold and backing off when he puts it down, sound a bit too much like a necessary device to explain why he left empty-handed and never went back to deal with the supersnakes. One goes so far as to relate returning much later to find bits of snake scattered outside the cave, which had apparently been cleared out with dynamite by someone who presumably got the gold. It's always something.

 

[jeff of pa]

welcome One mans trash...
glad to have you with us.
you put that very well.

Yes the possability of snakes are always there
But not Snakes with Brains Watching over a treasure.

And The Lights have been seen by too many to be
just passed off as non Existant.

As Far as treasures, They almost always look like more
In our memories then they realy Are.

But most Tales are based on something

And this being a treasure Hunting site
Destroying anyones dreams is Out of The Question.

so if any of you hear those tales, find that cave or see those lights
I sure hope you at least Investigate (with Caution) .

Good Hunting all !
Jeff

 

[jeff of pa]

when someone requests information like this post
Fine !

When someone Gets Fed up With the "Negative Comments"
It's time to Live & Let live.

Anyone Starting a post has the right to Go on "Unmolested"
if they request it

 

[Leones Corazon]

Jeff...my two cents.

Traps are real. Make a trip out west and i'll personal disprove that myth for you.
Since your most likely a show me kinda guy like myself...i respect the thoughts.

The only naturaly deadly gas i am aware of comes from natural gas deposits we drill
for on sour gas wells. Ie: H2S. Smells like rotten eggs. By the time you get a good
whiff of it your down for the count....and if your lucky someone will be around to re
vive you with in ten minutes. H2S exposure only takes a small amount in the parts per
million to knock you on your bunz. But for the topic i'd assume a highly unlikely culprit.

I believe the handling of a cache of gold and or silver bars without rubber gloves and then
leather gloves over the rubber is what and where the myth lies. Although i have no proof;
i have heard handling such bars without the noted precautions result in cyanide poisoning
via absorbtion through ones skin that is on the bars not as a nasty trap but a left over from
the smelting process.

Bacteria...i saw a show on tv...either via discovery and or the history channel within the last 6 months where Dr. Hamas (sp) the king of egyptian antiquities found some burials along the route of alexander the great near an ancient oasis. He stated that even though the bodies were mumified and thousand of years old...the bacteria is a very real threat...and the below ground burial chambers were aired out for 48 hrs before entry. So...if any thing i have going pops open a long sealed cavern-cave-etc. You can bet i will be respecting the 48hr rule for safeties sake.

Can smelted gold and or silver give of fumes? Umm...show me. However...i have heard and seen a few pictures related to said subject in a round about way...ie: poloraid film....8-10 am...take pics and a yellow or greenish haze will be seen on the picture if there is a target. So...seen some pics...and said owner of pics confirms the haze matched the end result of excavation....but i didn't see the end result so i can not comment. I can say i conducted the experiment myself...and where i thought we had a target...and only within the time frame i mentioned...i to recieved the same results. And so....the experiment was conducted again on differents days....and times...end result...same results. Odd indeed....but i have not finished said project due to a trap that almost got me....so i can not verify other than i am 50 percent sold on said subject.

Snakes....i would say not impossable....but highly unlikely. If there is no food to feed upon like any other creature...the snake will move on. And most of what i have seen or started into has always been sealed rather tight making the probability of snakes a moot point. I have seen a few things opened by mother nature and time...and in that case it would be a anomoly as a snake needs heat to move being a reptile...however there is to much of a good thing and i think said reptile might escape the rays under a stone..in a mine shaft portal...in short...wha ever is close and easy.

DW

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI: frankly cyanide will be the least of your worriies. I f the bars are of Spanish origin, they will not have had cyanide in any of it's recovery operations. Second in the smelting process any residual traces of cyanide will have been long burned off.

The same apies to Arsenic.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[VICTORIO]

The Snake ( s ) are the " Guardians ". The ones I have known about are not real . Think of them as ghost. Like I said, Guardians. Real de Tayopa I think you should know what I'm talking about Sir. You have probably heard these type of legends before in the areas you hunt. In my opinion they are real. I have met very humble, credible indigenous people that tell me they have seen these snakes and Ghost dogs. They are not real But they are. I cannot prove it though. As for the Luminous Fires I have seen them more than once.

 

[tvanwho]

Ghost dogs, Luminous gases over Gold?

I will be going to an area where my map dowsing indicates a large amount of spanish/mexican gold possibly . When is the best time of day or nite to see these luminous clouds over a gold deposit? Just what do they look like exactly? Is it possible to communicate with a ghost, ghost critter? Would I dig under the spot where the yellow cloud is and how deep?
Thanks,ps, also need to know what the following characters refer to at the site? They are on a hillside in my aerial photo. C, F, H, +, 3, 2, 7, a white heart, large white cross, and what looks like a 5 fingered white starfish. I know the 7 means end of trail ,stop here, Gold, the heart refers to Gold, and the large white cross refers to gold and safety.
THanks,

Tom,I will have my dowsing rods with me and several cameras, Whites TDi metal detector, etc. I promise not to go into any caves or mine tunnels without a buddy along and lots of rope ,water, and flashlights,weather report looks great, high 70, low 80's

 

[boogeyman]

Just to add my 2 cents worth...

Few, if any, caves will have a buried cache..

More rumor or wishful thinking than reality...

However, many caves, especially old abandoned mines do have poisonous gasses...

Several years ago, a couple of young, stupid and drunk, post teens entered a boarded-up mine in Silverado Canyon (Orange County, CA) and died from gas fumes within 50 feet of the entrance...it happens.

Heard that was actually in Modjeska canyon.


I think a lot of the poison gas rumors/stories are nothing more than the cave or shaft having a lack of useable oxygen. If the O2 is down around 14% or less, you're gone before you realize what the heck.

 

[DFX DAVE in M.D.]

After watching this Steve Irwin episode of him playing near a rattlesnake den, a few years ago, I am real carefull in the mountains.

[youtube=425,350][/youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQUPKt907Vg

 

[bg64vw]

Im not an expert on anything but I have a little understanding on alot of these subjects. My education is in geology, particularly karst hyrodology (caves and groundwater). As already outlined caves and mines are two totally different animals. Caves are naturally forming almost always in limestone and poisones gases arent a real issue other then a radioactive gas called radon which is carcinogenic but dangerous exposures are measured over many years. The most hazardous things in caves is flooding following flash floods, falling in pits or having things fall on you in tight spots (see Floyd Collins) and yes maybe illnesses from things like Histoplasmosis (I have had). I'd be more worried about exposure to fecal colliform which results from water running over human or animal wastes. Septic tanks arent overly effective in cave country because theres not enough soil for the water to filter out contaminants before it finds a crevice or conduit into the caves. Now mines have gases like methane which can kill you and H2S (Hydrogen sulfide) both can kill you. In the old days they took canaries into the mines and if they died either from low oxygen or exposure to poisoness gases then they knew it was time to get out.
Some of these same gases are attributed to causing some of the different types of lights people see and are lumped together into anomalous earth lights. Lights are seen in swamps (swamp gas) or in areas of high volcanic activity or following earth quakes. Also different types of electrical charges in the atmosphere cause lights such as “ball lighting” or St. Elmo’s Fire. Even living organisms cause lights like Foxfire.
As for gold and silver they are highly nonreactive. That’s why when ancient relics are dug out of the ground after thousands of years they are still shiny which is particularly so for gold. They just don’t react with anything, they are stable elements. I don’t know about contaminants from the smelting process.
Snakes do hibernate in pits sometimes but its natural not some trainable behavior such as guarding treasure. Now if someone put something in a “known” hibernation area then that’s different.
Never say never but the only real treasures to be found in most caves is ancient native American artifacts or fossils.

 

[stefen]

Note that the poisonous gasses was referenced to mines not caves.

The OC Register article expressly noted Silverado Canyon (silver & coal mines) and not Modjeska which was not known for mines of any sort.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good morning BJ6: You posted,->
's for gold and silver they are highly nonreactive. That’s why when ancient relics are dug out of the ground after thousands of years they are still shiny which is particularly so for gold. They just don’t react with anything, they are stable elements. I don’t know about contaminants from the smelting process'
~~~~~~~~~~~~.
Ah, err, about Au & AG being non reactive, to a point you are correct, but in the western soils there are many differing chemicals from many different sources which DO react with them under the right conditions.

On the ionic level we have no idea just how much is needed for a visible emanation. It may require an assayers balance to determine the insignificant amount used over years.

Smelted metals do not retain many of the volatile impurities, such as Hg. As. & Cn. Their level of vaporization is much lower than that of the precious metals.

Don Jose de La Mancha