Cave of gold bars

[deducer]

The Jesuits were relative late-comers to Mexico, with the first fifteen arriving at Veracruz in 1572.
So they missed most of the bonfires anyway.

There was allegedly a Jesuit that went with the Coronado expedition in 1540. I am trying to locate where I read about that.

And while the Jesuits as an organization was "founded" in 1540 (or rather officially recognized by the pope), it was already an organization by 1534, and considering Ignatius Loyola's zeal, it's not surprising they hit the ground running hard. Seems they sent out advance scouts everywhere. By 1556, there were already 1,000 Jesuit priests.

 

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[deducer]

ola, Oro redirected me to here..Tayopa was found in the 50s, I still own it.( no money to develop it, sigh) Father polzer and I were in contact when he died in his sleep at the jesuit hospital in Santa Barbara. Calif.

The two young Jesuits that I talked to near Chinapas, Chih, were not conifrmed yet, but as part of their training were looking for a closed Jesuit Gold mine. They never found it.

the reason that the Jesuits couldn't relocate Tayopa after a few years is that it it's entrance is at the bottom of a barranca, horizontal. After they closed up the entrance it wa subjected to a no of years of hurricanes entering Sonora and finally ending up in Chihuahua where they dumped torrential rains in the Tayopa zone.. A land slide completely buried the horizontal entrance with tons of overburden. The Jesuits knew where it should be --but.

The Caballo mts in New Mexico was their holding point for transshipment to Rome via the Rio del Norte. As far as I know they are still intact. They were forced to abandon them with the onset of the American civil war. They had flatly stated officially that they had done no mining in Mexico.

The following map of the trails leading to the Caballo is through the kindness of our fellow member NP

The nap si correct, I know because of certain documentation that I have not made public.

View attachment 1479224

Joseph,

Good to see you posting here again.

I can also confirm what Joseph has written above. I also have seen the same configuration of the Caballo Mts as depicted in NP's map- the distinctive upper and lower portion, duplicated on another old map which I cannot share in public. That map is also Jesuit in origin.

 

[sdcfia]

... The Caballo mts in New Mexico was their holding point for transshipment to Rome via the Rio del Norte. As far as I know they are still intact. They were forced to abandon them with the onset of the American civil war. They had flatly stated officially that they had done no mining in Mexico.

The following map of the trails leading to the Caballo is through the kindness of our fellow member NP

The nap si correct, I know because of certain documentation that I have not made public.

View attachment 1479224

As you know, I feel that the np Noss map is some sort of a prop for yet another Noss family deception. I've detailed a lengthy argument to support that in the Caballo-Victorio threads and elsewhere.

Be that as it may, just for the sake of argument, can you please explain why the Jesuits decided to leave all that wealth in the Caballos after their expulsion? Are you saying, like gollum, that they "forgot where they put it?" How could they forget about it if there was a map? Where did the map come from if not the Noss gang?Are you saying the brothers wouldn't or couldn't remove the loot sometime during the 1800s or later? After all, that long parade of lucky hillbillies were able to find it in the 1930s.

 

[sdcfia]

Joseph,

Good to see you posting here again.

I can also confirm what Joseph has written above. I also have seen the same configuration of the Caballo Mts as depicted in NP's map- the distinctive upper and lower portion, duplicated on another old map which I cannot share in public. That map is also Jesuit in origin.

Yes, I have yet another map that contains a similar depiction of the Caballo region, including a trail system leading westerly to the Cookes Range and up to Santa Rita. Those historic trails are not difficult to pin down - one was used by Lt Emory in 1846-7 and is described and mapped in his journal. It's very doubtful that the map I have was prepared by Jesuits, for the same reasons that I offered Don Jose re the overwhelming unlikelihood of such intense Jesuit activity within a Franciscan and Spanish stronghold - after all, the Caballos sit on the Camino Real de Tierra Adentro (Royal Road of the Interior).

 

[sdcfia]

There was allegedly a Jesuit that went with the Coronado expedition in 1540. I am trying to locate where I read about that.

Now that would be news.

 

[Real of Tayopa]

Because of Noss burning letters and documents, we have no idea of the collusion that went on between the Jesuits, Franciscans, and Apache, and there was. Just like there was in WWII. Where we shot down Japanese aircraft on Guadalcanal, with 1942 instruments made in America. When we questioned this the report came back, " you like your rubber tires and other things ?? There always is an interchange of business as usual -- even with the Apache

 

[cactusjumper]

There was allegedly a Jesuit that went with the Coronado expedition in 1540. I am trying to locate where I read about that.

And while the Jesuits as an organization was "founded" in 1540 (or rather officially recognized by the pope), it was already an organization by 1534, and considering Ignatius Loyola's zeal, it's not surprising they hit the ground running hard. Seems they sent out advance scouts everywhere. By 1556, there were already 1,000 Jesuit priests.

deducer,

Don't believe any Jesuit Priest accompanied Coronado in 1540. Hope you find that source. Let us know.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[azdave35]

Because of Noss burning letters and documents, we have no idea of the collusion that went on between the Jesuits, Franciscans, and Apache, and there was. Just like there was in WWII. Where we shot down Japanese aircraft on Guadalcanal, with 1942 instruments made in America. When we questioned this the report came back, " you like your rubber tires and other things ?? There always is an interchange of business as usual -- even with the Apache

lol...they don't call it a war economy for nothing

 

[sdcfia]

Because of Noss burning letters and documents, we have no idea of the collusion that went on between the Jesuits, Franciscans, and Apache, and there was.

No idea indeed. That's a stunning rewriting of a large chunk fairly recent history. Throw away all we have on the Jesuits, the Franciscans, the Spanish, the Apache and all others who interacted with them for a couple hundred years. All because of that scamp Doc Noss's shenanigans, eh?

 

[somehiker]

There was allegedly a Jesuit that went with the Coronado expedition in 1540. I am trying to locate where I read about that.

And while the Jesuits as an organization was "founded" in 1540 (or rather officially recognized by the pope), it was already an organization by 1534, and considering Ignatius Loyola's zeal, it's not surprising they hit the ground running hard. Seems they sent out advance scouts everywhere. By 1556, there were already 1,000 Jesuit priests.

They certainly didn't waste any time getting out there to familiarize themselves with, and to wiggle their way into the highest societies of "new" lands where the economic potentials were boundless and tales of ancient treasures common. Africa, from Egypt, the Blue Nile and Ethiopia down to Zimbabwe, India,China and Japan, where they for a time monopolized trade with Europe in silk,gold and other commodities, and on the other side of the world, French Canada,as well as the other new colonial territories in all three continental areas.
While mining may have been one of the contributing sources of their rapidly growing wealth and the resultant power and prestige such always brings, it was the sum of all the "other" activities the society engaged in which gradually aided in filling the coffers of both the Vatican and that of their own organization in those 240 years prior to the suppressions of the eighteenth century.

 

[somehiker]

Because of Noss burning letters and documents, we have no idea of the collusion that went on between the Jesuits, Franciscans, and Apache, and there was. Just like there was in WWII. Where we shot down Japanese aircraft on Guadalcanal, with 1942 instruments made in America. When we questioned this the report came back, " you like your rubber tires and other things ?? There always is an interchange of business as usual -- even with the Apache

There's only a handful of veterans of the Guadalcanal Campaign left today.
One place where others can express their gratitude on VJ day later this month.....
https://www.facebook.com/pg/GuadalcanalCampaignVeteransAssociation/community/?ref=page_internal

 

[Old]

>>>>No idea indeed. That's a stunning rewriting of a large chunk fairly recent history<<<<

Nothing new here. Happens regularly. You want recent? How about last Friday. All you hear on the news is Russia, Russia, Russia. Russia=bad. But NASA (via Congress) pays Russia (un-sanctioned) upwards of half a billion to reserve seats on their Soyuz space craft to transport NASA astronauts to the ISS. Latest ride, last Friday, to the tune of near $80 million for one seat, one way. Meantime simultaneously Congress was salivating over increased monetary sanctions on Russia to include everything from tractor parts to hedge funds. And what's the long term answer to the Space program? Boeing.....who gets its rocket engines from..............da DA...........Russia. Nothing new here. Its all just in the telling of the tale. Commerce makes for strange bed fellows. Not saying Russia is good...just saying the spin of the interaction and exchange depends on whose ox is getting gored.

 

[Backwoodsbob]

That the problem over there in DC. They think they are fooling us. It reminds me of the two faced stones carvings out there. Sorry just fed up and I feel better now thanks.
Bob

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

 

[Cubfan64]

That the problem over there in DC. They think they are fooling us. It reminds me of the two faced stones carvings out there. Sorry just fed up and I feel better now thanks.
Bob

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

I think the REAL problem isn't that they think they're fooling us, it's that they ARE fooling us. And when I say "us," I mean the overwhelming percentage of voters who are too busy, too uninterested, too uninformed and too narrowmindedly partisan to do anything to change things.

 

[Backwoodsbob]

Stop putting the same ones in there. No repeaters will sent a message. We can take it back.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

 

[somehiker]

I think the REAL problem isn't that they think they're fooling us, it's that they ARE fooling us. And when I say "us," I mean the overwhelming percentage of voters who are too busy, too uninterested, too uninformed and too narrowmindedly partisan to do anything to change things.

I'm convinced there is a small dark windowless room somewhere in DC, and the same up here, where each and every newly elected member is given "orientation" on their first day.
That is where, while under a single light bulb in the center of that room, they are told how it all really works and given a list of names of those who refused to follow the rules.

 

[Honest Samuel]

Sounds good to me.

 

[deducer]

Be that as it may, just for the sake of argument, can you please explain why the Jesuits decided to leave all that wealth in the Caballos after their expulsion? Are you saying, like gollum, that they "forgot where they put it?" How could they forget about it if there was a map? Where did the map come from if not the Noss gang?Are you saying the brothers wouldn't or couldn't remove the loot sometime during the 1800s or later? After all, that long parade of lucky hillbillies were able to find it in the 1930s.

As Joseph has said, they did try:



I think you asked me a similar question earlier and I never got around to answering it, so my apologies.

Let's put it this way, suppose you had enormous booty and had just received word from home that you were very likely going to get the heave-ho, where would you stash your booty? In your backyard where there are too many witnesses, or would you use your very competent and sophisticated trade system and truck it way up to where the map says datos insuficientes?

 

[sdcfia]

I'm convinced there is a small dark windowless room somewhere in DC, and the same up here, where each and every newly elected member is given "orientation" on their first day.
That is where, while under a single light bulb in the center of that room, they are told how it all really works and given a list of names of those who refused to follow the rules.

View attachment 1479506

Someone once said they are shown the a JFK assassination film photographed from the grassy knoll.

 

[mdog]

They certainly didn't waste any time getting out there to familiarize themselves with, and to wiggle their way into the highest societies of "new" lands where the economic potentials were boundless and tales of ancient treasures common. Africa, from Egypt, the Blue Nile and Ethiopia down to Zimbabwe, India,China and Japan, where they for a time monopolized trade with Europe in silk,gold and other commodities, and on the other side of the world, French Canada,as well as the other new colonial territories in all three continental areas.
While mining may have been one of the contributing sources of their rapidly growing wealth and the resultant power and prestige such always brings, it was the sum of all the "other" activities the society engaged in which gradually aided in filling the coffers of both the Vatican and that of their own organization in those 240 years prior to the suppressions of the eighteenth century.

Hi Somehiker. The Jesuits could have had a jump start with their commercial enterprises. I'll keep it short so you don't doze off.

Some of the greatest traders in history were the Phoenicians. They were often spared the pillage of ancient conquerors so they could continue to trade for there new masters. When the Phoenician city, Carthage, was destroyed by the Romans, the Phoenicians could no longer practice their religion so they turned to the Jewish religion because they were familiar with this religion of their neighbors in the Middle East. Over the centuries, the Jews built expansive trade networks all over the world. They not only had commercial interests, in places they were interested in, but they had family connections as well as intelligence gathering networks. Their big problem was, they were at the mercy of the authorities in whatever land they lived in. They didn't have a country or a military to protect their interests, so they had to look for others to defend them. At one time, the Templars protected them and benefited from the Jew's trading skills.

If you look into it, you will find that the Jesuits were accepting of the Jews and of others with Jewish ancestry. You might also find that some of the early Spanish explorers, in the New World, had Jewish ancestry or secretly practiced the Jewish religion. Some of these ended up in New Mexico, far away from the Inquisitors in Mexico City. It could be that the Jesuits might have also benefited from the commercial skills of the Jews.

That's it in a nutshell, but it's a real interesting subject to study.