Can anyone identify or date this cannon

[Joe hunter]

I’m not sure if anyone has kept track of my cannon search but I’m hoping i have enough pieces to Figure it out now. the length is 43in, if I laid it out correctly.
It has a 2in bore .I’m going to do my best to respond promptly to any questions.Thanks

 

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[ARC]

I can’t say for sure that didn’t happen as we have lots of rowdy people around here.That being said I think( judging by what I have)this will weigh 250-300lbs and it’s up hill.Just a highly unlikely place to do it if you know the area.

Um... as far as a hill is concerned... a hill is always the best place to be... be it in battle... or even just wanting / trying to fire the damn thing.

In battle its an advantage... and just "seeing"... the hill would in most cases of "choice of best place to do it"... would more than likely take first place.... logically thinking anyway.

I remember when I was young... and the rowdy bunches I knew... THE HILL !!! would have definitely been the challenge. heh

 

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[Joe hunter]

Um... as far as a hill is concerned... a hill is always the best place to be... be it in battle... or even just wanting / trying to fire the damn thing.

In battle its an advantage... and just "seeing"... the hill would in most cases of "choice of best place to do it"... would more than likely take first place.... logically thinking anyway.

I remember when I was young... and the rowdy bunches I knew... THE HILL !!! would have definitely been the challenge. heh

I’m not saying it’s old like when you were young,
You know just kinda old.

 

[ARC]

search these....cannon repros...
https://www.google.com/search?q=Can...4Dw&bih=722&biw=1536&rlz=1C1SQJL_enUS844US844

one thing i notice is they do not seem do be "crude" looking...the hardware, the bolts and such. Your bolts seem pretty old in style and fit.

Well that's the thing... many of the repops... and believe me there are ALOT... are done correctly down to the bolts sometimes.

Besides... to "sell them well" they have to look the part.

I have seen some where I am almost stumped as to authenticity... but there is always something ... even a small detail... that will give them away.

Generally ... I am a "hands on" guy... I gotta see it up close... feel it... smell it... TASTE IT if I have to.

Just so you know...

I practice this technique VERY WELL with...

Rum.

:P

 

[ARC]

I’m not saying it’s old like when you were young,
You know just kinda old.

I still am young to some degree...

Mentally especially

 

[Joe hunter]

I still am young to some degree...

Mentally especially

I agree so please prove I have a cannon.[emoji120]🙂

 

[ARC]

I agree so please prove I have a cannon.[emoji120]��

Sheesh man... any fool can see you have a cannon.... I mean the pictures don't lie.

The question has never been IF you found a cannon.... for we can plainly see... you definitely found a cannon.

The question now is... and for me...always has been... WHAT KIND of cannon.

heh



I know.. I know... you wanna know IF its a "real" cannon... Well sure it is... its real... you can touch it cant ya :P

Ok.. Ok...

You want to know IF its a REAL cannon that was used for something... Well I know it was used to be a cannon so far :P

Brother Joe...

You have definitely found a cannon... That part of the story will never change.

And now that I think of it... I vote banner find... EVEN at its true unknown use.

For let me tell ya...

I don't thik many here can say... "I found a cannon" ... no matter what kind.

 

[ARC]

PS./..

This find rocks... simply for the thread discussion and mystery alone it rocks.

Remember... its not just the finds... but the ride that goes with em.

 

[Joe hunter]

Well that's the thing... many of the repops... and believe me there are ALOT... are done correctly down to the bolts sometimes.

Besides... to sell them WELL they have to look the part.

I have seen some where I am almost stumped as to authenticity... but there is always something ... even a small detail... that will give them away.

Generally ... I am a "hands on" guy... I gotta see it up close... feel it... smell it... TASTE IT if I have to.

Just so you know...

I practice this technique VERY WELL with...

Rum.

:P

That’s why I have a hard time thinking it could be anything other than real.I’m digging the shards out of the dirt roots and rocks,the pieces looking like they’ve been swallowed by the earth for eternity.
To me i can pretty much tell where the main impact took place when I’m holding it and trying to piece things together.
When I’m on the hill I can picture them lying in wait for the enemy to pass below on this trail View attachment 1885918and yes that trail is at the bottom of the hill.And I wish you could come here because to me this cannon blows rum away.(blows it away [emoji23])

 

[GoDeep]

Were they making cheap cast lawn ornament reproductions in the US 200-300 years ago? Most didn't even have enough money to lose even pocket change and the wealthy, well, they could have had a real cannon during that era and the wealthy likely had very ornate cannons adorned with decorations and usually out of brass and bronze, this is a very "simple" cannon. A cheap reproduction wouldn't hand forge the bits and pieces, it would be cost prohibitive (well, maybe a chinese made one...lol) .

Do you have some close ups of the pieces, such as the straps, nuts and bolts, i'm betting they are hand forged. Also, Measure the nuts and shanks, see if they vary in diameter side to side and up the shaft. Are the threads hand rolled or machine made? Close ups of the threads would help too.

 

[GoDeep]

You said it's a 2" bore, that is consistent with the british one pounder, which had a 2" bore and there were many different variations of it.

Here's a guy who took what he thinks was a naval gun , presumably a one pounder, bored it out oversize and inserted a modern steel liner in it so they could fire it. The barrel is 39", consistent with yours. He too says there is no markings on the barrel.

https://www.gunsamerica.com/972726717/2-inch-bore-field-cannon.htm

 

[GoDeep]

Heres another smaller cannon like yours, a Woodruff 2 pounder from the civil war era, it lacks much ribbing around the barrel much like yours:

Click to enlarge:

 

[GoDeep]

Here's a full size reproduction one pounder with a 34" barrel , note though, even though the hardware is fashioned to look old, it is extremely uniform in size and finish. Your hardware is not uniform. Look at your nuts, no not those nuts, your cannon nuts, they aren't uniform or square.

https://www.castcannons.co.uk/1-pounder/

 

[Joe hunter]

Thank you all and good night [emoji99]

 

[ARC]

Were they making cheap cast lawn ornament reproductions in the US 200-300 years ago? Most didn't even have enough money to lose even pocket change and the wealthy, well, they could have had a real cannon during that era and the wealthy likely had very ornate cannons adorned with decorations and usually out of brass and bronze, this is a very "simple" cannon. A cheap reproduction wouldn't hand forge the bits and pieces, it would be cost prohibitive (well, maybe a chinese made one...lol) .

Do you have some close ups of the pieces, such as the straps, nuts and bolts, i'm betting they are hand forged. Also, Measure the nuts and shanks, see if they vary in diameter side to side and up the shaft. Are the threads hand rolled or machine made? Close ups of the threads would help too.

? ? ?

Yes... reproductions have been made 200-300 years ago.

Yes... even TOY cannon were made... WITH ALL details... FROM ALL types of mediums.... iron... brass... bronze... from 1 inch to full size... AND THEY WORKED

NO... wealthy were not the only owners / buyers of "cannon".

There is no such thing as a "cheap cannon lawn ornament"... unless your at a garage or yard sale these days.... and even a cannon lawn ornament TODAY isn't "cheap".

This IS THE simplest of ALL cannon design and construction and would have been affordable across the board.

Um...and finally... yep... repops have been and are hand forged by companies... even today

 

[ARC]

You said it's a 2" bore, that is consistent with the british one pounder, which had a 2" bore and there were many different variations of it.

Here's a guy who took what he thinks was a naval gun , presumably a one pounder, bored it out oversize and inserted a modern steel liner in it so they could fire it. The barrel is 39", consistent with yours. He too says there is no markings on the barrel.

https://www.gunsamerica.com/972726717/2-inch-bore-field-cannon.htm

This is NOTHING like Joes find.... and AGAIN... Seems you are not reading the thread... or at least my posts... which I am not quite sure why not...

in case you don't read the threads... its NOT British.... ITS NOT French.

British sizes = 4... 6... 9... 12... 18... 24... 32................. and 42 pounds

39 inches IS NOT consistent with 4 foot last time I checked.

And... this link and info. ? ? ?

 

[ARC]

Here's a full size reproduction one pounder with a 34" barrel , note though, even though the hardware is fashioned to look old, it is extremely uniform in size and finish. Your hardware is not uniform. Look at your nuts, no not those nuts, your cannon nuts, they aren't uniform or square.

https://www.castcannons.co.uk/1-pounder/

Again... not sure why posted.

And cannon repop companies are everywhere.

 

[ARC]

Heres another smaller cannon like yours, a Woodruff 2 pounder from the civil war era, it lacks much ribbing around the barrel much like yours:

Click to enlarge:
View attachment 1886033

Again... not similar... and its not "ribbing"... they are "reinforcement rings"... and ALL antique REAL cannon have them.

IF you are going to try and help solve a users find such as this... Get your facts straight man before posting.

Your just junking up the thread with tons of posts that are off track and based on your imagination.

You really should read an experts opinions... LIKE MINE. (sheesh)

AND...

Whilst on the subject of reinforcement rings...

It was the LACK OF THEM that says Joes cannon find is NOT a real cannon...AND EVEN IF IT IS / WAS REAL... The reason we are looking at "chunks" of metal.

This was the first "red flag" as to authenticity.

Not to mention the bore size... length.. and the overall POOR construction.

 

[ARC]

Ok... just so we can "move on" from anyone else thinking this is a British cannon...

I will just leave these FACTS in your minds.

1. They MASTERED cannon manufacture... they would have NEVER produced this.

2. They used the BEST manufactures and materials WITHOUT compromise and produced SOME OF THE best cannon in the world.

3. They were NO "cut corners" or "inferior guns" concerning materials and composition.

4. Only swivels had a smaller bore / shot... and this is NOT a swivel that has been carriage mounted.

5. It was required that ALL cannon were tested completely before allowed into service.

6. Testing and manufacturer "proof" marks MUST be added and was required before allowed into service.

7. Marks were required to be clearly visible at all times of use.


I will stop here... since I felt 3 of these would absolutely rule British cannon completely out of the stratosphere.



PS>. I will just give one reason its not French.

No handles. heh

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

What an amazing historical find.

I've done a lot of detecting in Kingston, ON across the lake from Watertown, NY.
The amount of War of 1812 history in your area is incredible Joe.

Hope you're able to get a positive I.D. on your find.
Dave

 

[releventchair]

When cannons are mentioned , I am reminded of Bannerman's. Where some cannon were alleged left when dropped in the river.
Bannermans castle was a place most of us would have had a great time browsing military (and who knows what) stuff from wherever it could be sourced.
No , I'm not saying our O.P. 's find has anything to do with Bannermans.
Only that cannon from around the world could in theory be here, from multiple sources.

Also when on the subject of being able to buy cannon (we can still today) there is the yes indeedy do not load modern powder in old iron cannons lest they fragment or relieve the pressure in a harmful to the cannon way..

Then finally to the subject of the O.P..
Context.
Proof testing a barrel needs no carriage. Nor location beyond the foundry , depending on foundry location of course.

When the site is the military crest of a hill not in a populated area (at the time of cannon ka-boom) , and above a known (at the time) trail/travel route where cannon position fits the context of use by military force, we can speculate further that it was not kids swiping a lawn ornament and the wrong powder.

So how to blow a barrel? And why? When captured cannon were prized and some traded back and forth when captured?

Pressure. Which is worse , a double charge of powder, or double projectile/ load of projectiles?
Resistance to pressure creates more pressure.
More projectile mass/tightness/weight causes (in theory) more resistance than more powder creates. Within the realm of reasonable (per tolerance of design) powder charges.
Too , excess powder does not assure it burns entirely , IF projectile allows any blow by (unlikely to be assured) or projectile scoots out ahead of tolerable (to spec. measure) powder burning pressure as it should.

My very wild guess?
A double load. (Loaded twice. Through confusion, excitement or inexperienced hands, or just plain ooops.)
In normal practice cannon (artillery trained ) use was a careful practice.
A cannon with a load/charge in it already could be easily determined.
During war when deaf/ears ringing and cranked up emotion and adrenaline and stunned from concussion is where mishaps can occur.
Men are down , others less trained of going through standard process under an excited state (load the danged thing and touch it off !) take to trying to use the piece.

I'm not on the recovery site....
I'd be interested in if Galloper guns fit the era. As they may the site . And if so , where were they sourced from? Then , how do bores of what was reasonably (or better yet documented to have been) available to whomever was participating; compare to our O.P.'s cannon ?