California Court Threatens to Reopen Rivers to Destructive Suction Dredge Mining..LOL
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Oakview2
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Hold your breath till you turn blue and kick your feet. We are coming after your wallet next.
Jim in Idaho
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No offense, but why did you use their propaganda headline as the title to your thread? Just gives them more publicity. I can see the next headline...
"Even Treasure Hunters Think Dredging is Bad"
Jim
"Even Treasure Hunters Think Dredging is Bad"
Jim
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I knew it was sarcasm.......
"continuation of genocidal legacy".......wow now miners are killing people en mass!!!!!! sheesh
"well documented" ha obviously the judge would disagree ha ha ha ha
"continuation of genocidal legacy".......wow now miners are killing people en mass!!!!!! sheesh
"well documented" ha obviously the judge would disagree ha ha ha ha
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jvan
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Jim because I am not going to change their title, and wanted others to see their pouting words, I really do not see a problem with this. I do not see me posting their headline as something that would make the public think Treasure Hunters think dredging is bad.... Can't we all just get along?
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jvan
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Your right winners58, if anyone can put together a Press Release I can get it distributed out on hundreds of news feed sites, as this is what I do for a living for clients.... Just a thought!
Jim in Idaho
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So did I....my concern was with visitors to this site who may not be prospectors, or treasure hunters, etc. Often, it takes only a glance at a headline to form an opinion....especially by the "low information" individual.
Jim
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We need to fight the lies and this type of propaganda with truth! Is there any group that can rebut these type of articles by the Center For Biological Diversity, the Sierra Fund and the rest of the enviro wackos. Creating a factual and historical article for press release that documents the truth of the matter and challenges the outright lies of these enviro groups. Their press releases gain wide acceptance for publication in the mass media outlets such as newspapers, television news organizations and the like.
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theseeker
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jvan, you are the man!
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jvan
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Like I said if anyone that knows how to write a well written press release on the topic, I can get it distributed and picked up by many cal local news sites... Can only help, as the other side is doing the same thing right now...
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Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends!!!!! Emerson, Lake and Palmer
Once again they show their true colors at the CBD. Yet another release from them full of lies and propaganda. We can only hope that the American public is smart enough to see this release for what it is. If nothing else maybe a few people will become interested in the fight and research the truth for themselves. Here's a little something to get those interested in the TRUTH started.....
Center for Biological Diversity
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For Immediate Release, January 13, 2015
Contact: Jonathan Evans, Center for Biological Diversity, (415) 436-9682 x 318
Craig Tucker, Karuk Tribe, (916) 207-8294
Steve Evans, Friends of the River, (916) 708-3155
California Court Threatens to Reopen Rivers to Destructive Suction Dredge Mining
Damaging Practice Would Harm Waterways, Wildlife, Cultural Resources
SAN BERNARDINO, Calif.— A coalition fighting highly destructive suction dredge mining is considering further legal options after a state judge ruled that a California law banning the practice is preempted by federal law. The California Supreme Court is also considering whether to take up the legal issues surrounding the state law, designed to minimize mercury pollution and damage to wildlife, waterways and cultural resources caused by suction dredge mining.
Well first off the reason for the ruling was about California requiring permits and then not issuing them. This prevented miners from working their claims which is a right granted by congress.
Monday’s court ruling could end a moratorium on suction dredge mining enacted in 2009 by Gov. Schwarzenegger and affirmed in 2012 by Gov. Brown. Before rivers could be reopened to the controversial mining practice the California constitution requires a decision affirming the ruling this week from an appellate court.
In a strictly legal sense, the moratorium was against the law (at both state and federal levels) and never should have been put in place to begin with. This decision only reverses an action that never should have been taken in the first place
“This decision has grave implications for Californians’ ability to protect our own waterways, wildlife and cultural resources from destructive mining,” said Jonathan Evans, toxics and endangered species campaign director at the Center for Biological Diversity. “Our citizens have the right to safeguard the health of their families and the waterways we all depend on from a clearly known harm.”
Destructive mining? What do these people think dredging is? Hydraulic mining? A small scale dredge like the ones used can operate for years and still move LESS earth than what Mother Nature will move in a single storm. "Clearly known harm" you say? How can a mining process that removes toxic lead and mercury from our water ways as while improving spawning areas for endangered fish be considered as harmful? Let's keep the facts straight here CBD!
Suction dredge mining uses machines to vacuum up gravel and sand from streams and river bottoms in search of gold. California law prohibited in-stream suction dredge mining until the state developed regulations that pay for the program and protect water quality, wildlife and cultural resources. The California Department of Fish and Wildlife has not completed those regulations.
"Pay for the program"? Hummm How can there be a program when they have failed to even work on the regulations? Considering that suction dredging simply lifts materials off of the bottom of the stream or river, removes gold, lead and mercury then puts the remaining materials right back where they came from there is zero ADDED pollution. This also serves to loosen the stream/river bed which improves the habitat for fish spawning. Also, to the best of my knowledge, no cultural artifacts have ever been found by dredgers.
"With this extraordinarily bad decision, it could be open season on California's rivers with the mistaken idea that the state does not have the authority to prevent water pollution and the destruction of endangered fish and wildlife species," said Steve Evans, wild rivers consultant for Friends of the River.
California miners do not pollute the waters they work in. In fact, they actually remove the majority of heavy metal pollutants from the areas that they work in. What strikes me as funny is that the same groups want to charge the tax payers billions of dollars to remove mercury (as well as gold by their own admission) when the miners of the state are willing to do it for FREE! Now if you could get your car fixed for free instead of having to pay some overpriced grease monkey to do it, wouldn't you take that option? The methods proposed by the green groups is less effective in mercury recovery that your typical suction dredge in the hands of a miner. So you get a better job done and it doesn't cost you (the tax payers) a thing. In fact, the State actually MAKES money from the permitting fees.
The harm done by suction dredging is well documented by scientists and government agencies. It harms state water supplies by suspending toxic mercury, sediment and heavy metals. The Environmental Protection Agency and State Water Resources Control Board urged a complete ban on suction dredge mining because of its significant impacts on water quality and wildlife from mercury pollution.
"Documented"? Since it's been PROVEN that the testing that was done to provide these agencies with "facts" to base these decisions on were biased, not done in a truly scientific manner and much of the data was not included in these reports, how can any agency make an informed decision to start with? No matter what, a scientific fact is the same for everyone. Just because the facts do not happen to further your own agenda, does not make them any less factual.
“Suction dredging is a continuation of the genocidal legacy of gold miners that started over 150 years ago. We will continue the fight to protect our cultural and natural resources,” said Karuk Director of Natural Resources Leaf Hillman. “In our view this issue is far from resolved.”
"Genocidal legacy?" Now they're trying to make miners look like Adolf Hitler or something. Miners don't kill people. In fact the work of miners provides the materials for modern living. Miners clean toxins from our streams and rivers so they IMPROVE water quality for the rest of the population. To compare modern miners to those of the old days of hydraulic mining practices is like saying that apples and oranges are the same. Of course to their view the issue is not resolved. They didn't get the outcome that THEY wanted.
Suction dredge mining threatens important cultural resources and sensitive wildlife species. The California Native American Heritage Commission has condemned suction dredge mining’s impacts on priceless tribal and archeological resources. It destroys sensitive habitat for important and imperiled wildlife, including salmon and steelhead trout, California red-legged frogs and sensitive migratory songbirds.
Once again they've got it wrong! I wonder if the person that typed this up for the CBD got as tired of repeating themselves as I've become. The only difference I see in this paragraph is the mention of migratory songbirds. I've never seen one of those on the bottom of a stream or river so how can suction dredging harm them? Please supply scientific FACTS to support this statement as we may have a new species here!
Background
A coalition of tribal, conservation and fisheries groups have been seeking to uphold California’s laws regulating suction dredge mining. This coalition includes the Center for Biological Diversity, the Karuk tribe, Pacific Coast Federation of Fishermen’s Associations, Institute for Fisheries Resources, Friends of the River, California Sportfishing Protection Alliance, Foothills Anglers Association, North Fork American River Alliance, Upper American River Foundation, Central Sierra Environmental Resource Center, Environmental Law Foundation and Klamath Riverkeeper. The coalition is represented by Lynne Saxton of Saxton & Associates, a water-quality and toxics-enforcement law firm.
The Center for Biological Diversity is a national, nonprofit conservation organization with more than 800,000 members and online activists dedicated to the protection of endangered species and wild places.
Center for Biological Diversity
Hummm With that many members, (much more than the total number of California suction dredgers) why is it that they resort to having their legal costs for these actions paid for by the American tax payers through the EAJA system? The majority of the miners have to rely on contributions from other miners to pay for their legal costs. Nonprofit? Check out what their board members make a year and tell me they're not profiting big time.
Friends of the River protects and restores California rivers by influencing public policy and inspiring citizen action. With more than 5,000 members, Friends of the River is California’s statewide river conservation organization.
Friends of the River - The voice of California's rivers
While I'm not too familiar with this group and their business practices, I'd still be willing to bet that miners have removed more trash, Mercury and other toxins from the waterways of the state than this group ever has. Miners work in areas that are much more remote than the majority of these groups ever stage their "clean-up days" in so of course there is no news coverage of their efforts.
The Karuk Tribe is the second largest federally recognized Indian Tribe in California. The Karuk have been in conflict with gold miners since 1850. Karuk territory is along the middle Klamath and Salmon Rivers.
Karuk Tribe
I will refrain from making any comments on this tribes actions over the last ten years here as I also have Native American blood in my veins. Still, anyone that wants to really learn about their actions only has to browse the web to get educated.
So as you can see, this is yet another attempt to mislead the American Public through lies and propaganda. The American public and our justice system needs to remove the rose colored glasses that have been put over their eyes by these groups and face facts. These groups have their own agendas and they are not in the interest of the general population of our country. It' is a basic fact that if it's not grown, it's mined! Without miners we would not have ANY of the modern items that we enjoy. These green groups seem to want everyone in the world to revert back to the stone age. I for one enjoy our life style that we have thanks to mining and I am far from ready to give it up to suit their agenda what ever it may be.
Once again they show their true colors at the CBD. Yet another release from them full of lies and propaganda. We can only hope that the American public is smart enough to see this release for what it is. If nothing else maybe a few people will become interested in the fight and research the truth for themselves. Here's a little something to get those interested in the TRUTH started.....
Center for Biological Diversity
Bookmark and Share
E-mail this page
More press releases
For Immediate Release, January 13, 2015
Contact: Jonathan Evans, Center for Biological Diversity, (415) 436-9682 x 318
Craig Tucker, Karuk Tribe, (916) 207-8294
Steve Evans, Friends of the River, (916) 708-3155
California Court Threatens to Reopen Rivers to Destructive Suction Dredge Mining
Damaging Practice Would Harm Waterways, Wildlife, Cultural Resources
SAN BERNARDINO, Calif.— A coalition fighting highly destructive suction dredge mining is considering further legal options after a state judge ruled that a California law banning the practice is preempted by federal law. The California Supreme Court is also considering whether to take up the legal issues surrounding the state law, designed to minimize mercury pollution and damage to wildlife, waterways and cultural resources caused by suction dredge mining.
Well first off the reason for the ruling was about California requiring permits and then not issuing them. This prevented miners from working their claims which is a right granted by congress.
Monday’s court ruling could end a moratorium on suction dredge mining enacted in 2009 by Gov. Schwarzenegger and affirmed in 2012 by Gov. Brown. Before rivers could be reopened to the controversial mining practice the California constitution requires a decision affirming the ruling this week from an appellate court.
In a strictly legal sense, the moratorium was against the law (at both state and federal levels) and never should have been put in place to begin with. This decision only reverses an action that never should have been taken in the first place
“This decision has grave implications for Californians’ ability to protect our own waterways, wildlife and cultural resources from destructive mining,” said Jonathan Evans, toxics and endangered species campaign director at the Center for Biological Diversity. “Our citizens have the right to safeguard the health of their families and the waterways we all depend on from a clearly known harm.”
Destructive mining? What do these people think dredging is? Hydraulic mining? A small scale dredge like the ones used can operate for years and still move LESS earth than what Mother Nature will move in a single storm. "Clearly known harm" you say? How can a mining process that removes toxic lead and mercury from our water ways as while improving spawning areas for endangered fish be considered as harmful? Let's keep the facts straight here CBD!
Suction dredge mining uses machines to vacuum up gravel and sand from streams and river bottoms in search of gold. California law prohibited in-stream suction dredge mining until the state developed regulations that pay for the program and protect water quality, wildlife and cultural resources. The California Department of Fish and Wildlife has not completed those regulations.
"Pay for the program"? Hummm How can there be a program when they have failed to even work on the regulations? Considering that suction dredging simply lifts materials off of the bottom of the stream or river, removes gold, lead and mercury then puts the remaining materials right back where they came from there is zero ADDED pollution. This also serves to loosen the stream/river bed which improves the habitat for fish spawning. Also, to the best of my knowledge, no cultural artifacts have ever been found by dredgers.
"With this extraordinarily bad decision, it could be open season on California's rivers with the mistaken idea that the state does not have the authority to prevent water pollution and the destruction of endangered fish and wildlife species," said Steve Evans, wild rivers consultant for Friends of the River.
California miners do not pollute the waters they work in. In fact, they actually remove the majority of heavy metal pollutants from the areas that they work in. What strikes me as funny is that the same groups want to charge the tax payers billions of dollars to remove mercury (as well as gold by their own admission) when the miners of the state are willing to do it for FREE! Now if you could get your car fixed for free instead of having to pay some overpriced grease monkey to do it, wouldn't you take that option? The methods proposed by the green groups is less effective in mercury recovery that your typical suction dredge in the hands of a miner. So you get a better job done and it doesn't cost you (the tax payers) a thing. In fact, the State actually MAKES money from the permitting fees.
The harm done by suction dredging is well documented by scientists and government agencies. It harms state water supplies by suspending toxic mercury, sediment and heavy metals. The Environmental Protection Agency and State Water Resources Control Board urged a complete ban on suction dredge mining because of its significant impacts on water quality and wildlife from mercury pollution.
"Documented"? Since it's been PROVEN that the testing that was done to provide these agencies with "facts" to base these decisions on were biased, not done in a truly scientific manner and much of the data was not included in these reports, how can any agency make an informed decision to start with? No matter what, a scientific fact is the same for everyone. Just because the facts do not happen to further your own agenda, does not make them any less factual.
“Suction dredging is a continuation of the genocidal legacy of gold miners that started over 150 years ago. We will continue the fight to protect our cultural and natural resources,” said Karuk Director of Natural Resources Leaf Hillman. “In our view this issue is far from resolved.”
"Genocidal legacy?" Now they're trying to make miners look like Adolf Hitler or something. Miners don't kill people. In fact the work of miners provides the materials for modern living. Miners clean toxins from our streams and rivers so they IMPROVE water quality for the rest of the population. To compare modern miners to those of the old days of hydraulic mining practices is like saying that apples and oranges are the same. Of course to their view the issue is not resolved. They didn't get the outcome that THEY wanted.
Suction dredge mining threatens important cultural resources and sensitive wildlife species. The California Native American Heritage Commission has condemned suction dredge mining’s impacts on priceless tribal and archeological resources. It destroys sensitive habitat for important and imperiled wildlife, including salmon and steelhead trout, California red-legged frogs and sensitive migratory songbirds.
Once again they've got it wrong! I wonder if the person that typed this up for the CBD got as tired of repeating themselves as I've become. The only difference I see in this paragraph is the mention of migratory songbirds. I've never seen one of those on the bottom of a stream or river so how can suction dredging harm them? Please supply scientific FACTS to support this statement as we may have a new species here!
Background
A coalition of tribal, conservation and fisheries groups have been seeking to uphold California’s laws regulating suction dredge mining. This coalition includes the Center for Biological Diversity, the Karuk tribe, Pacific Coast Federation of Fishermen’s Associations, Institute for Fisheries Resources, Friends of the River, California Sportfishing Protection Alliance, Foothills Anglers Association, North Fork American River Alliance, Upper American River Foundation, Central Sierra Environmental Resource Center, Environmental Law Foundation and Klamath Riverkeeper. The coalition is represented by Lynne Saxton of Saxton & Associates, a water-quality and toxics-enforcement law firm.
The Center for Biological Diversity is a national, nonprofit conservation organization with more than 800,000 members and online activists dedicated to the protection of endangered species and wild places.
Center for Biological Diversity
Hummm With that many members, (much more than the total number of California suction dredgers) why is it that they resort to having their legal costs for these actions paid for by the American tax payers through the EAJA system? The majority of the miners have to rely on contributions from other miners to pay for their legal costs. Nonprofit? Check out what their board members make a year and tell me they're not profiting big time.
Friends of the River protects and restores California rivers by influencing public policy and inspiring citizen action. With more than 5,000 members, Friends of the River is California’s statewide river conservation organization.
Friends of the River - The voice of California's rivers
While I'm not too familiar with this group and their business practices, I'd still be willing to bet that miners have removed more trash, Mercury and other toxins from the waterways of the state than this group ever has. Miners work in areas that are much more remote than the majority of these groups ever stage their "clean-up days" in so of course there is no news coverage of their efforts.
The Karuk Tribe is the second largest federally recognized Indian Tribe in California. The Karuk have been in conflict with gold miners since 1850. Karuk territory is along the middle Klamath and Salmon Rivers.
Karuk Tribe
I will refrain from making any comments on this tribes actions over the last ten years here as I also have Native American blood in my veins. Still, anyone that wants to really learn about their actions only has to browse the web to get educated.
So as you can see, this is yet another attempt to mislead the American Public through lies and propaganda. The American public and our justice system needs to remove the rose colored glasses that have been put over their eyes by these groups and face facts. These groups have their own agendas and they are not in the interest of the general population of our country. It' is a basic fact that if it's not grown, it's mined! Without miners we would not have ANY of the modern items that we enjoy. These green groups seem to want everyone in the world to revert back to the stone age. I for one enjoy our life style that we have thanks to mining and I am far from ready to give it up to suit their agenda what ever it may be.
Hard Prospector
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The LA Times is no friend of miners for sure(or the rights of hunters, fisherman, off-road enthusiasts, ranchers etc...etc...etc)
spaghettigold
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maybe a paid counter notification
ratled
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No, no, no dredging for gold and mercury is good...... it's the rat ******* miner who get only 98% of the mercury are bad...not like the do gooders who get less than 95%.
The environuts even say so and are in the dredge for mercury and gold business........in CA... making a mint in gold
http://reclaimingthesierra.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Multiple_Benefits_E3_IssuePaper_v1_10.29.14.pdf
So it has to be good right?
ratled
The environuts even say so and are in the dredge for mercury and gold business........in CA... making a mint in gold
http://reclaimingthesierra.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Multiple_Benefits_E3_IssuePaper_v1_10.29.14.pdf
So it has to be good right?
ratled
theseeker
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The following is a perfect example of the enviros and the state of CA. propaganda. According to excerpts from news publications, the state in partnership with environmental groups advocate dredging for mercury removal costing taxpayers millions of $$$. At the same time the state and enviro groups have fought against miners doing the same thing for free. "With a key state approval in place, a dredging project on Combie Reservoir to remove a toxic legacy of mercury from the area’s gold-mining past is in full swing. The $6.9 million program over two years will siphon off an estimated 50 to 150 pounds of mercury from Combie Reservoir in Meadow Vista. The Nevada Irrigation District is working with the Sierra Nevada Conservancy and other partners on this project to dredge an area on the upstream side of Combie Reservoir and extract some of the mercury during the process. " So to analyze this situation, if the enviro groups dredge costing taxpayers millions, it's good thing. If miners dredge and remove mercury for free the enviro groups cry genocide!!! I hear ya ratled! Wake up sheeple!!!!
Bejay
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The mistake one makes is assuming that there is any real logic based on supported facts by the "anti crowd".
First fact that should be realized is they see dredging as something they think is not good; and they don't like it.
Next fact is they want to support their concept of: "it must be bad".
Next fact is: Now they try to justify their belief/concept.
Next fact is: They concoct as much fear of potential harm they can think of to support their belief/concept.
Next fact is: They find potential "things" to support their position.
Next fact is: They use the projection of a "possible harm" and "any thing possible" to file a Law Suit.
Next fact is: They try to win. To win one uses any and all potential things they can to win.
Next fact is: In trying to win they find a way to make money.
Next fact is: as long as they are proving a "good" all else fails to matter.
Now we know all the facts. So once a statement of "it is bad" is made they will stop at no means to achieve the "positive" of their position. Unless "money" and the word "good" can come into the same sentence.
Once we understand the facts : it all becomes pretty clear. Hard to argue with the facts.
See how easy it was to come to grips with their approach. It is all about them. They are the "do gooders"! "Do Gooders" have all the justification in the world for their actions.
Just one mans opinion. But I have been dealing with these "do gooders" for a long time; on a lot of different issues!
Bejay
First fact that should be realized is they see dredging as something they think is not good; and they don't like it.
Next fact is they want to support their concept of: "it must be bad".
Next fact is: Now they try to justify their belief/concept.
Next fact is: They concoct as much fear of potential harm they can think of to support their belief/concept.
Next fact is: They find potential "things" to support their position.
Next fact is: They use the projection of a "possible harm" and "any thing possible" to file a Law Suit.
Next fact is: They try to win. To win one uses any and all potential things they can to win.
Next fact is: In trying to win they find a way to make money.
Next fact is: as long as they are proving a "good" all else fails to matter.
Now we know all the facts. So once a statement of "it is bad" is made they will stop at no means to achieve the "positive" of their position. Unless "money" and the word "good" can come into the same sentence.
Once we understand the facts : it all becomes pretty clear. Hard to argue with the facts.
See how easy it was to come to grips with their approach. It is all about them. They are the "do gooders"! "Do Gooders" have all the justification in the world for their actions.
Just one mans opinion. But I have been dealing with these "do gooders" for a long time; on a lot of different issues!
Bejay
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Then let's not forget the root of the ban in the first place. Miners were finding outlaw Karuk marijuana farms on their mining claims and these few outlaw Karuk were not liking having the miners able to use their own land when the Karuk just wanted to supply dope to the region...
Here's a good article with lots of good links for those who haven't been in this fight from the beginning or need some background info. There is a lot online that has come of this over the years.
Barry R. Clausen -- Environmentalists Control California’s Karuk Tribe
Here's a good article with lots of good links for those who haven't been in this fight from the beginning or need some background info. There is a lot online that has come of this over the years.
Barry R. Clausen -- Environmentalists Control California’s Karuk Tribe
Rdg Sluicer
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I think the correct spelling is Crook Tribe!!!!
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