Bronze pendant, found at 18" Help IDing

[Danimal]

Bronze pendant, found at 18" Help IDing

My arm was up to the elbow with my Lesche fully down when I finally got deep enough for my pinpointer to sound off. This was in a very compacted, mineralized soil matrix. Wheat pennies are found here at 6" often.

Under a loupe, what at first appears to be a battleaxe looks like an stylized bird. The pendant appears to be bronze, is quite heavy, and has no casting marks around the edge, and shows clear working marks so it seems to be carved in metal, not cast.

This was found in NE Ohio.

Any ideas?

 

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[downindixie]

Re: Bronze pendant, found at 18" Help IDing

A very neat find.Requires a lot of research I would imagine!

 

[Southernhunter]

Re: Bronze pendant, found at 18" Help IDing

Very nice find.
I'm curious if the ax depicted on the metal is consistent with indigenous American design? It seems more of a Nordic or Slavic style.

 

[Danimal]

Re: Bronze pendant, found at 18" Help IDing

Very nice find.
I'm curious if the ax depicted on the metal is consistent with indigenous American design? It seems more of a Nordic or Slavic style.

At first, it appeared to be a typical labrys, but upon closer examination, there appears to be feathers engraved into the sides, making me think thisisn't an axe, but a stylized bird.

Here's a bit closer pic, also showing the natural color

 

[DJ_Quinn]

Re: Bronze pendant, found at 18" Help IDing

What a fascinating find! You need to have that looked at by a specialist. It appears to be Native American but I would be dying to know more about its origins and history if I were you.

 

[Gypsy Heart]

Re: Bronze pendant, found at 18" Help IDing

If I am looking at this right....The woman seems to be of African descent .....

 

[MiddenMonster]

Re: Bronze pendant, found at 18" Help IDing

Under a loupe, what at first appears to be a battleaxe looks like an stylized bird. The pendant appears to be bronze, is quite heavy, and has no casting marks around the edge, and shows clear working marks so it seems to be carved in metal, not cast.

The bird looks like some of the representations of the phoenix I have seen in Native American designs, such as this one:

Since it's metal, you can be sure it doesn't pre-date Colombus. North American Indians had little experience with metalurgy, which was pretty much restricted to what is now Mexico, and Central America. And then it was only gold and silver. No alloys. As for casting vs. carved, it could have been cast using the lost wax method. An impression of the original art is made with plaster or rubber. Then wax is poured into the impression. After it cools, the impression is removed from the wax and the wax is fitted with a wax pouring cone and dipped in a liquid silica substance so that it is coated. The whole thing is put in a kiln and heated until the wax is vaporized and you are left with a hollow piece of silica with the desired impression on the inside. Molten metal is poured into the funnel to create the final piece of art. Since it is a two-sided piece, and there are no casting marks on it I would doubt that it was a sand casting.

 

[ZipDogg]

Re: Bronze pendant, found at 18" Help IDing

This tag reminds me of coins made in ancient history. Just quessing, it looks like it could have been worn by some kings servant for ID. It does look African. Good luck with research. A company in New York called "Sadigh" sells ancient artifacts and coins. They may ID your tag if you fax them a picture.

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: Bronze pendant, found at 18" Help IDing

Greetings Danimal,
What an interesting find! I must disagree with some of the opinions posted here, being metal does not make it automatically post-Columbus, the Americas have several copper working native cultures as well as the precious metals. If it is bronze, it is NOT Native American, as no Native American culture made bronze - however if this is genuine, it may be solid evidence of ancient visitors to America from the Old World.

At first glance it struck me as very Amazon in appearance, especially the object on the reverse which looks like the double-bitted axe for which Amazon warriors were famous. If the lady on the obverse is a lady, this only reinforces the Amazon appearance of the artifact. At the bottom right are some curious figures, one of which (the 3 looking device) looks like a Hippogrif, a mythical monster of ancient days which was believed to live in the oceans and appears on some ancient coins (especially Phoenician). The Axe or Bird figure on the reverse has a cross-hatched design incised into the metal, which could have been intended to mean feathers or could have been something very different. No bird, for instance, has wings like that. I would suggest that you take this to a university archaeology department and ask them to identify it for you. I have no beef against any dealer in antiquities, but then you are sort of rolling the dice - you cannot be sure that you are getting the whole answer or true value.

The other possibility is that this piece is what they call a "fantasy" piece, made in recent years (up to 200 years ago) for no purpose other than interesting jewelry etc and often incorporated mythical features and heros - and we have strong suggestion of Amazons (until recently believed to have been mythical) and what appears to be a Hippogrif (also mythical) and perhaps a Thunderbird. So not to dampen your hopes too much, but it is possible that this is one of those "Fantasy" pieces made for interesting jewelry.

The site you found it is interesting as well, as at least one Numidian coin dating to the first century BC was found in that area - and Numidia was a North African country - recall that Diodorus in telling the original history of the Amazons seems to place them in what is now S. America, then campaigning across Africa to Greece, then retreating into the vast steppes of Asia where recently tombs and DNA evidence has identified "real" Amazons.

Please keep me posted as to what you find about this artifact? I am a writer and working on a book on ancient explorers in the Americas, and always on the 'lookout' for new finds of ancient coins, jewelry etc in America that "shouldn't" be here. I would appreciate it very much, no matter what it turns out to be.

Thank you for posting your find, very interesting piece and based on the photographs alone, my dollar to the donut bet would be that it is not a fantasy piece. Just an opinion! I am jealous too - wish I could find something like that!

Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

[Smithbrown]

Re: Bronze pendant, found at 18" Help IDing

Oroblanco is write- modern piece inspired by ancient art, but it is based on Minoan Crete motifs. The axe is the double axe of Knossos and the male figure is based on the fresco there.

http://home.millsaps.edu/freiscr/Greek Legacy Field Study/Knossos Prince.jpg

Smithbrown

 

[Danimal]

Re: Bronze pendant, found at 18" Help IDing

by "modern piece", what exactly are we referring to as to it's age?

You nailed the source of the artwork it appears. Many details from that fresco.


It's obviously a Knossos "Prince of the Lilies" relief pendant, with a Labrys double sided axe, which was the Minoan symbol of female fertility.
It has been suggested on another site that this may be a "fantasy" pc, not an original, and even then may date back several hundred years.
My question now remains, just how old is this?
If a fantasy piece, who made it and what is it's value?
Is it authentic?
If authentic, how did it end up in NE Ohio?
The soil where it was found may NOT be original soil. There are indicators that it was fill soil brought in from a riverbed during the 1930s. Even THEN, I doubt the soil came from somewhere other than Ohio.
My research-time available is limited. I appreciate any and all help answering thse questions.

 

[Smithbrown]

Re: Bronze pendant, found at 18" Help IDing

There are many others on this forum who are much better than me on identification of jewellry and I will await their thoughts with interest.

However there are a couple of things about it that make me think it is not Minoan but modern

The first is the shape of the pendant- This is not a shape you find in Cretan art objects- they tend to be round or oval rather than rhomboid.

The other is the use of the motifs- the figure is only the top half of the body - if you look at examples of Cretan art, they usually depict the human form in full length.

My instinct would be the pendant dates from the about the 1960s when Crete was becoming a fashionable place to holiday in, and knowledge of Minoan art began to spread. And people began reading Mary Renault's Bull from the Sea series

 

[EDDE]

Re: Bronze pendant, found at 18" Help IDing

back in the day before modern roads
the waterways were the highways of trade etc
this was prolly scooped up in the fill dirt off a river bank or a gravel bar
that was used at this site for back fill

 

[Smithbrown]

Re: Bronze pendant, found at 18" Help IDing

It can't be hundreds of years old since Sir Arthur Evans only began excavating at Knossos in 1900. Minoan civilization was lost till then.

http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/information/biography/abcde/evans_arthur.html

Smithbrown

 

[Danimal]

Re: Bronze pendant, found at 18" Help IDing

There are many others on this forum who are much better than me on identification of jewellry and I will await their thoughts with interest.

However there are a couple of things about it that make me think it is not Minoan but modern

The first is the shape of the pendant- This is not a shape you find in Cretan art objects- they tend to be round or oval rather than rhomboid.

The other is the use of the motifs- the figure is only the top half of the body - if you look at examples of Cretan art, they usually depict the human form in full length.

My instinct would be the pendant dates from the about the 1960s when Crete was becoming a fashionable place to holiday in, and knowledge of Minoan art began to spread. And people began reading Mary Renault's Bull from the Sea series

I appreciate your time Smithbrown!
If it dates from perhaps the 1960's, shouldn't there be some way of actually identifying it's maker? Or better yet, seeing another respresentative example?
I have done quite a few searches and have found nothing similar.
Also, isn't this shape a trapezoid and not a rhombus? A rhombus has all four sides parallel. (like a tilted square)
Also, it seems from the little reasearch I have done that the trapezoidal form was very important in Ancient Crete mathmatics, and even some early Minoan burial caskets were trapezoidal in shape.

 

[Smithbrown]

Re: Bronze pendant, found at 18" Help IDing

You must be both very young and very rich! An awful lot of costume jewellry from that period has no markings and was done in small quantities- most of the items in my mother's jewellry box was just such stuff and I would not expect to find parrellels for most of them on internet. But I would wait till the jewellry experts wake up and give us some pearls of wisdom.

Yes, Trapezoid- geometry not always my strong point. You'll have to tell me a bit more about ancient Cretan mathematics and trapezoids since it is definitely not a subject I know anything about!

Smithbrown

 

[Danimal]

Re: Bronze pendant, found at 18" Help IDing

You must be both very young and very rich! An awful lot of costume jewellry from that period has no markings and was done in small quantities- most of the items in my mother's jewellry box was just such stuff and I would not expect to find parrellels for most of them on internet. But I would wait till the jewellry experts wake up and give us some pearls of wisdom.

Yes, Trapezoid- geometry not always my strong point. You'll have to tell me a bit more about ancient Cretan mathematics and trapezoids since it is definitely not a subject I know anything about!

Smithbrown

Why the attitude?

If you consider 46 yrs old "young" well then yes, I am young.
And by no means rich. Why would my income level have ANYTHING to do with this matter?
Anyone can quickly do a few web searches and see that Minoan society was not unfamiliar with the trapezoid.

 

[Monty]

Re: Bronze pendant, found at 18" Help IDing

I'm with gypsy, looks like African to me. I'm only right about .08% of the time so this may be the kiss of death gypsy! Monty

 

[Danimal]

Re: Bronze pendant, found at 18" Help IDing

closeup of the "Prince of the Lilies"

 

[MiddenMonster]

Re: Bronze pendant, found at 18" Help IDing

What an interesting find! I must disagree with some of the opinions posted here, being metal does not make it automatically post-Columbus, the Americas have several copper working native cultures as well as the precious metals. If it is bronze, it is NOT Native American, as no Native American culture made bronze - however if this is genuine, it may be solid evidence of ancient visitors to America from the Old World.

Yeah, my mistake. My intended point was that metal alloys were not used in the western hemishphere prior to Columbus. I forgot about copper. I still believe the one image is that of a bird, and not an axe. There is also what appears to be a peace sign in the center of that image.