Bronze cannon site

[ARC]

Bronze guns are much older than iron guns. If there were both iron and bronze guns in the same location there could be two different wrecks in that area. For example, here on the Treasure Coast we have an older wreck named the San Martin that sank in 1618 right among the 1715 wrecks of almost a hundred years later. For a time they mistakenly thought it was one of the 1715 ships, but it had bronze guns and the 1715 fleet carried iron guns.

Another possibility is that the guns were used as ballast for a later ship. There is an area off the east side of Bonaire (Dutch Antilles) where Bob Marx found dozens of cannons of all different types and ages. Turned out they were used as ballast for Dutch ships and jettisoned once they took on a full cargo load of salt from the island.

Actually the very first cannon were iron.

 

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[Smithbrown]

French merchant ships would have Swedish cast- iron guns with wrought-iron swivels until the first couple of decades of the 18th century, when they begin their own iron industry in earnest.
Oldest identified cannon are bronze, like the Loshult piece. First technology comes from bell and bronze potfounders.

 

[Magoopeter]

Thanks Smith Brown, cannons are interesting, Wrecking was on the site, he identifies it as 17th century merchant vessel, so I guess unless we go there then it remains a 17th century merchant vessel sunk of the coast of ??

Why would he put this out there, you find wrecks when your young you research the wrecks you left behind when your older and you release you’ve left, something worthwhile behind you?

 

[Magoopeter]

Irelands Oldest Cannon, 1497

 

[ARC]

"Cannon have been known in Japan around 1270 as proto-cannon invented in China, which the Japanese called teppō (鉄砲 lit. "iron cannon")."

 

[Smithbrown]

I was referring to European cannon only- Asian is quite a different kettle of fish.

 

[WRECKING]

I was referring to European cannon only- Asian is quite a different kettle of fish.

All this talk about cannons reminds me of the badly worn cannons from the Atocha. Whatever happened to these cannons?

 

[Magoopeter]

Fisher museum cannon, not unlike yours.

 

[WRECKING]

Fisher museum cannon, not unlike yours.

View attachment 1986229

This one is really nice. I believe there also was one of the Atocha cannons in Seville, at the archives.
What I would like to know what happened the the Atocha bronze cannons that were "left in situ" for too long and worn down by the shifting sands.

 

[ARC]

This one is really nice. I believe there also was one of the Atocha cannons in Seville, at the archives.
What I would like to know what happened the the Atocha bronze cannons that were "left in situ" for too long and worn down by the shifting sands.

Atocha was outfitted with 20 3.4 meter 1,633 kg cannon.... they were all recovered as far as i knew.

This one is really nice. I believe there also was one of the Atocha cannons in Seville, at the archives.
What I would like to know what happened the the Atocha bronze cannons that were "left in situ" for too long and worn down by the shifting sands.

Gun #2499 was given to Queen Sofia by Mel.

AKA gun listed on manifest as 24q99L

 

[WRECKING]

Atocha was outfitted with 20 3.4 meter 1,633 kg cannon.... they were all recovered as far as i knew.

Gun #2499 was given to Queen Sofia by Mel.

AKA gun listed on manifest as 24q99L

Were all 20 cannons recovered and are there pictures of each one?

 

[ARC]

There is much debate on this... i bel;ieve only 4 cannon were recovered by TSI... back when i knew Mel...
the rest may have been recovered later... OR during the initial salvages in the year 1622.. and subsequent years.

I did a little poking and from what i found the only listing for the salvers back then was for the Margarita; guns..
where 4 were recovered inbetween hurricanes ...sometime between sept and oct of 1622...then amother 6 were recovered... big ones....

Then 2 years later in 1624 another salvage recovered some... have to look at old data... but IMO those cannon were sorta "bad luck" for the fleet.... some of them had been redistributed after an accident.

20 were listed.

 

[ARC]

you might enjoy this read...

https://www.melfisher.com/Research_Archives/AtochaMargarita2016-2018PermitRenewalReportv2019-01-14_Redacted.pdf

 

[eyemustdigtreasure]

It does not happen often to find a wreck site with bronze cannon.
Imagine, you are on the way to a new location. You know that you will pass near several very interesting regions that you know are full of shipwrecks.
Why not stop and make a few look see dives.
And then you see these 2 bronze cannons just lying there. Some ballast. Some cannon balls between the rocks and ballast. A few iron cannons.
Would you want to go back to this place?
View attachment 1984508

A very special shipwreck - French? Spanish?$$

 

[WRECKING]

A very special shipwreck - French? Spanish?$$

I think just the fact that there were at least 2 bronze cannons makes it special.
It is one of these regrets. We should have spent a few hours more. We should have covered a bit more area to check the whole extent of the wreck site. We should have made an effort to get at least a better date on the wreck.
If only we had.
But we said: Let's not call attention. We stop over again on our way back... It never happened.
Somebody said: lets bring one of the cannon up and take it with us.
As the captain and owner of the boat I did not want a "loose cannon" on board.
So we left it "in situ".
We need a few adventurous people to go and check it out.
Anybody interested?

 

[WRECKING]

you might enjoy this read...

https://www.melfisher.com/Research_Archives/AtochaMargarita2016-2018PermitRenewalReportv2019-01-14_Redacted.pdf

Thank you ARC, great read.
I remember a few cannons from the Atocha, from Dirk's site. Some were badly worn. Mel called the one "shark cannon". Mel joked the turtled had been rubbing against it for centuries and that had worn down the cannon. These worn ones is what I would like to know what happened to them.

 

[Boatlode]

All this talk about cannons reminds me of the badly worn cannons from the Atocha. Whatever happened to these cannons?

One of them is in the Sebastian museum too.

 

[Keg1717]

What should I do with it? My wife says it is much too big for our bedroom.

Honestly, do you want to help me get it?

I have the same problem. 20feet of water but what do I do with it then someone will notice a canon hanging out the suv

 

[WRECKING]

I have the same problem. 20feet of water but what do I do with it then someone will notice a canon hanging out the suv

Would that be: "in possession of an illegal weapon"?

 

[bartholomewroberts]

Well... at least you would not have to worry about a concealed permit!! LOL

Micheal