Bronze cannon site

[WRECKING]

"Don't just sit there, do something" the man said.
So I have decided to do something with this bronze cannon wreck.
But what should I do?
Should I try to sell the exact position?
Sell it to whom?
UNESCO?
To Hunter1805?
To the highest bidder?
Should I donate it? To whom?

Should we play a democracy game with it and give it to the forum member who has the best idea of what to do with it?
Should we vote on the best idea?

 

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[Blak bart]

First order of business is the permitting. Very little can be done except outright piracy until this first and most important hurdle is overcome !! Without the permits its no more than another grainy picture of an artifact that cannot be legally recovered. Just think how many others have similar photos and sites ?? The questions are always the same ?? Are they not ?? Some of us are sitting on more than a few wrecks. The devil is in the details....the legal details !! Magoopeter is right....a new legal and working arrangement must be made and it will include a new framework for archies, investors, biologists, and all the other pertinent players involved in the next wave of underwater shipwreck excavation. So as delightful a conversation as this is.....that first hurdle in the process is the most important !! Until that is worked out the rest of the conversation is a nice topic for cocktail parties and not much more !! Start the process of permitting again, and the rest of the speculation can continue after the big hurdle is cleared !!

 

[Magoopeter]

You need to put it into a popper business plan along with all the other wrecks you left behind for one reason or another, don’t give it a way, you need a consultancy fee plus % of the net profit. It can be done, but will take a bit of planning and that is going to mean next year. There is a way to this under permits and the connections are there.

I’m of to Norway on the 28th then Florida about the 8th of November, on shipwreck business, I’ll know by the end of November what can be achieved next year , Ill be in touch, not interested in one wreck want a package, I know you have got that. I know you say dream on, but I also know you’ve got the 500-million-dollar wreck plus! You guys found more wrecks that one team could salvage in a lifetime, but it is time to make that pay, as tide and time waits for no man.

Be grateful if you’d start answering PM,S

 

[Mackaydon]

When seeking a permit from the permitting authority, several points should be considered:
1. Try not to give up the exact location of the artifacts; give only a general area; maybe a five mile radius.
2. How will you handle it if the permitting authority wants its % from a 'pick of the liter'; he wants his share from the artifacts themselves, not from the net proceeds of sales. He may also want the first 'pick' before there is any deductions for the 'cost of selling', etc.
3. Make sure you understand if there will be an 'export duty' claimed by the permitting country. If so, how will that export duty be assessed? What is the method of appraisal?
4. Will the permitting authority require the artifacts first go through a conservation process(at their facility) before you get to pick them up? If so, how much time will that require?
5. Consider the cost of storage and conservation if those costs become yours.
6. Consider the cost for your own appraiser to participate in the evaluation process.
7. (members for other recovery teams can easily add to this list)
Don....

 

[WRECKING]

First order of business is the permitting. Very little can be done except outright piracy until this first and most important hurdle is overcome !! Without the permits its no more than another grainy picture of an artifact that cannot be legally recovered. Just think how many others have similar photos and sites ?? The questions are always the same ?? Are they not ?? Some of us are sitting on more than a few wrecks. The devil is in the details....the legal details !! Magoopeter is right....a new legal and working arrangement must be made and it will include a new framework for archies, investors, biologists, and all the other pertinent players involved in the next wave of underwater shipwreck excavation. So as delightful a conversation as this is.....that first hurdle in the process is the most important !! Until that is worked out the rest of the conversation is a nice topic for cocktail parties and not much more !! Start the process of permitting again, and the rest of the speculation can continue after the big hurdle is cleared !!

I agree with what you are saying, but, after waiting for many years now for things to sort out. They did not.
The Caribbean and many other places made a significant part of their revenue from tourism. Covid upset the apple cart. The majority of the people there were never far above the poverty level. Now people go hungry.
The shipwrecks are a great resource that can be tapped. The heritage is not something to sit on, to fade away into oblivion.
Uncover the heritage. Develop the resources. Create jobs. Create jobs Create jobs.

 

[WRECKING]

You need to put it into a popper business plan along with all the other wrecks you left behind for one reason or another, don’t give it a way, you need a consultancy fee plus % of the net profit. It can be done, but will take a bit of planning and that is going to mean next year. There is a way to this under permits and the connections are there.

I’m of to Norway on the 28th then Florida about the 8th of November, on shipwreck business, I’ll know by the end of November what can be achieved next year , Ill be in touch, not interested in one wreck want a package, I know you have got that. I know you say dream on, but I also know you’ve got the 500-million-dollar wreck plus! You guys found more wrecks that one team could salvage in a lifetime, but it is time to make that pay, as tide and time waits for no man.

Be grateful if you’d start answering PM,S

Sorry for not answering your PM's. You might have some ideas there. I need some time to look deeper into it.
First I need to clear my head a bit. Right now I am in a foul mood and have a hard time trying to see things from a sunny side.
When I look at the old pictures like this bronze cannon picture, all the memories come back. The people I met. The happiness of these people while they were suffering hardship.
I wanted to help them then.
Now they really need help.

 

[WRECKING]

When seeking a permit from the permitting authority, several points should be considered:
1. Try not to give up the exact location of the artifacts; give only a general area; maybe a five mile radius.
2. How will you handle it if the permitting authority wants its % from a 'pick of the liter'; he wants his share from the artifacts themselves, not from the net proceeds of sales. He may also want the first 'pick' before there is any deductions for the 'cost of selling', etc.
3. Make sure you understand if there will be an 'export duty' claimed by the permitting country. If so, how will that export duty be assessed? What is the method of appraisal?
4. Will the permitting authority require the artifacts first go through a conservation process(at their facility) before you get to pick them up? If so, how much time will that require?
5. Consider the cost of storage and conservation if those costs become yours.
6. Consider the cost for your own appraiser to participate in the evaluation process.
7. (members for other recovery teams can easily add to this list)
Don....

Thank you for the feedback and good advice. I see that you are speaking from a lot of experience.

 

[Blak bart]

When seeking a permit from the permitting authority, several points should be considered:
1. Try not to give up the exact location of the artifacts; give only a general area; maybe a five mile radius.
2. How will you handle it if the permitting authority wants its % from a 'pick of the liter'; he wants his share from the artifacts themselves, not from the net proceeds of sales. He may also want the first 'pick' before there is any deductions for the 'cost of selling', etc.
3. Make sure you understand if there will be an 'export duty' claimed by the permitting country. If so, how will that export duty be assessed? What is the method of appraisal?
4. Will the permitting authority require the artifacts first go through a conservation process(at their facility) before you get to pick them up? If so, how much time will that require?
5. Consider the cost of storage and conservation if those costs become yours.
6. Consider the cost for your own appraiser to participate in the evaluation process.
7. (members for other recovery teams can easily add to this list)
Don....

These are some of the considerations that the investors of an operation like to see complete before agreeing to partner up....the devil is in the details....every consideration must be thought of and then funding can be secured.....no one wants to fund an operation that dosent have at least some of these considerations worked out !!

After all one could gamble on crypto currency and hope for the best and probably have a much higher success rate.
Mackaydon has the starts of a great list to be ironed out....im sure maritime lawyers will expand that 10 fold. In today's world of media there is much intellectual property to be thought of also....after all the story is what make documentaries.

The people with the money want to see all the legal documents and contracts as much as they want to see the pictures !!

 

[WRECKING]

The legal situation has to be cleared first. I fully agree on that.

Shipwrecks are a very important part of the heritage of the Bahamas.

Heritage tourism can be a very important part of tourism in the Bahamas.

Heritage tourism does not just happen.

Heritage tourism needs to be developed.

The development of heritage tourism takes a lot of work and investment.

Work means jobs. Jobs mean income and improvement of living standard.

The Bahamas has to fight a lot of competition in the tourism industry.

The Bahamas need to define its own niche within the general Caribbean tourism industry.

The Bahamas has its special heritage in the wrecking industry that characterized the Bahamas for several centuries.

With 700 islands and countless rocks and beaches, all linked to shipwrecks and the wrecking industry of old, the shipwreck and wrecking industry heritage stands out among all the other Caribbean nations.

A unique and special situation that can be developed into a strong attraction for the tourism industry.

Every single rock, every single sand spit has its own story to tell. This story gives a special attraction for tourists. Example:

There is this tiny little bit of a sandy island somewhere in the Bahamas. I will not tell you the name, but if you catch the clues it will be easy for you to find the story in one of the old Bahamas newspapers.

The Bahamian wrecking boat found a wrecked ship on the beach. There was nobody alive from the shipwrecked people. The wreckers found 6 dead people with the shipwreck. They buried the death as high up as possible on the tiny sand island and then went about their business.

The wreckers had no clue why the ship wrecked and why all the people were dead. They found out soon enough. Every one of the wreckers who touched the dead, when they buried them, died within a few days. Cholera.

Well, the name of the island is not Cholera island. But, for myself I got very interested to visit this forlorn island. Look for any traces of the story, of the shipwreck.

I would like to investigate the name of the ship, the names of the people, the names of the wreckers and their boat and their history. The history of the families.

Write a little book about it. Document everything on video. Sell the book and the video to the tourists who come to sail the Bahamian waters. Attract more tourists.

Create a job by providing a tour guide who would guide the visiting boats to the storied island.

Now, multiply this x 1000 for every rock , beach and island with a heritage story.

 

[Magoopeter]

Agree Great post, how many wrecks are there,

 

[WRECKING]

Agree Great post, how many wrecks are there,

I believe the listing mentions about 5000 shipwrecks in the Bahamas. Plus the unknown ones. I guess it would take some time to find the story of each one, even with 100 people working full time.

 

[Hunter1805]

If it were me...... Stop posting stop all communications and let this die..You found yourself a good one.. Don't tell anyone the location \, enjoy what you found and keep it to yourself. Dive, !!! find the gold find the artifacts and enjoy your time with the wreck. You have a life time of finds and time is on your side. You will get nothing if you go public. Keep a log, write a book keep the artifacts. Use 2-5 years of investigating. I have gone public only to be told that I can't do nothing while my site sits and rots away...You can always spend years investigating the site. Find a relative a friend to share this with. Enjoy the location, your find, your artifacts. You can always raise the cannons with an air bag without much effort. Before you go public, spend a few years investigating the wreck.

 

[Magoopeter]

If it were me...... Stop posting stop all communications and let this die..You found yourself a good one.. Don't tell anyone the location \, enjoy what you found and keep it to yourself. Dive, !!! find the gold find the artifacts and enjoy your time with the wreck. You have a life time of finds and time is on your side. You will get nothing if you go public. Keep a log, write a book keep the artifacts. Use 2-5 years of investigating. I have gone public only to be told that I can't do nothing while my site sits and rots away...You can always spend years investigating the site. Find a relative a friend to share this with. Enjoy the location, your find, your artifacts. You can always raise the cannons with an air bag without much effort. Before you go public, spend a few years investigating the wreck.

Who told you and what reason did they give?

 

[WRECKING]

If it were me...... Stop posting stop all communications and let this die..You found yourself a good one.. Don't tell anyone the location \, enjoy what you found and keep it to yourself. Dive, !!! find the gold find the artifacts and enjoy your time with the wreck. You have a life time of finds and time is on your side. You will get nothing if you go public. Keep a log, write a book keep the artifacts. Use 2-5 years of investigating. I have gone public only to be told that I can't do nothing while my site sits and rots away...You can always spend years investigating the site. Find a relative a friend to share this with. Enjoy the location, your find, your artifacts. You can always raise the cannons with an air bag without much effort. Before you go public, spend a few years investigating the wreck.

Perhaps we should form "the club of frustrated wreck finders".
Curious of what and who all would find together.

 

[Boatlode]

Bronze guns are much older than iron guns. If there were both iron and bronze guns in the same location there could be two different wrecks in that area. For example, here on the Treasure Coast we have an older wreck named the San Martin that sank in 1618 right among the 1715 wrecks of almost a hundred years later. For a time they mistakenly thought it was one of the 1715 ships, but it had bronze guns and the 1715 fleet carried iron guns.

Another possibility is that the guns were used as ballast for a later ship. There is an area off the east side of Bonaire (Dutch Antilles) where Bob Marx found dozens of cannons of all different types and ages. Turned out they were used as ballast for Dutch ships and jettisoned once they took on a full cargo load of salt from the island.

 

[WRECKING]

Bronze guns are much older than iron guns. If there were both iron and bronze guns in the same location there could be two different wrecks in that area. For example, here on the Treasure Coast we have an older wreck named the San Martin that sank in 1618 right among the 1715 wrecks of almost a hundred years later. For a time they mistakenly thought it was one of the 1715 ships, but it had bronze guns and the 1715 fleet carried iron guns.

Another possibility is that the guns were used as ballast for a later ship. There is an area off the east side of Bonaire (Dutch Antilles) where Bob Marx found dozens of cannons of all different types and ages. Turned out they were used as ballast for Dutch ships and jettisoned once they took on a full cargo load of salt from the island.

Good observations.
Indeed there is a later period shipwreck less than half a mile away. I would say that there could be a remote possibility that the ship hit the rocks first, then got loose and sank while trying to enter the bay.

 

[Smithbrown]

You can get both bronze and cast-iron guns on the same wreck- this is typical of the ships of the Dutch East India Company in both the 17th and 18th century.

 

[Magoopeter]

You can get both bronze and cast-iron guns on the same wreck- this is typical of the ships of the Dutch East India Company in both the 17th and 18th century.

What about French ships?

 

[Smithbrown]

Do you mean warships or merchant ships?

 

[Magoopeter]

Do you mean warships or merchant ships?

Merchant