🥇 BANNER Bottle with a note inside 5 to 6 inches deep in the ground.

reading this pdf of a ccc worker, makes me think all the guys
in the note, were prob not ccc, ive read 2 others same story
this one mentioned Federal Transient Service camps AKA hobo
jungles,Hoovervilles,
im thinking maybe they met @ some jungle,or hoover could be
the note writer, kept running into the guys maybe one or 2
@ a time over the yrs. there was a few yrs depression in 1894
to 1900,and again in 1908 to 1920. or they could have been,the
unskilled immigrants that wandered americas heartland @ harvest
since i cant find all the names in the same yrs in the same areas
that lends to the idea they may have been transients

pdf
http://collections.mnhs.org/MNHistoryMagazine/articles/48/v48i07p295-302.pdf

Federal Transient Service camps
http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1061&context=greatplainsquarterly

Hoovervilles Across the United States During the Depression

from a ccc to transient camps
The Great Depression: Transient Men | IPTV

long read but interesting, a take away, maybe a milk wagon
isnt what we think

(To the uninitiated, hobo speech could be unintelligible)
"gunnels". These were the metal bars running lengthwise below the
boxcars, upon which many hoboes travelled.
The American Hobo
 

cw0909 said:
reading this pdf of a ccc worker, makes me think all the guys
in the note, were prob not ccc, ive read 2 others same story
this one mentioned Federal Transient Service camps AKA hobo
jungles,Hoovervilles,
im thinking maybe they met @ some jungle,or hoover could be
the note writer, kept running into the guys maybe one or 2
@ a time over the yrs. there was a few yrs depression in 1894
to 1900,and again in 1908 to 1920. or they could have been,the
unskilled immigrants that wandered americas heartland @ harvest
since i cant find all the names in the same yrs in the same areas
that lends to the idea they may have been transients

pdf
http://collections.mnhs.org/MNHistoryMagazine/articles/48/v48i07p295-302.pdf

Federal Transient Service camps
http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1061&context=greatplainsquarterly

Hoovervilles Across the United States During the Depression

from a ccc to transient camps
The Great Depression: Transient Men | IPTV

long read but interesting, a take away, maybe a milk wagon
isnt what we think

(To the uninitiated, hobo speech could be unintelligible)
"gunnels". These were the metal bars running lengthwise below the
boxcars, upon which many hoboes travelled.
The American Hobo
Click to expand...

great post!
hobo feels right
 

This is really and interesting thread and I've really enjoyed the collective research and thought from the group. Really cool. I've checked and re-checked this thread many time - even though this is a crazy time at work right now. I think the "worker camp" idea has some merit, though it may not just be government-run camps. I've seen articles about logging camps that were in this area of MN and would have necessarily moved around. Given that this was in the Depression, it would not be too surprising if the loggers were former farmers from Iowa or farmers supplementing income.

I've been noodling on another narrative. It is half-baked for sure but, like I said, work is crazy so I have not been able to run it to ground. Maybe the group can make something of it, or shoot it down. No worries either way. I just want to contribute what I can. Anyhow, I think that there is some potential that the note is referring to union intimidation. In the 1920s and 30s, there were farmer union strikes in WI, IA, and MN. in 1933, there was a Milk Strike in WI. It was called the "milk war" or "dairy wars" and they were quite violent. There were similar strikes in MN, which was a hotbed for union activity. Some of the strikes and violence were more traditional in that they took place in cities and involved manufacturing, but there was lots of union activity (and violence) in rural areas because of farmers unions (see farmers holiday association; see also Farmer Labor party) and because of the transporters and cooperatives that sold farm products to businesses. The Teamsters were so named because they drove horse teams transporting goods - like milk wagons. They came into their own at this time and in this area.

With this in mind, the writer could be a scab or a holdout for some strike or pricing collective. He could be a willing participant in the organization but backing the wrong boss. He could be concerned about threats from anti-union activists [the Citizen's Alliance operated in the area and time and tried to break strikes and collectives through violence). He could be a farmer threatened by a transportation union or a transporter threatened by a farm union.

This narrative does not explain everything in the note but it accounts for: (1) the boss reference; (2) the milk wagon; (3) the violence and intimidation; (4) the nexus between MN, WI, and IA and the potential presence of out-of-state farmers in MN; (5) the fact that the note is on a butcher's receipt; (6) the multiple dates (are these referencing the prior tenures of the bosses?); (7) the presence of wives (maybe, unions had woman's auxiliaries to support and feed the men, particularly when striking). It doesn't explain "robbing" or "stealing cabin" so maybe this dog doesn't hunt. Maybe I'm just quick to assume union violence because I grew up in NJ! Maybe its because it is almost Labor Day! I copied links I found in my half-baked research. Have at it and don't be shy about shooting it down. Thanks for letting me contribute to an interesting conversation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farmers'_Holiday_Association
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Farmer–Labor_Party
https://teamster.org/about/teamster-history/1934
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1933_Wisconsin_milk_strike
Agnes Zahradnik Obituary - Austin, MN | The Post-Bulletin
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2009/08/mpls-a31.html
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2009/08/mpls-a31.html
Sidney Wanzer & Sons, Inc. v. Milk Drivers U., Local 753, 249 F. Supp. 664 (N.D. Ill. 1966) :: Justia
 

We've done a lot of good work on this mystery. And the theories presented, IMO, are all still viable at this point.
__________________________________
Here are the facts as I see them:

The bottle is from 1929 - 1951.

The bottle was found on the grounds of the old mental hospital.

The notes are written on old (1908) butcher receipts.

The hospital grounds had a slaughterhouse in 1908 (and during the bottle age range).

Several people referenced in the notes have a connection in Linn County, Iowa which is @ 100 miles away from the bottle find.

The writer appears to historical knowledge of some of the people referenced in the notes.

The writer feels and/or has been threatened by the people referenced.

The writer was robbed.

In the late 1930's there was a CCC camp @ 3 miles from the bottle find.
______________________________

Can anyone add additional facts?

I'd like to see confirmation that all these guys were associated with the CCC. It has been noted that several of these people don't fit the rules for the CCC. They are too old and wives are referenced in the notes.

I'd also like to know more about Arty Kendy. Is he the writer? Is he even a HE? My research found lots of women named Artie (rarely Arty) in the 1930's. I found 1 Arthur Kendy in the 1940 census but he was too young to be our guy.

I still think the writer was hiding out at the slaughterhouse when the notes were written.

Why? Before computers companies used to store all their paper records and keep them of a long time. I think this guy hid in the deepest recesses of the slaughterhouse basement, found old paper, and left the clues in case he turned up dead.

That's why the paper is 1908 and the bottle is 1930's.

Is this the ravings of a lunatic? Maybe. But, for me, there is too much detail about the people for it to just be gibberish from a madman.

This research is WAY more fun than work. I hope I don't get fired!
 

Ditlihi said:
I've searched my fingers to a nub, lol, but the only place I found every name, ( with the exception of Yohedrick or any combination thereof ), was in the CCC Rolls for Wisconsin.

There I found:

Frank Roland/Rolland/Rowland

Frank Hubechek

Arthur Kennedy

Joe Holtz/Holets

....all in the same directory.

There were CCC camps near Chippewa Falls, WI and Rochester, MN both in that time period (1936). Now I'm wondering if this is some disagreement arising from one of those camps? Times were hard and being "boss" might mean the difference in $30 mo. pay vs. $40. I dunno, it's making me crazy, lol.

Sparta CCC District, Sixth Corp Area Annual :: Turning Points in Wisconsin History (searchable database)

CCC Camps Minnesota

CCC Camps Wisconsin

I'm sure learning a lot of interesting history about this area and the time period, though. Always a plus in my way of thinking. And who doesn't love a mystery. Kudos again to everyone trying to solve this one! :icon_thumright:


Oh, almost forgot...while researching Quarry Hill where this was found, I was looking for info on the slaughterhouse and ran across an item about a theft of some dynamite from the dynamite shed during this same period. Was quite a stir at the time, as the President was scheduled to visit Rochester in the next few days. The theft was investigated by the FBI as a possible plot, and extra precautions were made to protect him. Quite interesting times indeed.

Fossil Hunting

* last paragraph at bottom of page
Click to expand...


To my mind, this is the single most important connection we have here, and I think that, if true, it refutes the theory about a hobo camp. I asked a question or two about it, but don't believe I've seen them answered.

Did it list the camp(s) that they were in? Were they all in the same camp at the same time? If not, you could simply have found other people with similar names scattered throughout the country.

Did you check for the Zahradnik variation of "Yohedrick "? If not, would you mind?

(you posted several links... is one of them where you found those names?)
 

wilsondog said:
This is really and interesting thread and I've really enjoyed the collective research and thought from the group. Really cool. I've checked and re-checked this thread many time - even though this is a crazy time at work right now. I think the "worker camp" idea has some merit, though it may not just be government-run camps. I've seen articles about logging camps that were in this area of MN and would have necessarily moved around. Given that this was in the Depression, it would not be too surprising if the loggers were former farmers from Iowa or farmers supplementing income.

I've been noodling on another narrative. It is half-baked for sure but, like I said, work is crazy so I have not been able to run it to ground. Maybe the group can make something of it, or shoot it down. No worries either way. I just want to contribute what I can. Anyhow, I think that there is some potential that the note is referring to union intimidation. In the 1920s and 30s, there were farmer union strikes in WI, IA, and MN. in 1933, there was a Milk Strike in WI. It was called the "milk war" or "dairy wars" and they were quite violent. There were similar strikes in MN, which was a hotbed for union activity. Some of the strikes and violence were more traditional in that they took place in cities and involved manufacturing, but there was lots of union activity (and violence) in rural areas because of farmers unions (see farmers holiday association; see also Farmer Labor party) and because of the transporters and cooperatives that sold farm products to businesses. The Teamsters were so named because they drove horse teams transporting goods - like milk wagons. They came into their own at this time and in this area.

With this in mind, the writer could be a scab or a holdout for some strike or pricing collective. He could be a willing participant in the organization but backing the wrong boss. He could be concerned about threats from anti-union activists [the Citizen's Alliance operated in the area and time and tried to break strikes and collectives through violence). He could be a farmer threatened by a transportation union or a transporter threatened by a farm union.

This narrative does not explain everything in the note but it accounts for: (1) the boss reference; (2) the milk wagon; (3) the violence and intimidation; (4) the nexus between MN, WI, and IA and the potential presence of out-of-state farmers in MN; (5) the fact that the note is on a butcher's receipt; (6) the multiple dates (are these referencing the prior tenures of the bosses?); (7) the presence of wives (maybe, unions had woman's auxiliaries to support and feed the men, particularly when striking). It doesn't explain "robbing" or "stealing cabin" so maybe this dog doesn't hunt. Maybe I'm just quick to assume union violence because I grew up in NJ! Maybe its because it is almost Labor Day! I copied links I found in my half-baked research. Have at it and don't be shy about shooting it down. Thanks for letting me contribute to an interesting conversation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farmers'_Holiday_Association
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Farmer–Labor_Party
https://teamster.org/about/teamster-history/1934
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1933_Wisconsin_milk_strike
Agnes Zahradnik Obituary - Austin, MN | The Post-Bulletin
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2009/08/mpls-a31.html
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2009/08/mpls-a31.html
Sidney Wanzer & Sons, Inc. v. Milk Drivers U., Local 753, 249 F. Supp. 664 (N.D. Ill. 1966) :: Justia
Click to expand...

For me, at this point, it all hinges on where or not all of those names were on the CCC rosters at the same time and place. If that holds true, then I think we are halfway there. If not, other theories are well worth looking into. I do think your idea holds a lot of merit, though, as does the hobo camp idea.
 

wilsondog said:
This is really and interesting thread and I've really enjoyed the collective research and thought from the group. Really cool. I've checked and re-checked this thread many time - even though this is a crazy time at work right now. I think the "worker camp" idea has some merit, though it may not just be government-run camps. I've seen articles about logging camps that were in this area of MN and would have necessarily moved around. Given that this was in the Depression, it would not be too surprising if the loggers were former farmers from Iowa or farmers supplementing income.

I've been noodling on another narrative. It is half-baked for sure but, like I said, work is crazy so I have not been able to run it to ground. Maybe the group can make something of it, or shoot it down. No worries either way. I just want to contribute what I can. Anyhow, I think that there is some potential that the note is referring to union intimidation. In the 1920s and 30s, there were farmer union strikes in WI, IA, and MN. in 1933, there was a Milk Strike in WI. It was called the "milk war" or "dairy wars" and they were quite violent. There were similar strikes in MN, which was a hotbed for union activity. Some of the strikes and violence were more traditional in that they took place in cities and involved manufacturing, but there was lots of union activity (and violence) in rural areas because of farmers unions (see farmers holiday association; see also Farmer Labor party) and because of the transporters and cooperatives that sold farm products to businesses. The Teamsters were so named because they drove horse teams transporting goods - like milk wagons. They came into their own at this time and in this area.

With this in mind, the writer could be a scab or a holdout for some strike or pricing collective. He could be a willing participant in the organization but backing the wrong boss. He could be concerned about threats from anti-union activists [the Citizen's Alliance operated in the area and time and tried to break strikes and collectives through violence). He could be a farmer threatened by a transportation union or a transporter threatened by a farm union.

This narrative does not explain everything in the note but it accounts for: (1) the boss reference; (2) the milk wagon; (3) the violence and intimidation; (4) the nexus between MN, WI, and IA and the potential presence of out-of-state farmers in MN; (5) the fact that the note is on a butcher's receipt; (6) the multiple dates (are these referencing the prior tenures of the bosses?); (7) the presence of wives (maybe, unions had woman's auxiliaries to support and feed the men, particularly when striking). It doesn't explain "robbing" or "stealing cabin" so maybe this dog doesn't hunt. Maybe I'm just quick to assume union violence because I grew up in NJ! Maybe its because it is almost Labor Day! I copied links I found in my half-baked research. Have at it and don't be shy about shooting it down. Thanks for letting me contribute to an interesting conversation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farmers'_Holiday_Association
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Farmer–Labor_Party
https://teamster.org/about/teamster-history/1934
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1933_Wisconsin_milk_strike
Agnes Zahradnik Obituary - Austin, MN | The Post-Bulletin
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2009/08/mpls-a31.html
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2009/08/mpls-a31.html
Sidney Wanzer & Sons, Inc. v. Milk Drivers U., Local 753, 249 F. Supp. 664 (N.D. Ill. 1966) :: Justia
Click to expand...


Excellent! I've actually been working on this angle too with a specific individual. You have a lot of great info here which I didn't know about. I going to look it over look over all your research - thanks for posting!
 

Iron Buzz said:
To my mind, this is the single most important connection we have here, and I think that, if true, it refutes the theory about a hobo camp. I asked a question or two about it, but don't believe I've seen them answered.

Did it list the camp(s) that they were in? Were they all in the same camp at the same time? If not, you could simply have found other people with similar names scattered throughout the country.

Did you check for the Zahradnik variation of "Yohedrick "? If not, would you mind?

(you posted several links... is one of them where you found those names?)[/SIZE]
Click to expand...



I agree, it's entirely possible that when I did the text search within the document linked it could have pulled from any combination of the names I searched; ie., Joe....Holets...... Frank.....Hubechek...etc. But the document only pertains to the Sparta District, Sixth Corp Area, Wisconsin, so I wouldn't think it contained names from all over the country.

Sparta CCC District, Sixth Corp Area Annual :: Turning Points in Wisconsin History

I have no way of knowing without examining the entire document, page by microfilmed page.....which is 200 pages, names not in alphabetical order, and consists of thousands of individual entries. I have been doing that, in my spare time, and am currently at pg. 169....without any luck so far. Still searching.

And yes, I did a search for Zahradnik....nothing.

So, at this time ( until I finish searching the entire document ) I would have to say that all suggested options are still viable.

:dontknow:


Edit: And yes, they are listed by company and camp in the document.
 

Last edited:
Ditlihi said:
I agree, it's entirely possible that when I did the text search within the document linked it could have pulled from any combination of the names I searched; ie., Joe....Holets...... Frank.....Hubechek...etc. But the document only pertains to the Sparta District, Sixth Corp Area, Wisconsin, so I wouldn't think it contained names from all over the country.

Sparta CCC District, Sixth Corp Area Annual :: Turning Points in Wisconsin History

I have no way of knowing without examining the entire document, page by microfilmed page.....which is 200 pages, names not in alphabetical order, and consists of thousands of individual entries. I have been doing that, in my spare time, and am currently at pg. 169....without any luck so far. Still searching.

And yes, I did a search for Zahradnik....nothing.

So, at this time ( until I finish searching the entire document ) I would have to say that all suggested options are still viable.

:dontknow:


Edit: And yes, they are listed by company and camp in the document.
Click to expand...

Oh, yeah... I see what you mean. That search function they have really sucks!
 

Ditlihi said:
I agree, it's entirely possible that when I did the text search within the document linked it could have pulled from any combination of the names I searched; ie., Joe....Holets...... Frank.....Hubechek...etc. But the document only pertains to the Sparta District, Sixth Corp Area, Wisconsin, so I wouldn't think it contained names from all over the country.

Sparta CCC District, Sixth Corp Area Annual :: Turning Points in Wisconsin History

I have no way of knowing without examining the entire document, page by microfilmed page.....which is 200 pages, names not in alphabetical order, and consists of thousands of individual entries. I have been doing that, in my spare time, and am currently at pg. 169....without any luck so far. Still searching.

And yes, I did a search for Zahradnik....nothing.

So, at this time ( until I finish searching the entire document ) I would have to say that all suggested options are still viable.

:dontknow:


Edit: And yes, they are listed by company and camp in the document.
Click to expand...

I downloaded the PDF and searched it that way. I got absolutely no matches. Not one person in our document is named in that PDF, as far as I could tell. Besides, I thought it was the Rochester CCC that you had found them in. Back to square #1 for me. Bummer.

PS: I haven't had a reply from that woman historian yet either.
 

Iron Buzz said:
I downloaded the PDF and searched it that way. I got absolutely no matches. Not one person in our document is named in that PDF, as far as I could tell. Besides, I thought it was the Rochester CCC that you had found them in. Back to square #1 for me. Bummer.

PS: I haven't had a reply from that woman historian yet either.
Click to expand...


Nope, at the time we were investigating a Chippewa Falls connection, Frank Hubechek. I have not been able to locate a source for the same info pertaining to Minnesota camps.

Yep, that definitely sucks.
 

They were called Hooversville's to place blame on president Herbert Hoover.

The cap may not be original to the bottle but Fruit Industies LTD did not exist untill 1933.

There was a seperate division of the ccc for vetrans of world war one, because they did not get the benafits they were promised, they let
them have jobs under the vcc in 1933 no vetran of world war one would meet the age requirement of the ccc
 

When prohibition hit The California wine association which brokered the sale of grapes to the winemakers
were set to go out of buisness they changed their name to Fruit Industies LTD and began selling the pure
grape pressings, Knowing that lots of it would be used to make wine illegaly, it is said that Al Capone offered them
one dollar per gallon for their total stock.
 

There's a book on amazon by Robert W. Audresten that lists them alphabetically, it's $30 bucks

I did confirm that if there is a v in the companys number there were veterans in that company, like i said before veterans
would not be held to the age limit, or marriage restriction, they also had LEM's in the camps ''local experienced men'' that
were not held to these restrictions.
 

If im reading everything correctly company 1774-v was first on E-93 Rochester - this would have been public lands erosion control
Next Virginia weather or not this is the state or if there is a town called virginia in minnesota is unclear to me, this project was SF-12 SF meaning state forest
Next PE-93 Rochester minnesota The P would mean private land
and another in rochester scs-12 which would have been soil conservation
 

So, building on what others have suggested, heres a possible interpretation -

If the pages weren't in the correct order it could make some sense.

Page 2
ARTY KENDY
FRANK ROLLAND
BOSS 36
1936
FRANK HUBECHEK
CHIPOWA FALLS
WISCONSIN SALONIST.
1900
1910
----- (divider line drawn on page)
FRANK ROLLAND
FRANK HUBECHECK
ANTON HOLETS
FARM
1895
1899
----- (divider line drawn on page)
ITS THE ONES HERE
JUST THE SAME TALK SAME
GIRL ROBBED ME AS I LOOKED AT HER

(I think the note at the bottom of this page could have been done in hind-sight as opposed to the start of his narrative.
I think the narrative could have started with the continued list of people involved)

Page 4
ROLLAND GIRL, ZAHRADNIK WIFE, JOE HOLETS WIFE, HOUSE TOO
ALL WERE READY TO DRIVE ME IN THERE OR
SMASH MY HEAD WITH A ROCK
IF ROLLAND NOT GET BE BOSS

(here he lists the female counterparts to the males he works with who is in conflict with over the boss position.
The females are driving him into the (yet unmentioned cabin) under threat of smashing his head in to facilitate Rolland becoming boss
presumably while the men folk are gone to work during the day)

DRUNK ROLLAND CAME TO LOG CABIN
CRYING ME GREEN HORN WANTED TO STEAL (stash?) HIS COTTAGE AND EVERY THING

(Rolland shows up to the cabin drunk and calls the note-writer a greenhorn and berates him for usurping the boss position Rolland believes should go to himself. the "cottage" being a benefit of the position)

Page 3
WAS GOING TO SHOOT ME WITH A 38 REVOLVER

(Rolland drunk at the cabin was going to)

SO THEY MAKE ME STAND A LOG CABIN ALL DAY AND
IF I DID NOT SO THEY COULD SHOOT ME AT ONCE

(now that Rolland has shown up drunk with the gun the note-writer is being held
under threat of being shot, not just smashed in the head with rocks by the women folk)

ROLLAND IN.
ZAHRADNIK IN

MILK WAGON 1896
YELLING IN ROAD
HE SEE ABOUT IT

(These two threatened him not to leave the cabin or he will be shot... maybe?)

I HAD TO GO IN THERE THE NEXT DAY ALL DAY SO

Page 5
HE GET TO FIX IT SO HE BE BOSS HERE

(they kept him in the cabin the whole next day so Rolland could take the boss position)

THE NEXT DAY HE TOLD THEM, ZAHRADNIK HE SEE ABOUT IT

(Rolland told someone (the females?) Zahradnik would take care of the note-writer for good)

KINDLY (kinda) FUNNEY ANY WAY

(here he expresses the irony of his escape)

THAT MEANS HE KILLED ME IF THEY COULD NOT DROVE ME IN THERE

(that means Zahradnik was going to kill him if they could (but note-writer escaped), not keep him hidden any longer)

THE NIGHT BEFORE ME HID BY HOUSE SO THEY DIDNT CATCH ME AND KILL ME

(So somehow he escapes the night before the were going to kill him, hides and gets away (maybe someone sympathetic to his situation,
it could also explain how he knew they had decided to kill him)


Just a theory :)
 

Geeze Louise, rodgerdodger! This thread came across my FB feed and I HAD to come and see what you've dug! That was a LONG read, but well worth the time. Love your find! I hope you all can figure out who, what, when and where. Congrats on banner! WTG!
Nana :hello:
 

squirrel thats a good read,i tried a couple times,just couldnt get it to make sense

found some info on ccc news letters/papers
for co.1774
The Veteran’s Voice of Company 1774 in Rochester, Minnesota
https://www.scripps.ohiou.edu/mediahistory/mhmjour2-1.htm

looking around ccc Legacy, co.1757 was in MN & IA
not in wis.the only MN,IA connect ive found so far
i did not look at other states yet
MN.
E-93 1757 6/24/1933 Rochester Rochester
IA.
SP-16 1757 4/27/1934 Forest City Forest City
SP-5 1757 10/9/1934 Connell Bluffs Connnell Bluffs Camp 1 mi S
SP-24 1757 7/25/1935 Bedford Bedford Camp .5 mi S
SCS-28 1757 10/10/1938 Bedford Bedford Camp .5 mi S
CCC Camps Iowa

Key to abbreviations
CCC Camp Lists
 

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