Both sides of Stone Maps Argument

[Al D]

Before we get any further on this, just consider this.

Travis Tumlinson carved stones. Apparently he liked to carve stones, so much that he even carved the chimney of the house. He liked to carve Spanish treasure themed stones. Now remember he is the one who supposedly "Found" the Peralta stones. It would be quite a coincidence wouldn't it, that of all the people on the planet, that Travis, a guy who loved to carve Spanish treasure themed stones, is the same one who found the Peralta stones? Doesn't that alone give you pause to consider that just maybe, Travis carved the Peralta stones himself, as Garry was told by family members of Travis?

Unless, Travis lied about finding the stones, perhaps the stones had been in his family for a long time and he had been enamored with them since his childhood.

 

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[azdave35]

Unless, Travis lied about finding the stones, perhaps the stones had been in his family for a long time and he had been enamored with them since his childhood.

his uncle was a collector of antique treasure maps...travis grew up with them

 

[somehiker]

his uncle was a collector of antique treasure maps...travis grew up with them

His grandfather "Pegleg" Tumlinson......who's story of old maps and t-hunting had been included in in the book "Coronado's Children" by F.J. Dobie.
No "stone maps" were ever mentioned in reference to and prior to Travis' story,published in 1964, however.

 

[Al D]

So, Thats half of it, Travis was into treasure maps, as was almost every kid, now, as for the stone carving, that is not an uncommon activity, if you have ever been to Europe and seen the castles there, they are covered with extensive carvings going back to the crusades and beyond
even the southwest Indians carved on stone, nothing unique there.
Travis having carved stone is not a smoking gun

 

[azdave35]

His grandfather "Pegleg" Tumlinson......who's story of old maps and t-hunting had been included in in the book "Coronado's Children" by F.J. Dobie.
No "stone maps" were ever mentioned in reference to and prior to Travis' story,published in 1964, however.

my bad wayne...it was his gramps..prior to 1964 there wasn't much info out there about anything

 

[sdcfia]

So, Thats half of it, Travis was into treasure maps, as was almost every kid, now, as for the stone carving, that is not an uncommon activity, if you have ever been to Europe and seen the castles there, they are covered with extensive carvings going back to the crusades and beyond
even the southwest Indians carved on stone, nothing unique there.
Travis having carved stone is not a smoking gun

A prudent person would likely side with Oro on this question. The odds strongly suggest that Travis carved the stones, which seem "modern". However, somehiker is also on target, IMO - Pegleg is the true key to this PSM saga. It follows that Travis was emulating information that was in his family when he produced the rock maps. Based on his alleged activities on the ground in AZ, he may not have known what to do with the information, or may have even reproduced the paper maps inaccurately. Me, I'd rather see the source data - ie, the maps that belonged to Pegleg.

 

[Al D]

A prudent person would likely side with Oro on this question. The odds strongly suggest that Travis carved the stones, which seem "modern". However, somehiker is also on target, IMO - Pegleg is the true key to this PSM saga. It follows that Travis was emulating information that was in his family when he produced the rock maps. Based on his alleged activities on the ground in AZ, he may not have known what to do with the information, or may have even reproduced the paper maps inaccurately. Me, I'd rather see the source data - ie, the maps that belonged to Pegleg.

To side with Oro on this effectivly ends the discussion, good points though.

 

[deducer]

Before we get any further on this, just consider this.

Travis Tumlinson carved stones. Apparently he liked to carve stones, so much that he even carved the chimney of the house. He liked to carve Spanish treasure themed stones. Now remember he is the one who supposedly "Found" the Peralta stones. It would be quite a coincidence wouldn't it, that of all the people on the planet, that Travis, a guy who loved to carve Spanish treasure themed stones, is the same one who found the Peralta stones? Doesn't that alone give you pause to consider that just maybe, Travis carved the Peralta stones himself, as Garry was told by family members of Travis?

Roy and Dave,

Let us assume for a moment that Travis Tumlinson did carve those Stone Maps.

The question is why? For what purpose?

 

[deducer]

His grandfather "Pegleg" Tumlinson......who's story of old maps and t-hunting had been included in in the book "Coronado's Children" by F.J. Dobie.
No "stone maps" were ever mentioned in reference to and prior to Travis' story,published in 1964, however.

I assume you mean Travis Marlowe?

 

[azdave35]

Roy and Dave,

Let us assume for a moment that Travis Tumlinson did carve those Stone Maps.

The question is why? For what purpose?

arthur.....there is someone on this forum that could answer that question better than i...he may or may not chime in..it was told to me that travis carved the maps to throw off other treasure hunters..if you think about it what better way to keep your competition busy...it sure worked on you guys.....

 

[somehiker]

I assume you mean Travis Marlowe?

No, I mean Travis Tumlinson, who was identified as "Jack" in the 1964 Life Magazine article about the Stone Maps as the original finder.
Travis Marlow was the nom de plume used by Clarence Mitchell in the article, which was written by Richard B. Stolley.

 

[deducer]

arthur.....there is someone on this forum that could answer that question better than i...he may or may not chime in..it was told to me that travis carved the maps to throw off other treasure hunters..if you think about it what better way to keep your competition busy...it sure worked on you guys.....

You can answer for yourself.

1) Then why do it on a heavy stone? The H/P stone is of a type that's difficult to carve- why not do it on sandstone to save time and effort?

2) Why did he do the heavy carving then go back and add the light scratchings? What purpose does that serve? That's not going to "sell" any more than the heavy carvings would.

3) And as Wayne said, why did all this information and widespread knowledge of the Stone Maps only come out when Travis Marlowe (a.k.a. Clarence Mitchell) published his booklet in 1965, as well as the Life Magazine article, in 1964, three years after Travis died? Seems counterintuitive to me for someone who wanted to "keep their competiton busy."

4) Travis Tumlinson claimed to find the Stone Maps in 1949. Yet you will NOT find any mention of it in print or otherwise, from that year, nor for many years until the 1960's. If he wanted to spread false information, he did a pretty bad job of it.

 

[somehiker]

arthur.....there is someone on this forum that could answer that question better than i...he may or may not chime in..it was told to me that travis carved the maps to throw off other treasure hunters..if you think about it what better way to keep your competition busy...it sure worked on you guys.....

And saying that same thing to someone you know would share it with other potential competitors just might keep them away.....if you think about it.

 

[azdave35]

You can answer for yourself.

1) Then why do it on a heavy stone? The H/P stone is of a type that's difficult to carve- why not do it on sandstone to save time and effort?

2) Why did he do the heavy carving then go back and add the light scratchings? What purpose does that serve? That's not going to "sell" any more than the heavy carvings would.

3) And as Wayne said, why did all this information and widespread knowledge of the Stone Maps only come out when Travis Marlowe (a.k.a. Clarence Mitchell) published his booklet in 1965, as well as the Life Magazine article, in 1964, three years after Travis died? Seems counterintuitive to me for someone who wanted to "keep their competiton busy."

4) Travis Tumlinson claimed to find the Stone Maps in 1949. Yet you will NOT find any mention of it in print or otherwise, from that year, nor for many years until the 1960's. If he wanted to spread false information, he did a pretty bad job of it.

arthur...all the family members i talked to said the stones in the museum were not the original stones travis carved.. i was under the impression he did carve in sandstone..the ones in the museum are repo according to the family members

 

[azdave35]

And saying that same thing to someone you know would share it with other potential competitors just might keep them away.....if you think about it.

wayne...there have been many pranksters in the supers over the years..hugh d'autramont said he and another fella witnessed old barry storm carving treasure symbols in the rocks in a letter to bernice macgee (i think it was her anyway)...even tom k. wrote in his newspaper column that he and another guy carved a treasure map on a rock and put it in a cave..thats just the tip of the ice berg....carrol ingle told me many times he caught people faking carvings back in the day

 

[deducer]

arthur...all the family members i talked to said the stones in the museum were not the original stones travis carved.. i was under the impression he did carve in sandstone..the ones in the museum are repo according to the family members

It's your prerogative to put all your eggs in the Tumlinson family basket- I don't.

For one thing, they did not really know as much about Travis as they implied that they did. There's a lot the family doesn't know, and RG has said so, in his own words:

It wasn’t that the family was keeping a secret from me….they were not. The family alive today is 3 to 4 generations removed. They live “normal” lives….they don’t treasure hunt, in fact of all the family I met, only one of them (as an adult) has ever been to Arizona at all, and that was for business.

 

[deducer]

wayne...there have been many pranksters in the supers over the years..hugh d'autramont said he and another fella witnessed old barry storm carving treasure symbols in the rocks in a letter to bernice macgee (i think it was her anyway)...even tom k. wrote in his newspaper column that he and another guy carved a treasure map on a rock and put it in a cave..thats just the tip of the ice berg....carrol ingle told me many times he caught people faking carvings back in the day

Yet none of the pranksters thought to carve anything resembling one or more of the symbols found on the Stone Maps.

 

[azdave35]

It's your prerogative to put all your eggs in the Tumlinson family basket- I don't.

For one thing, they did not really know as much about Travis as they implied that they did. There's a lot the family doesn't know, and RG has said so, in his own words:

lol..if you want to believe that... well i guess that's your prerogative but i talked to a few of the family members..i've told you before...the nephew was at my house and i talked to him personally ..i'll take his word for it

 

[azdave35]

Yet none of the pranksters thought to carve anything resembling one or more of the symbols found on the Stone Maps.

why would they if they had never seen the maps...nobody saw them until 1964

 

[deducer]

lol..if you want to believe that... well i guess that's your prerogative but i talked to a few of the family members..i've told you before...the nephew was at my house and i talked to him personally ..i'll take his word for it

He had no interest in it until RG showed up and started asking a lot of questions.