Bonafide Proof

[franklin]

We need facts of the Beale Papers actually happening? Does anyone have anything that is bonafide that actually substantiates that the Beale Party left Virginia in 1817? Is there any information or facts that they were seen or documented as being on the trail from St. Louis, MO. to Sante Fe, NM? Are there any proof of them being in Sante Fe, NM or returning to their homes in Virginia? Folks it is time to prove this story before we continue to hunt for a GHOST TREASURE. GHOST are hard to see and even harder to find if not impossible. So here it is what bonafide proof do you have let us have it?

 

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[Rebel - KGC]

Beale Expedition of 1817-1822...? NONE!

 

[ECS]

Many of the events alluded to in the Beale Papers were loosely based on actual events of others, that is why the lure to the unwary is so beguiling.

 

[franklin]

Many of the events alluded to in the Beale Papers were loosely based on actual events of others, that is why the lure to the unwary is so beguiling.

Yes we know of all the probabilities but we want some kind of document or newspaper article that can tell us did the story happen or was it made up by the mind of James Beverly Ward or other?

 

[Not Peralta]

Amigo's I had the proof the other day, I had a box of Bonafide Chicken, NP

 

[Not Peralta]

We need facts of the Beale Papers actually happening? Does anyone have anything that is bonafide that actually substantiates that the Beale Party left Virginia in 1817? Is there any information or facts that they were seen or documented as being on the trail from St. Louis, MO. to Sante Fe, NM? Are there any proof of them being in Sante Fe, NM or returning to their homes in Virginia? Folks it is time to prove this story before we continue to hunt for a GHOST TREASURE. GHOST are hard to see and even harder to find if not impossible. So here it is what bonafide proof do you have let us have it?

The fact is , this story is just a communication in code for another organization ,the proof for this is in one of the letters, it's this way for several treasure storie's of the period, things are not always as they seem, but , they have served their perpose, and it was a great idea, ,( In GOD WE TRUST.) NP

 

[ECS]

Beale Expedition of 1817-1822...? NONE!

Beale's stay at Washington Hotel...? NONE!
Beale's stay at Buford's ...? NONE!
Beale's letters to Morriss... ? NONE!

 

[franklin]

Beale's stay at Washington Hotel...? NONE!
Beale's stay at Buford's ...? NONE!
Beale's letters to Morriss... ? NONE!

That's about the size of it as I see it too. I have heard of a safe full of the old Buford Tavern papers but I have been unable to locate it? The diary of James Beverly Ward is still out there somewhere. There are relatives out there somewhere that could have papers. And then there is all of the historical homes in Lynchburg, Va that may turn up a time capsule someday. There is still possibilities out there. The papers in the attic at the Ferdinand Hutter home of Jerry Falwell. Then there is still the old homes in New London. I hear Liberty University has moved in there to renovate. Same excuse used by the Rockefeller Foundation at Williamsburg. Maybe they are looking for something? I still have hopes of finding a lot of information when I get the time. In Fincastle there is legal documents to look at while James Beverly Risqué and Thomas Beale had the duel. There are deeds still needed. I would like to know the location of the property in Campbell County that James Beverly Risqué purchased and whom he purchased it from. Did James Beverly Risqué pursue his military career after being General Andrew Jackson body guard. His 23 year old daughter ended up at Governor Clark's and got married in 1830 to George Christian Hutter. Then along came James Beverly Ward and got married to Harriett Otey in St. Louis. A lot of strange happenings. I found General Wilkerson had a home 60 miles east of New Orleans which is not far from Beale, Lafitte and others of Baton Rouge. Major Pike was leading the 6th Infantry into Battle in the Indian Wars in 1809 and George Christian Hutter was in the 6th Infantry. Also James Beverly Risqué was in these Battles as well as the Blackhawk Wars. Jefferson Davis and others were in these wars. I found a letter on the Internet from a man that was over the Knight's Templar in Richmond to a Q.M. Ward about something that Ward had asked about an Adams Company in the Big Lick Area in what is today Roanoke. Could this be the future Adams and Payne Feed Company? Also could the Q.M. Ward be Quartermaster James Beverly Ward. The letter was dated in 1865. There are tons of information out there not yet searched.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

WHEW!

 

[Not Peralta]

Amigo's, when you run across some of the older treasure stories ,they are just that,a story, no matter what dates are on them, they have something to do with a certain time period, they are usually a secret communication, they have nothing to do with the story behind them, they are true cipher forms of communication, used by organization, NP

 

[franklin]

March 4, 1938.

"Copies of the cryptogram which you forwarded have come to my attention from many different sources. I know to a certainty that copies of this cryptogram have been sold to persons who were given no knowledge of the existence of the pamphlet from which it was taken. This cryptogram is to be regarded in the same light as the myriad "treasure maps" which are sold in the southern states purporting to come down from pirate days and to reveal the location of hidden treasure. Such maps, when examined, have almost invariably been proved to be forgeries. It is likewise believed that the cryptogram which you forwarded is nothing more or less than a HOAX, foisted upon an unsuspecting public but which has, thanks to the double lure of buried treasure and cryptographic form, persisted throughout the years since it first appeared in 1885."

E.S. Friedman
Division of Intelligence
U.S. Coast Guard
Washington, D. C.


Can you believe the same cryptogram in the Beale Papers was already being sold before the pamphlet was put out for sale by James B. Ward as agent for the author. The code papers he believed to be authentic was authentic to James Beverly Ward because it was sold to him or given to him as being authentic. Then he and his kin, Mr. Sherman came up with the Captain Thomas Beale and the rest is history. I love it when a plan comes together. HOAX HOAX HOAX

 

[bigscoop]

March 4, 1938.

"Copies of the cryptogram which you forwarded have come to my attention from many different sources. I know to a certainty that copies of this cryptogram have been sold to persons who were given no knowledge of the existence of the pamphlet from which it was taken. This cryptogram is to be regarded in the same light as the myriad "treasure maps" which are sold in the southern states purporting to come down from pirate days and to reveal the location of hidden treasure. Such maps, when examined, have almost invariably been proved to be forgeries. It is likewise believed that the cryptogram which you forwarded is nothing more or less than a HOAX, foisted upon an unsuspecting public but which has, thanks to the double lure of buried treasure and cryptographic form, persisted throughout the years since it first appeared in 1885."

E.S. Friedman
Division of Intelligence
U.S. Coast Guard
Washington, D. C.


Can you believe the same cryptogram in the Beale Papers was already being sold before the pamphlet was put out for sale by James B. Ward as agent for the author. The code papers he believed to be authentic was authentic to James Beverly Ward because it was sold to him or given to him as being authentic. Then he and his kin, Mr. Sherman came up with the Captain Thomas Beale and the rest is history. I love it when a plan comes together. HOAX HOAX HOAX

That's not what is stated Frankilin, what is stated is that copies were sold to people who, "had no knowledge of the pamphlet from which the ciphers came." He isn't suggesting that copies were available prior to the pamphlet publication.
Also, he is offering his opinion on the "assumption" that the entire cipher is to be used and that it is by the same design, which we know today it clearly isn't either. So you can disregard his summation in regards to the remaining ciphers.

 

[franklin]

So you got any treasure to prove the story is true?

Here's what I believe happened because it happened to me. Everyone that is good at ciphers is usually contacted by someone with a cipher code to break and I believe the same thing happened to James Beverly Ward. My brother in law gave me a copy of the cipher code in the argosy magazine back in the 1960's because I was brilliant with numbers. Those cipher codes being sold all over the south ended up in James Beverly Ward's hands. He believed them to be authentic to a real treasure. He made up the story about gold in Sante Fe area, he had all the resources within the family and his travels as well. That is the reason James Beverly Ward worked on the ciphers believing that they would lead him to a treasure. James Beverly Ward was Civil Engineer and he believed he could crack the cipher codes leading to his almost losing everything he had. He made up the story hoping that someone would find a paper or key to the code and bring it to him so he could break the re-arranged cipher codes that he published. The story is a hoax anyone that believes otherwise can waste the rest of their lives and not find the Beale Treasure. They may get lucky and find another treasure since the story runs you 2,000 miles in every direction of the compass. Good Luck.

 

[masterpoe]

March 4, 1938.

"Copies of the cryptogram which you forwarded have come to my attention from many different sources. I know to a certainty that copies of this cryptogram have been sold to persons who were given no knowledge of the existence of the pamphlet from which it was taken. This cryptogram is to be regarded in the same light as the myriad "treasure maps" which are sold in the southern states purporting to come down from pirate days and to reveal the location of hidden treasure. Such maps, when examined, have almost invariably been proved to be forgeries. It is likewise believed that the cryptogram which you forwarded is nothing more or less than a HOAX, foisted upon an unsuspecting public but which has, thanks to the double lure of buried treasure and cryptographic form, persisted throughout the years since it first appeared in 1885."

E.S. Friedman
Division of Intelligence
U.S. Coast Guard
Washington, D. C.


Can you believe the same cryptogram in the Beale Papers was already being sold before the pamphlet was put out for sale by James B. Ward as agent for the author. The code papers he believed to be authentic was authentic to James Beverly Ward because it was sold to him or given to him as being authentic. Then he and his kin, Mr. Sherman came up with the Captain Thomas Beale and the rest is history. I love it when a plan comes together. HOAX HOAX HOAX

Jean has the letter from Friedman on his Facebook from 1949 and he seems to like and is researching them according to 1949 letters?

 

[bigscoop]

So you got any treasure to prove the story is true?

Here's what I believe happened because it happened to me. Everyone that is good at ciphers is usually contacted by someone with a cipher code to break and I believe the same thing happened to James Beverly Ward. My brother in law gave me a copy of the cipher code in the argosy magazine back in the 1960's because I was brilliant with numbers. Those cipher codes being sold all over the south ended up in James Beverly Ward's hands. He believed them to be authentic to a real treasure. He made up the story about gold in Sante Fe area, he had all the resources within the family and his travels as well. That is the reason James Beverly Ward worked on the ciphers believing that they would lead him to a treasure. James Beverly Ward was Civil Engineer and he believed he could crack the cipher codes leading to his almost losing everything he had. He made up the story hoping that someone would find a paper or key to the code and bring it to him so he could break the re-arranged cipher codes that he published. The story is a hoax anyone that believes otherwise can waste the rest of their lives and not find the Beale Treasure. They may get lucky and find another treasure since the story runs you 2,000 miles in every direction of the compass. Good Luck.

Agreed, there is/was no Beale "treasure" in the context assumed by the narration, and also agreed, the remaining cipher C1 as presented is a lost cause without knowing a great deal more about it and its original design. So those who believe in the Beale treasure as portrayed in the narration are only kidding themselves. However, the deposits were real and that wealth was associated with the Adams Onis Treaty, just as ECS is starting to discover that very possibility for himself by his discovering and posting of the Risque information and his alleged payments resulting from that same treaty. I'm going to explain all of this in the other thread so it can be maintained under one roof.

 

[ECS]

Jean has the letter from Friedman on his Facebook from 1949 and he seems to like and is researching them according to 1949 letters?

That letter is from Elizabeth Smith Freidman, Federal codebreaker, and wife of William Friedman, also a Federal breaker who met with Ward's daughter, Adeline Ward McVeigh in the middle 1930's, and concluded that the Beale Papers were "diabolical ingenuity, specifically designed to lure the unwary reader".
There have been many unwary readers of the last 130 years, will more will continue to join that club.

 

[masterpoe]

That letter is from Elizabeth Smith Freidman, Federal codebreaker, and wife of William Friedman, also a Federal breaker who met with Ward's daughter, Adeline Ward McVeigh in the middle 1930's, and concluded that the Beale Papers were "diabolical ingenuity, specifically designed to lure the unwary reader".
There have been many unwary readers of the last 130 years, will more will continue to join that club.

The one he has said it was to Alfred Percy from W F Friedman!

 

[masterpoe]

That letter is from Elizabeth Smith Freidman, Federal codebreaker, and wife of William Friedman, also a Federal breaker who met with Ward's daughter, Adeline Ward McVeigh in the middle 1930's, and concluded that the Beale Papers were "diabolical ingenuity, specifically designed to lure the unwary reader".
There have been many unwary readers of the last 130 years, will more will continue to join that club.

Can you show a link to this document you have referred to or is this just something you read in a novel somewhere?

 

[franklin]

Can you show a link to this document you have referred to or is this just something you read in a novel somewhere?

That is a letter from Elizabeth Friedman to Clayton I. Hart. Not the letter on Jean Laf blog.

I have a copy of all the letters, all the code breakers research in the 1930's both in Lynchburg and in St. Louis. I also have the letters by Friedman in 1949. All the research that was done in New Orleans for Peter Viemeister and other researchers. I even have a copy of the DOI in a newspaper in St. Louis in 1821 on the front page which TJB could have used for the KEY but I know the KEY came from an 1878 US History Book. I have several volumes on different avenues of the Beale Treasure some of my own some of others and I even have ten copies of C1 deciphered by others. Yet there is still more to research that is to prove whether the Beale Treasure is fiction or fact.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

It is in the paper-back, GOLD cover book by Innis... GOLD IN THE BLUE RIDGE, I think.