Blowing The Cast Iron Lids Off Of Beale

Read the first post in this thread, the proposed beginning to the end that you all want to examine. We are now 80+ post into this thread, review them and then explain to me their value, all of this effort and wasted text from a bunch of folks who claim that they don't want to waste their time. :laughing7:

Good lord, I can't imagine how much related info, documents, etc., I could have already put out here in 80 post. And it's not just in one thread, the same exist in all of them. "Tell us what you think you know" they ask, and then they make every effort to assure that it can't happen. Man, we're having fun though, and learning some new things along the way, right? :laughing7:
 

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Read the first post in this thread, the proposed beginning to the end that you all want to examine. We are now 80+ post into this thread, review them and then explain to me their value, all of this effort and wasted text from a bunch of folks who claim that they don't want to waste their time. :laughing7:

Good lord, I can't imagine how much related info, documents, etc., I could have already put out here in 80 post. And it's not just in one thread, the same exist in all of them. "Tell us what you think you know" they ask, and then they make every effort to assure that it can't happen. Man, we're having fun though, and learning some new things along the way, right? :laughing7:
You BETCHA!
 

Are you the same as all the others? ECS makes a lot of arguments he can not back up with proof. Not to say they are not true, but he lacks proof to help other see what he is saying.
Poe, Poe, I have backed up all my posts when posted as opposed to some here who continue to post one liners.
PS: You are free to pursue your own research into the matter if you harbor any doubts concerning the presented information.
But it does seem that you accept everything Laf posts without question, but are also quick to criticize those hold a different opinion from him.
 

"That the surplus will be applied towards the payment of the debts of the government contracted prior to the 15th of April, 1817, upon the express condition, however, that no one, who is not actually employed at the said port, shall enjoy the advantage of that arrangement, and that the old debts will be paid only to those who are actually employed at the port of Galveston."

What your looking at here is an amendment to previously contracted terms, this and a whole lot more all being a matter of Presidential and Congressional record, something in the order of about 50 testimonies/letters, etc. Now that it's out here and I've told you where to look this should be easy enough to find, however, while you will encounter loads of undeniable facts there it is but a small section of the spear extending from the tip, which is contained in the Poindexter letter previously posted, "for those who aren't too busy digging holes and desiring to entertain new ground." :laughing7::thumbsup:
 

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Weren't the men in the alleged Beale party recruited and made to sign contracts? :laughing7: Ooopsie, there goes a few more lids!
The phrase was "signed the conditions".
...and you know the conditions to which they agreed?
 

The phrase was "signed the conditions".
...and you know the conditions to which they agreed?

Well, I don't know. Guess we'll just have to wait and see. If I did and I just put it out here without any "too long" explanation then the history of these forums has already determined how that information will be responded to. So, better to do it as I'm doing it now. Now we can allow for another 80-100 totally meaning and wasted and unaware premature post. :icon_thumright:
 

The phrase was "signed the conditions".

Yes, that's pretty much signing a contract or a drafted agreement requiring a signature.
PS: And if Beale was a party member, which he clearly was, then guess what? He was under contract too. :icon_thumright:

"The questions we allow ourselves to entertain will determine the answers acquired."
 

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"Big money always leaves a trail.." This is something I have said time and time again, all one has to do is to find that trail if it truly exist.
A while back I posed the question, "what happened to all of the wealth that was coming into Galveston Island once that government operation was shut down?" Sure, I already knew the answer before I asked the question but I wanted to allow enough time for the curious to possibly entertain that question for themselves. Well, some did entertain that question and a couple savvy folks did eventually find the correct and documented answer, and here it is;

"That the surplus will be applied towards the payment of the debts of the government contracted prior to the 15th of April, 1817, upon the express condition, however, that no one, who is not actually employed at the said port, shall enjoy the advantage of that arrangement, and that the old debts will be paid only to those who are actually employed at the port of Galveston."

Man, I can't tell how elated these folks were and what else they are starting to discover. :thumbsup:
Weren't the men in the alleged Beale party recruited and made to sign contracts? :laughing7: Ooopsie, there goes a few more lids!

1814 recruits including a particular leader with a French name?
 

1814 recruits including a particular leader with a French name?

I've always said that it is complex, the answer to your question not being so easily determined unless one knows if it was before, or after, April 15th, 1817. As I just displayed in article 3 of the amendments, one's place in the company and future potential earnings is determined by this date and when he took active part. But yes, you are correct in your current thinking. :icon_thumright:

Laffite's claims of restitution for his possessions that Patterson confiscated and also his claim of restitution for his sacrifices during the battle of New Orleans being these government debts in reference in article 3.
 

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I've always said that it is complex, the answer to your question not being so easily determined unless one knows if it was before, or after, April 15th, 1817. As I just displayed in article 3 of the amendments, one's place in the company and future potential earnings is determined by this date and when he took active part. But yes, you are correct in your current thinking. :icon_thumright:

Laffite's claims of restitution for his possessions that Patterson confiscated and also his claim of restitution for his sacrifices during the battle of New Orleans being these government debts in reference in article 3.
Until your suggesting looking at activities with the U.S. ...( not all in the U.S.) involving the French but more specifically Lafitte, his being a needed assistance in New Orleans ( of benefit to more than it's residents it turned out) was the limit of what I knew of his activity in the matter of who fought for what reason.
Not that I've gone much farther in digging after the island was abandon ,but Galveston picks up where school history left off Lafitte (&co.).
 

None of the dealings with Lafitte are mentioned in the Beale Papers.
Neither is Galveston, Campeche, Bolivar, or for that matter, New Orleans.
The Beale treasure story ws was and will always be a Virginia treasure story.
 

None of the dealings with Lafitte are mentioned in the Beale Papers.
Neither is Galveston, Campeche, Bolivar, or for that matter, New Orleans.
The Beale treasure story ws was and will always be a Virginia treasure story.

And there is the attitude that has always been the bane in this mystery, "at all cost, even at loss of the possible reality and truth, the narration, and every aspect about it, must remain a local thing." Problem is, the very nature of the tale takes you as far away as St. Louis and Santa Fe and the alleged key was even being held in a far away place. So Virginia must have really been a huge place back in YOUR day? :laughing7:
 

This is what the "American Beale party" was actually involved in, their "guide" actually in reference to that person/persons serving as advisors;

MESSAGE
FROM THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES,
COMMUNICATING INFORMATION
OF THE PROCEEDING OF CERTAIN PERSONS
WHO TOOK POSSESSION OF AMELIA ISLAND
AND OF GALVEZTON, DURING THE SUMMER
OF THE PRESENT YEAR,
AND MADE ESTABLISHMENTS THERE.

December 15, 1817.



A register of the proceedings at Galveston, April 15th, 1817.
The undersigned persons having appeared for the purpose of taking the necessary oath of fidelity to the Mexican republic, now in the possession of those who represent that nation in this quarter, which act having been executed with all the solemnity due to the occasion, appeared.
1. The citizen Louis Derieux, commandant, who took the said oath in the presence of the citizen Louis Itourribarria, after which the other authorities were severally sworn before the said commandant in regular form; and to establish its authenticity, it has been signed by all those who were present; and the said document, shall be kept in the office of said port or place, with the signatures, as well as that of the representative, so that its validity may, at all times be established. And not being able, from existing circumstances, to obtain a seal of state, its place will be supplied by a common one, until an official one can be procured.
(Signed) LOUIS ITOURRIBARRIA,
LOUIS DERIEUX, A. PIRONNEAU, Junr. J. DUCOING, ROUSSELIN, R. ESPAGNOL, LAFON JENTERIM.
Bay of Galveston, April 20th, 1817.


The commanders of the independent Mexican vessels of war, Assembled on board the schooner Jupiter, for the purpose of nominating, with the requisite formalities required by the authority, which in the name of the Mexican government, legitimately supports this nation, particularly in the existing war, carrying on against the Royalists of Spain, in consequence of which they have proceeded to pronounce an opinion on the following articles:

The undersigned captains and owners of vessels, now in this port, having met according to public notice, have taken into consideration the proceedings of the 17th of this month, under which they named the citizen colonel Louis Derieux, military commandant, the citizen captain A. Peronnean, junr. as adjutant commandant, the citizen, J, Ducoing, as judge of the admiralty, the citizen Rousselin, as administrator of the revenue, and the citizen R. Espagnol, as secretary of the public treasury; all of whom, have been recognized by the provisional assembly; and at the same time, the citizen Jean Jannet, was appointed marine commandant of the said place, with all the necessary powers.


And after due deliberation, all the members of this assembly unanimously resolved, that the duties which shall accrue from the prizes already arrived, or may hereafter arrive at the port of Galveston after condemnation being pronounced, shall be disposed of as follows;


1st. The treasurer shall pay on demand, (bisto bueno) on the order of the government of the place, every expense which may be necessary for the port or harbor of Galveston, for the support of the officers employed, and for munitions of war and other expenses fixed according to the claims and obligations of the several officers.
2dly. That when the expenses of one month are ascertained, those of the month following may be anticipated out of the funds in hand.
3dly. That the surplus will be applied towards the payment of the debts of the government contracted prior to the 15th of April, 1817, upon the express condition, however, that no one, who is not actually employed at the said port, shall enjoy the advantage of that arrangement, and that the old debts will be paid only to those who are actually employed at the port of Galveston.
4thly. That the salaries of the officers and others employed, will be regulated by a special council, and that the whole will be entered in the register of the deliberations.

The whole has been signed in the presence of the secretary pro-tempore, Lafon* L. Derieux, A. Peronneau, jun. John Ducoing, Rousselin, Jean Jannet, Richard Espagnol, Parisi, John Quere, Dutrieu, Denis Thomas, Faiquiere, Joseph Place, Renaud B. Lavard, Savary, Marcelin, Gilop.

Passport from Don Radmond Gil, lieutenant in the royal navy, to Mr. Casimir Prieto, captain of the brig Charles.

I, Don Redmond Gil, lieutenant of a frigate, having rank in the royal navy, captain of this port, charged with the branch of the naval engineers, and the superintendence of the merchant vessels in this province, member of the board of health of this place, on behalf of his majesty, and temporary commandant of the marine register of this province, &c. &c. Hereby certify, that Mr. Casimir Prieto, captain, pilot, and sailing master of the brig Charles, belonging to the United States of America, arrived in this port on the twenty-first day of the present month, from New Orleans, with a cargo of goods: that he declared and certified, that the Mexican privateer "Congresso Mexicano" opened his register and all his papers, and took away his sailing orders, and other documents, and carried off his mate. And to the end, that the said captain Prieto may make known to all whom it may concern, the proceeding of the said privateer, and be enabled to return with his vessel, to the port of his destination, I have granted him the present at Vera Cruz, this first day of July, 1817.


(Signed) RAMON GIL.
[Gratis.]
Nota. Free to pass, by permission of the government. To Tli. Federico Melas.
(Translation.)
I certify, that I visited the brig "Charles," under American colors, from New Orleans, and allowed her to proceed, after examining her papers.
At sea, the 13th June, 1817.
(Signed) L'ANGE,
Commander of the privateer "L'Amiable Aimee."

In article 3, above, this is in reference to those who were part of the "original" agreement/contract, all of this later activity being formed from that prior arrangement.So think in terms of corporate officers/stock holders, and employees. Thomas Beale, by the very nature of the narration, was an "elected officer" in charge of the recruiting of several men for specific task, this making him a man of elected position, as in one of those corporate officers, or stockholders in the, "perilous enterprise" being undertaken. :icon_thumright:
 

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"L'Amiable Aimee". Agreeable/likeable friend/love(if my French is remembered near correct). Quite a name for a privateering vessel.

No that is not all that was gleaned from your post.....:laughing7:
 

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3dly. That the surplus will be applied towards the payment of the debts of the government contracted prior to the 15th of April, 1817, upon the express condition, however, that no one, who is not actually employed at the said port, shall enjoy the advantage of that arrangement, and that the old debts will be paid only to those who are actually employed at the port of Galveston.
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[/I]In article 3, above, this is in reference to those who were part of the "original" agreement/contract, all of this later activity being formed from that prior arrangement.So think in terms of corporate officers/stock holders, and employees. Thomas Beale, by the very nature of the narration, was an "elected officer" in charge of the recruiting of several men for specific task, this making him a man of elected position, as in one of those corporate officers, or stockholders in the, "perilous enterprise" being undertaken...
Where is the mention of Thomas Beale in Article 3?
Forcing facts to fit a pet theory?
 

Where is the mention of Thomas Beale in Article 3?
Forcing facts to fit a pet theory?

You tell me as you apparently know everything that I know about what I haven't even detailed yet. :laughing7:

"SAVE VIRGINIA! SAVE ALL THE LOCAL LORE AND LEGEND FROM OUTSIDER INTERVENTION! MEN TO ARMS! MEAN TO ARMS! AGAINST THOSE THREATENING NORTHERN AGGRESSORS!" :laughing7:
 

"Northern Aggressor"......I love it! :laughing7:
 

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