Beale Poll....Fact or Fiction?

[bigscoop]

Question:
Has anyone ever found any "documented" evidence of a large sum of money from the west being lost track of while in route to the east within the time tables offered us in the Beale Pamphlet?

 

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[Rebel - KGC]

NAW... you? What ya got?

 

[bigscoop]

NAW... you? What ya got?

I've found two documented cases (possibilities), but oddly, they both end up in the same place while still out west. But from there the trail goes ice cold? But if I was able to find two documented cases then it makes one wonder how many were possibly not documented? Again...

 

[Rebel - KGC]

1885? Sounds INTERESTING!

 

[bigscoop]

Both were between the years 1817 - 1821.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

In THAT case, it would HAVE to be "Spanish Loot"!

 

[bigscoop]

In THAT case, it would HAVE to be "Spanish Loot"! 8)

Not really. White men were visiting the the general region on a regular basis between the years 1816 - 1821, but I think this has already been argued enough over the years. However, one thing that has always slayed me is the argument of "too many Indian attacks on the white man" because in reality you couldn't have all those Indian attacks on white men unless there were white men to be attacked, so clearly there must have been white men in the region during the period. Yes? If not, then there could have been no Indian attacks on white men. So either the attacks on white men is fiction, or white men being in the region is fiction. This you'll have to decide for yourself. History is often a curious two headed beast.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

I've found two documented cases (possibilities), but oddly, they both end up in the same place while still out west. But from there the trail goes ice cold? But if I was able to find two documented cases then it makes one wonder how many were possibly not documented? Again...

Is it something you can share?

 

[bigscoop]

I've found two documented cases (possibilities), but oddly, they both end up in the same place while still out west. But from there the trail goes ice cold? But if I was able to find two documented cases then it makes one wonder how many were possibly not documented? Again...

Is it something you can share?

I'm considering it. But I want to think about it a little while longer. Not sure if I want to give it up or maybe do something else with it?

 

[lastleg]

bs, take your time. We can wait.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

I've found two documented cases (possibilities), but oddly, they both end up in the same place while still out west. But from there the trail goes ice cold? But if I was able to find two documented cases then it makes one wonder how many were possibly not documented? Again...

Is it something you can share?

I'm considering it. But I want to think about it a little while longer. Not sure if I want to give it up or maybe do something else with it?

I can understand that.

 

[bigscoop]

bs, take your time. We can wait.

"We?"....oh no.....I've heard of it happening. How many of them are you seeing?

 

[lastleg]

Well, I can recall two popular treasure yarns that are completely unsubstantiated
but still hunted by eternal optimists.

 

[bigscoop]

Well, I can recall two popular treasure yarns that are completely unsubstantiated
but still hunted by eternal optimists.

True. And many more. But as you know, just because you/we can't find a truth doesn’t mean there is no truth to be found.

 

[lastleg]

What is surprising is the acceptance of a treasure yarn at face value without
attempting to find out whether the story/legend could have actually happened.
Most of the time you don't have to leave home to peg it as fantasy.

Say you read a book that claims French explorers mined for gold on
Treasure Mountain, CO. Without further research a person familiar with the
geology of TM can put this lead aside. The mountain was named for this
particular legend. The nearest actual gold discovery was at Summitville, CO.
Not far in miles but a world away geologicaly. You might be surprised at the
number of tenderfoots who scramble over ragged barren rocks on Treasure
Mountain annualy.

 

[bigscoop]

Can't argue that point lastleg, sure the tenderfoot thing happens a lot. But there are also situations that allow even the seasoned pros to miss seeing the forest for all the trees. I'm pretty sure the Beale mystery is one of these later cases. Not saying there is a treasure, but I think we're going to find that there is indeed a portion of truth behind this particular tale.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

The BEALE PAPERS has THREE "components"; the narrative... "it was in the SECOND year of the CONFEDERATE WAR"; the LETTERS of Thomas J. Beale to Robert MORRISS; and the 3 NUMBERS Ciphers, of which # 2 is ALREADY deciphered via the DOI (Declaration of Independence). What if, James B. Ward was the "agent of the author" bc the author was DEAD by 1885? MY "focus" is on the CONFEDERATE WAR "era" with ADDITIONAL info provided by the HART PAPERS; Newton H. Hazlewood is KEY in the HART PAPERS, as HE asked Clayton Hart to "copy" papers of "figures" alluding to a treasure near his home "close to" the Peaks of Otter, in Bedford County, VIRGINIA. We have on OFFICIAL documented records, and indicated by the book LYNCHBURG IN THE CIVIL WAR by George Morris & Susan Foutz... p. 96: NEWTON H. HAZLEWOOD - enlisted 5/26/1861 in Liberty, VIRGINIA.
SGT. 1/1/1863, 1st SGT. 1/1/1863, 2nd Lt. 12/1864... served to 12/64, and resigned... appointed Ordinance Officer.
The HART PAPERS has ONLY TWO "components", the narrative, and the 3 NUMBERS Ciphers, etc. BUT! the "lineup" of the NUMBERS are somewhat different, and MAY be a "correction" of the Beale Ciphers. MY R & I is on the HART-HAZLEWOOD Ciphers, now. Coffee?

 

[bigscoop]

The BEALE PAPERS has THREE "components", the narrative... "it was in the SECOND year of the CONFEDERATE WAR"; the LETTERS of Thomas J. Beale to Robert MORRISS; and the 3 NUMBERS Ciphers, of which # 2 is ALREADY deciphered via the DOI (Declaration of Independence). What if, James B. Ward was the "agent of the author" bc the author was DEAD by 1885? MY "focus" is on the CONFEDERATE WAR "era" with ADDITIONAL info provided by the HART PAPERS; Newton H. Hazlewood is KEY in the HART PAPERS, as HE asked Clayton Hart to "copy" papers of "figures" alluding to a treasure near his home "close to" the Peaks of Otter, in Bedford County, VIRGINIA. We have on OFFICIAL documented records, and indicated by the book LYNCHBURG IN THE CIVIL WAR by George Morris & Susan Foutz... p. 96: NEWTON H. HAZLEWOOD - enlisted 5/26/1861 in Liberty, VIRGINIA.
SGT. 1/1/1863, 1st SGT. 1/1/1863, 2nd Lt. 12/1864... served to 12/64, and resigned... appointed Ordinance Officer.
The HART PAPERS has ONLY TWO "components", the narrative, and the 3 NUMBERS Ciphers, etc. BUT! the "lineup" of the NUMBERS are somewhat different, and MAY be a "correction" of the Beale Ciphers. MY R & I is on the HART-HAZLEWOOD Ciphers, now. Coffee?

This is similar to the point I was trying to make in the first post of this thread......"if the unknown author of the Beale Pamphlet hadn't directed us to which cipher was C1 & C3, then how else would we have known which one was which?" He was the one who numbered the ciphers according to their length, prior to that there was no known order to them. This is why when cipher 2 claims that, "paper "1" will give us the locality of the vault so there will be no difficulty in locating it, etc.".......well, only the person who assigned 1,2 3, to the ciphers could have known that. Conclusion = the unknown author of the Pamphlet and the coder of C2, "had to be the same person." This is a fact that cannot be argued, because there is no other possible way. Period! But even so, this isn't proof that the story holds no measure of truth.

The only way the above cannot be true is if the author lied about how he arranged the ciphers in order of their length and then numbered them, and that prior to that there was no known order.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

 

[bigscoop]