AZ Unknown Mines

[chlsbrns]

Agreed. This forum is literally,
[h=1]Forum: Treasure Legends[/h] Legends of lost treasure, mines, shipwrecks, and other caches are usually based on historical fact. Use this forum to discuss various treasure legends.

That is the description of the forum - and just for the record, I seriously doubt that any of us believes every word of any of the various stories of the LDM or any other lost mine. The story may well be based on facts, yet in the re-telling, errors and falsehoods have gotten mixed in. This is part of why we discuss the in the first place to try to sort things out. Anyone that wants to "stick to provable facts" ought to stick to the known gold districts and known gold deposits, or look into criminal case law. Of course even in those fields, there are unsolved mysteries and "facts" open to interpretation.

I would also point out, that while many of our strongest skeptics are also very experienced, it is also true that some of our strongest skeptics have NEVER once gone looking for the Lost Dutchman. Kind of changes the color of the skepticism. A simile is how do you explain what it is like to catch a big fish, to a person that has never gone fishing? It is healthy to keep a skeptical view, but wise to keep the door open to new information. I think most of our skeptics here are of that view.

Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

Historical fact? I haven't seen a single verifiable fact about the LDM let alone an historical fact.

I was trying to figure out if any of the unknown mines could be any one of the numerous lost mines that are treasure legends. I can't help it that the thread gets taken off topic but I do prefer to set the record straight so as to stop the readers from spreading inaccurate information.

Could it be because oro doesn't want others to realize or comprehend that the LDM and I'm sure others are searching in Wilderness Areas that can never be mined? That the hundreds of holes that have been dug within site of Weavers Needle were part of the reason for the Wilderness Act? (verified info posted yesterday)

Has anyone noticed that the same people who claim that gold can't be mined profitably if it's below $1300/oz are the same people who claim that Wilderness areas can be mined by hiring lawyers, ect, ect,ect All of which would be a great expense and a total waste of money.

The same people who post in a thread that has nothing to do with any treasure legend and should be in a gold prospecting thread.
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/lost-dutchman-s-mine/382455-prospecting-ldm-hunting-stoners.html

 

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[Terry Soloman]

Wow! It's like "Hard Liquor and Handgun Night" on this thread. Who's ready for another beer?!

 

[L.C. BAKER]

It is impossible to loose a mine. You could be the only miner and die, but the mine is not lost. It is stationary and physically stuck in time in it's same hole. If it exists, then the only thing that is lost is the way there. It is also not possible to hide a mine even if you blow it up with dynamite and cave in the shaft. The ore is still in the same spot. What you need to do is find some hard evidence that there was a mine in the first place. If the name has been changed, it is the same mine. I would start at your county surveyors office. Just my 1.5 cents

L.C.

 

[chlsbrns]

So far none of the unknown/un named mines is in a location remote enough to be one of the so called lost mines in treasure legend stories but who knows? There really is not much chance of confirming that any of the numerous mines or any mine is one of the numerous treasure legend lost mines.

 

[Tnmountains]

Thread locked for review. Thank you.

 

[Tnmountains]

The use of foul language is not permitted on t-net in any language. To do so will cause and immediate ban from the site. Please read our rules and the TOS you agreed to…. to use this site.
Thanks and keep it civil and on track.
Happy Holidays.

 

[Somero]

Shouldn't this thread be in the Arizona sub-forum, just saying.

[URL=http://s1258.photobucket.com/user/AZbound11/media/Desert/cid_A9E79176AECA41D199220E5DF340913Acompany0d8d754_zps7913f598.gif.html][/URL]

 

[chlsbrns]

I don't think that checking USGS records of unknown/unnamed mines trying to find any of the numerous treasure legend lost mines should be in an Arizona sub-forum.

The thread below should be in gold prospecting forum as it has everything to do with a sluice and nothing to do with any treasure legend. But then again it is promoting illegal activity in a Federal Wilderness area so maybe it shouldn't be in any thread. Promoting illegal activity reflects poorly on all of us be it prospecting/mining or treasure hunting.

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/lost-dutchman-s-mine/382455-prospecting-ldm-hunting-stoners.html

Can we get back on topic now and provide verifiable facts as I have just done?

 

[Somero]

I'm related to the lost Dutchman... Jacob was a great uncle according to our family history book. He never left a map, so I don't think he wanted ANYONE to know its location if it even existed. Bet it's an interesting book though....

You are still avoiding the original question. What's it going to take for you to just provide verifiable proof of the LDM or any lost mine? Not to mention that it is Waltz's descendants that are claiming that Waltz traded salt for gold with humanoid creatures.

So did you come up with the stories? You never truly verified this. How's that proof of a child going? Did the folks on the phone help any?

The mine never existed in the first place. It was simply a ruse to cover up his embezzling from the mine where he was employed at the time.

Can you verify that it never existed?

It was taught in Arizona History when I was in high school, right here in Prescott, that the Lost Dutchman's mine was a story that was made up to cover up the theft of gold from the Vulture Mine. And that story is more believable than the story of the "mystery" mine that has caused so much stir in people.

HELP Burlington Co NJ

I'm a bit concerned that a teacher would give his opinion as factual information, what has happened to education these days.

Right here in Arizona or New Jersey, interesting. Are you in the N.W. part of Arizona or on the East Coast?




So why are you pushing this "unknown mine" stuff? You obviously seem to have an alternate agenda like others that have come to this forum to argue and belittle those of us that wish to discuss the LDM. One could almost surmise that after one "name" has gone away another takes there place and tries attacking members from a different route, i.e. Spirit Mountain. So we either have a person or persons who just wishes to soapbox and disrupt this forum for whatever reason.

Honestly this thread of AZ Unknown Mines should be on another sub-forum, but you chose our corner, and wonder why nobody wants to talk after you fail to understand what we are discussing and you insult and berate everyone. Seems you are just interested in confrontation, Good Luck with that.

 

[Cubfan64]

Against my better judgement someone asked me to look at the first post that started this thread...

Since verifying that the Waltz map is bogus and nothing more than a money maker for JULIA THOMAS SCHAFFER I've been looking in the correct area for unknown mines. Julia Thomas, Hermann Petrasch and Rhinehart Petrasch, did not travel toward the precipitous west face of Superstition Mountain on August 11, 1892. They in fact traveled in a different direction.

I've seen over 60 maps to lost/unknown mines/treasure in AZ including numerous Lost Dutchman Mines. I'm wondering if one on the multitude of UNKNOWN MINES listed in the PDF below are any of the lost mines or Lost Dutchman Mines. Not that anyone could compare ores as there are not samples and it's not possible to compare ores by sight alone.

I'm also checking in the culture geology and history and have found some great info!

It's starting to become apparent that there isn't a LDM that Waltz was a con man, theif, murderer, ect.

And in light of the last post:

Can we get back on topic now and provide verifiable facts as I have just done?

Since this is supposed to be a subforum entitled The Lost Dutchmans Mine under the heading Lost Legends, I wonder if I could make a request of the original poster to provide verifiable facts for the following statements made:

1) The Waltz map is bogus and just a money maker for Julia Thomas

2) Julia, Hermann and Rhinehart did not travel towards the western Superstition Mountains on 8/11/1892

3) Waltz was a con man

4) Waltz was a thief

5) Waltz was a murderer

Thanks sincerely

 

[sgtfda]

Wow! The Dutchman's kin. Calling Uncle Jake a thief, liar and murderer. Could you come to Dons camp next year and give a talk?

 

[393stroker]

Wow! The Dutchman's kin. Calling Uncle Jake a thief, liar and murderer. Could you come to Dons camp next year and give a talk?

... And show us where the mission is?

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Chistebens: you posted -->Your opinion is noted now can you back it up with facts?
~~~~~~~~~~~~

of course, many are shutting down in Mexico and south America.

If it costs me100 units, to produce something, and you will only pay 90, then i have no choice but to stop production normally.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[chlsbrns]

Waltz departed California in 1863, with the Peeples-Weaver Party or a similar group of prospectors headed for the Bradshaw Mountains of Arizona Territory. Waltz was one of the earliest pioneer prospectors in the Bradshaw Mountain area. Waltz's name appears on the Gross Claim which was filed in Prescott, Arizona Territory on September 21, 1863. His name also appears on a special territorial census taken in 1864. On this census Waltz is listed as a miner, 54 years of age, and a native of Germany. Waltz's name also appeared on a petition to territorial governor John N. Goodwin soliciting a militia to control the predatory raids of hostile Indians in the Bradshaw Mountains. Jacob Waltz's name also appeared on the Big Rebel and the General Grant claims in the Bradshaw Mountains.

It was taught in Arizona History when I was in high school, right here in Prescott, that the Lost Dutchman's mine was a story that was made up to cover up the theft of gold from the Vulture Mine. And that story is more believable than the story of the "mystery" mine that has caused so much stir in people.

I'm related to the lost Dutchman... Jacob was a great uncle according to our family history book. He never left a map, so I don't think he wanted ANYONE to know its location if it even existed. Bet it's an interesting book though....

The mine never existed in the first place. It was simply a ruse to cover up his embezzling from the mine where he was employed at the time.

But go ahead, and have fun storming the castle!

Book posits Lost Dutchman Mine is located near Prescott - The Prescott Daily Courier - Prescott, Arizona

I guess I should have made it perfectly clear that the text in the quoted post above was from the link at the bottom of the post.

Did anyone other than smearo think I was claiming to be related ect, ect? Or were you bright enough to know that the link was there to verify the text?

I'll be back later someone killed my frying pan with a pic and I need to go get a new one.

 

[Somero]

Damn Indians I guess?

Really................why belittle my family?

 

[Somero]

I guess I should have made it perfectly clear that the text in the quoted post above was from the link at the bottom of the post.

Did anyone other than smearo think I was claiming to be related ect, ect? Or were you bright enough to know that the link was there to verify the text?

Generally most start with "From this link" or whatever I found this info. So we are bright enough not to post information as our own.

 

[chlsbrns]

One of the unknown mines near the Bradshaw Mts is worth investigating. It may be one of the so called lost mines?

 

[chlsbrns]

Chistebens: you posted -->Your opinion is noted now can you back it up with facts?
~~~~~~~~~~~~

of course, many are shutting down in Mexico and south America.

If it costs me100 units, to produce something, and you will only pay 90, then i have no choice but to stop production normally.

Don Jose de La Mancha

Didn't you post an assay or something showing over 200ppm gold? That would be over 6oz per ton. In any event you can do as others do, hold the gold until the price goes up.

Can we get back on topic now?

 

[Somero]

Since verifying that the Waltz map is bogus and nothing more than a money maker for JULIA THOMAS SCHAFFER I've been looking in the correct area for unknown mines. Julia Thomas, Hermann Petrasch and Rhinehart Petrasch, did not travel toward the precipitous west face of Superstition Mountain on August 11, 1892. They in fact traveled in a different direction.

It's starting to become apparent that there isn't a LDM that Waltz was a con man, theif, murderer, ect.

Since this seems to be your topic, what has led you to think Julia and Rhiney went in a different direction?

What information has lead you to believe Jacob Waltz was an unscrupulous character?

Some insight into your conclusions would be helpful.

 

[chlsbrns]

somero I'm not going to play your game where you ask the same questions over & over again. I'm not going to waste my time!

Your questions have already been answered in this thread or another.