Atlantis

[Oroblanco]

Real de Tayopa wrote:

Aced again by that, that, hmmm., Wyoming cowboy./ sheep boy. Go clean the barn out or make coffee ORO heheheheheh

HAY!!! I reside in Dakota, not Wyoming! After all, you know what they say about Why-oming - it is the land where the Cowboys wear boots and the sheep are scared! Oh wait a minute, I DO work in Wyoming...er, uh, I take that all back!

Clean out the BARN? Not again! Sheesh and my gum-boots had dang near gotten clean from the LAST time!
Oroblanco

PS VERY interesting report amigos, tell us more!

 

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[Oroblanco]

It was an attempt at levity-humor.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hio ORO, Well put, and very cute also my friend. Keep em coming

Don Jose de la Mancha

 

[white dove]

!

Lordy, Lordy

What has this thread turned into, lol .

Brokeback mountain? city slickers, legend of curlys gold?

Okay, i still think it is in the Bermuda Triangle... Just way too much stuff happening there, Too much things going wrong, too much planes, ships disappearing without explanations, etc. Atlantis was a place of mystery, mysterious happenings, they all tie in to Bermuda Triangle.. I do not suppose me saying that i am part physic myself would help convince anyone either but i am physic, seen both my cousins get killed in car wrecks 2 weeks before it happened, seen my trailer burnt 2 weeks before an Arsonist set it on fire and burnt everything i had in it up, including the only photos i had of my mom who passed away from having cancer when i was 15 years old, Seen a murder take place in a church parking lot ( a church i happened to attended and thought it was me that was about to get killed, told the minister i was afraid i was going to get shot because i seen it happen but the image was so fuzzy i could not tell who it was, he did not believe me, i left that chuirch, then 2 weeks after the minister left a lady i had went to church with there had gotten shot and killed as well as her 4 year old daughter, etc ) so yep.. i am part physic.. sometimes it is good to see things other times it is not so good to see things.. now enough about me and my abilities.

Atlantis is buried under the waters in the Bermuda Triangle. Atlantis is much larger then told in the history books and writings, the mysterious crystals are very real and emiting dangerous rays out into the upper atmosphere. It is not just hairspray and things that are destroying our atmosphere, these crystals have a major part of what is destroying it. please do not ask me to explain it? i just know. You do not have to believe any of it if you so chose not to believe it. Obama will be our next president.. he is the last president we will ever have. He will make all of us to worship him and be muslum. He will stage a UFO invasion, this is already being done behind the scenes. this in turn will allow all countries to ban together as one world goverment to fight the aliens ( which are fake ) . Bible says their will be a strong delusion, well the strong delusion is the staged aliens landing here on earth to take over the World. Anti-christ = Obama, stands for blessed one = anti-christ = will be mixed race= obama= white and black parents, muslum and other religions= People will flock to him like bees to honey= obama= has crowds drawing to him like bees to honey, a change you can believe in? you better believe a change is coming, both to America and the World.. if Obama does not make president then i can officially say that for the first time in my entire 36 years of life i was wrong. Gas will continue to be higher and higher, shortages will continue, hurricans will be much worser this next year 2009, tornadoes, wildfires, and floods will take out many people this next 2 years. Volcanoes will erupt that have not be active for many years, including 2 we know not about yet! This next 2 years you will see what i write here is very much truth and when you look back upon these words i write in 2010 and if you can handle the truth of what comes next in the year 2011 feel free to pm me. believe it or not? that is your choice but it is about to happen.... prepare for it, cause my friends the Lord is about to return! * unless the days be shortened *

Sorry for the bit of preaching there my friends, but just remember this, these are trying times but the Lord will make things right, just do not lose your faith.

Atlantis is in the bermuda triangle!

 

[CanadianTrout]

White Dove, that is, ah, well, um an interesting read. You make some pretty wild claims there backing them up with things like "I'm physic" and "please don't ask me to explain it, I just know". How can you even say that? "Don't ask me, I just know". You sound like you're 12.

I'm sorry I'm trying not to make this a personal attack or anything, but you make it difficult with such an outlandish post. Obama is the anti-christ? Living in your trailer in back woods Tenn.; are you racist by any chance? Sorry folks, I think that that is a legitmate question based on what I just read above.

You wholeheartedly believe all that psychobabble you just spouted but then finish up with "the Lord is about to return". Am I to believe then that you have fallen for the greatest hoax ever perpatrated on mankind? "All ages can testify enough how profitable that fable of Christ hath been to us and our company." -Pope Leo X

Somewhere out there, a banjo is playin'....

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Relax Canadian Trout
How can a psychic ever prove a statement until the time for it to happen has passed? I have had psychics tell me of things that did happen, which were completely out of context with my then life style, Explanation?

I personally have had visions --hunches ?--- on the Tayopa campaign, which, while illogical at the time, proved to be true. Without these I probably could not have found Tayopa??

As for the religious overtone, Why not? It doesn't bother me one way or the other, why are you bothered by it?

Side question, how do you know that Obama "isn't" the anti Christ??

As for Atlantis, while a side colony may have been in the Bermudes, Atlantis itself, was north of the Azores.


Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Living in your trailer in back woods Tenn.; are you racist by any chance?

Somewhere out there, a banjo is playin'....

Isn't racism a form of stereotyping?
You consider yourself intelligent, but it seems you're not intelligent enough to go past stereotyping. You show yourself to be the --deleted-- one. What a shame.

Not that I believe in what White dove said...I don't. But anyway, now we know YOU for what you are.

 

[Oroblanco]

HOLA amigos,

Real de Tayopa wrote:

Side question, how do you know that Obama "isn't" the anti Christ??

While I realize that the question was directed to Canadian Trout, there are several keys to identify an Antichrist, the most important one being a public denial of Christ. Senator Obama has publicly stated his Christian faith, which an Antichrist must not do, an Antichrist must deny Jesus publicly. There should also be some "miracles" performed by this Antichrist, which kind of rules the Senator out unless we really stretch the concept of "miracles". I will propose that we already have an Antichrist on Earth who will "fit" with every criteria, namely Osama bin Ladin. He has denied Christ, he is "of our congregation" (in fact the bin Ladin family has very close ties to our presidents, and being Muslims believe in the same god as the Christians and Jews, and once even thanked the Arabian ambassador for bringing the US into the fight against the Soviets) and has performed "miracles" of destruction, killing thousands of innocent Americans and smashing down the twin towers in an orgy of violence, just as an Antichrist would want. He even claims to be the Messiah foretold in the Quran, just like the Maadi of Sudan did back in the late 1800's with very bloody and disastrous results. At least in the eyes of his followers his attacks and miraculous escapes from our troops are "miracles". So I would say that we already have Antichrist in the world, though I do hope not for much longer.
Oroblanco

PS My apologies for the off-topic post.

 

[white dove]

White Dove, that is, ah, well, um an interesting read. You make some pretty wild claims there backing them up with things like "I'm physic" and "please don't ask me to explain it, I just know". How can you even say that? "Don't ask me, I just know". You sound like you're 12.

I'm sorry I'm trying not to make this a personal attack or anything, but you make it difficult with such an outlandish post. Obama is the anti-christ? Living in your trailer in back woods Tenn.; are you racist by any chance? Sorry folks, I think that that is a legitmate question based on what I just read above.

You wholeheartedly believe all that psychobabble you just spouted but then finish up with "the Lord is about to return". Am I to believe then that you have fallen for the greatest hoax ever perpatrated on mankind? "All ages can testify enough how profitable that fable of Christ hath been to us and our company." -Pope Leo X

Somewhere out there, a banjo is playin'....

lol.. raciest? who me? lol.. i am white? yes i am a white person but my cousin is black and no i am not racist at all..

Anti-christ obama? well just let you figure that one out on your own dear.

yes i believe in jesus christ and God. and yes i see things before they happen, you either believe it or you dont, that makes no difference to me, when it happens, those that do not believe will or they will say it was a cowisidence right? 12 years old? lol i wish i was 12 years old, then my mom would still be alive and i would have taken better care of myself and would have made her go to the doctor sooner so they could have found the cancer earlier and she would still be alive, i would also go to the doctor sooner on my part so i could have found my cancer sooner and maybe it would be able to beat it instead of trying to fight it now and losing the battle such as i am right now.

there is more then you would even know or begin to understand, believe it or not their is something after death. i myself have attempted to take my own life more then once and did die ( according to the doctors i was clincly dead for 5 minutes, no pulse, nothing ) and i went to the otherside and seen many things. i know what lies ahead for me and i will never back down from that. how can i even say that? do you really want me to explain it to you? send me a pm and i will but i highly doubt you would understand unless you have really studied the bible and know quite a bit about death and dying among other things. some things one can not post online.. i have proof i died, documented medical proof, i have proof a murder took place at the church parking lot, search for murder at lantana church of christ, or sarah wyatt? here you go

http://s2.excoboard.com/exco/archive.php?ac=t&forumid=122532&date=09-13-2006&t=825205-1

i told the minister this would happen, but i thought it was me, i was wrong.. the things i see sometimes are fuzzy, like i said if obama does not become president then i was wrong for the very first time in my life and will admit to my wrong.

now can we get back to the subject of Atlantis please

hey joe, if bermuda is not Atlantist then what part is it of? what city is it part of? have any info?

 

[white dove]

HOLA amigos,

Real de Tayopa wrote:

Side question, how do you know that Obama "isn't" the anti Christ??

While I realize that the question was directed to Canadian Trout, there are several keys to identify an Antichrist, the most important one being a public denial of Christ. Senator Obama has publicly stated his Christian faith, which an Antichrist must not do, an Antichrist must deny Jesus publicly. There should also be some "miracles" performed by this Antichrist, which kind of rules the Senator out unless we really stretch the concept of "miracles". I will propose that we already have an Antichrist on Earth who will "fit" with every criteria, namely Osama bin Ladin. He has denied Christ, he is "of our congregation" (in fact the bin Ladin family has very close ties to our presidents, and being Muslims believe in the same god as the Christians and Jews, and once even thanked the Arabian ambassador for bringing the US into the fight against the Soviets) and has performed "miracles" of destruction, killing thousands of innocent Americans and smashing down the twin towers in an orgy of violence, just as an Antichrist would want. He even claims to be the Messiah foretold in the Quran, just like the Maadi of Sudan did back in the late 1800's with very bloody and disastrous results. At least in the eyes of his followers his attacks and miraculous escapes from our troops are "miracles". So I would say that we already have Antichrist in the world, though I do hope not for much longer.
Oroblanco

PS My apologies for the off-topic post.

good post oro , did you know that the anti-christ will prove to be a good person, making them to believe he really good.. am i wrong on the anti-christ? i may be wrong but obama stands for blessed one, it is in either the hebrew or another form but that is what obama stands for and notice how obama sounds similar to osama? maybe obama and osama are the same you know the anti-christ can do many things and signs of trickery. almost forgot, when the pledge of alegence is sung obama never puts his hand on his chest, want proof? http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-f...a-no-hand-heart-pledge-either-will-msm-notice

so how come

now where is atlantis? in the bermuda? other place

 

[CanadianTrout]

Living in your trailer in back woods Tenn.; are you racist by any chance?

Somewhere out there, a banjo is playin'....

Isn't racism a form of stereotyping?
You consider yourself intelligent, but it seems you're not intelligent enough to go past stereotyping. You show yourself to be the --deleted-- one. What a shame.

Not that I believe in what White dove said...I don't. But anyway, now we know YOU for what you are.

Stereotyping? Naw, I was profiling. It's a simple odds game. Odds are I (based solely on the content of the posts in question) may be correct. That's all.

I'm sorry White Dove but you paint a real tear jerker story and if any of it is remotely true than you have had a way harder life than me. I mean loosing your Mom at 15, loosing 2 cousins in horrible car crashes, being a psychic witness to a grisly double murder, and being able to positively identify the Antichrist is all, to say the least, quite a lot to absorb in a just a couple posts. Good luck with your health, there's unfortunately cancer in my family as well, I feel your pain.

I've seen politics, religion, psychics, the Bermuda Triangle, and finally Atlantis all discussed in just the last several posts in this "Atlantis" thread. If someone wants to throw all this wild stuff into it (even if any of it is true it would still be pretty wild) than I believe in this public forum they are opening these topics up for conversation.

Ok, back to Atlantis. It doesn't exist except in our minds and on paper.

Go Titans!

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good morning my friend C trout: You posted -->

Ok, back to Atlantis. It doesn't exist except in our minds and on paper.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Perhaps, yet many things with less factual (?) evidence have proven to be true. If I may be excused for repetition, Troy, Zimbabwe, and even Tayopa, were strictly legends with nothing to back them up. As for the Sphinx and the remains of the ancient cities found in various places, such as in India ??

The location of Atlantis in the giant caldera north of the Azores, fits the rumors, legends, etc almost perfectly. Is this strictly a co-incidence? we will probably never know until a scientific, well sponsored expedition can explore at the present depth. But, it's presumed location on the apex of the three, active, continental plates, where terrific seismic activity occurs, is almost too fitting to the story of it's end.

There was probably a secondary Center in the Bermudes since they were apparently a sea going Nation and would have encountered these lovely islands, hence our Dove LUV would also be correct..

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[cactusjumper]

Jose,

"The location of Atlantis in the giant caldera north of the Azores, fits the rumors, legends, etc almost perfectly. Is this strictly a co-incidence?"

"Almost perfectly" fits most of the "evidence" that is used to bolster the myth of Atlantis......Never quite bringing it into the realm of reality.

I will assume that each and every person who argues for the existence of Atlantis, on this Forum, has taken the time and effort to read Plato's Republic, followed by Timaeus and Critias. By reading those works, in that order, a truer perspective on the likelyhood that Atlantis is a fable generated by Plato's thoughts of the "ideal state" can be reached.

If those works alone are the basis for your beliefs, you are missing huge chunks of the puzzle that shows the entire picture of the truth. For some scholarly opinions on the "evidence", I would suggest "Atlantis: Fact Or Fiction?". Edited by, Edwin S. Ramage and with J. Rufus Fears, S. Casey Fredericks, John V. Luce, Edwin S. Ramage, Dorothy B. Vitaliano and Herbert E. Wright, Jr. as contributors.

You may come away, after reading all of those works, with a different opinion on the existence of Atlantis. The minimum you will receive, is a great deal more knowledge on the subject of Atlantis.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good afternoon CJ mi real buddy: Unfortunately, those books are not readily available in Mexico, however just for orneriness, I would tend to negate them. Again, referring boringly to Tayopa, The Jesuits themselves have repeatedly stated that they never did any mining, yet ? How more negative can your main source be? When someone attempts to second guess what someone in the past was thinking or attempting to present they lose me.I

Until something is proven to exist, it is quite easy to debunk it's probable origin. The following exist, but where did the ancient huge cites in India originate? When and who built the Sphinx? Why does the bible say that the Lord created two worlds, He destroyed the first then rebuilt our present one - I will not get into theology or politics, a no win proposition, but I will on this subject.

There appears to be a grain of truth in this since only a cataclysmic destruction could explain the OOP artifacts which are turning up from time to time. Our mutual, respected friend ORO, can undoubtedly present a multitude of such things, things which orthodox science cannot, nor will not attempt to explain..

The one thing that is extremely curious and tends to give body to the claim of Atlantis existing is the simple fact that regardless of the truth of the documents, they, the physical description, and the location tend to fit together nicely.

The odds of any ficticional story from the distant past, fitting a present location, which would be impossible for them to imagine, which also would be subject to the precise seismic action as described and in the apparent time frame are a bit astronomical for pure chance, no?

En garde with Cholla swords?

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[cactusjumper]

Amigo,

Changing the topic away from Atlantis does nothing to further the debate that it ever existed. The only source for Atlantis is Plato, and he did not think the story important enough to finish. Plato's good friend Socrates usually plays a major role in the dialogs that Plato recounts, but he says very little in Timaeus and Critias.

The following is a plan of Plato's Atlantis by, J.V. Luce.

The descriptions of the city from Critias and Timaeus are enough to discount the entire story as pure fiction.

Take care,

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

Keeping 9,600 B.C. in mind as the era for the destruction of Atlantis, read the description of the city which starts about half way down the page in the following link:

http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/critias.html

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Oroblanco]

HOLA mi amigos,

Joe wrote:

The only source for Atlantis is Plato, and he did not think the story important enough to finish.

You are mistaken on this point amigo, as we have covered before. Diodorus Siculus has as much or more information on Atlantis than Plato wrote, while other sources have only brief passages but still informative (Aelian, Plutarch, Pliny the elder, Strabo and others) or you can look at the Holy Bible, specifically Genesis in the story of the great flood of Noah, which Ignatius Donnelly was convinced was actually telling of one and the same event as the destruction of Atlantis.

You can read any number of dismissive works that deny Atlantis on various grounds, if you wish to take the position that Atlantis never existed then you have a series of problems to deal with.

• First - a legend or myth of a very ancient culture that was destroyed by a great flood, and flood myths are virtually universal among all cultures of the world. If there was no such great flood, why do such myths exist?
  
• Second - you must explain how and where agriculture began, which without some Ice Age civilization to explain it, must have some other explanation and place of origin. I would like to know exactly when Bananas were first domesticated for one example, since Bananas have been domesticated SO long that even the scientists are afraid to guess at when mankind first started growing it deliberately - they almost never even produce seeds today and cannot survive being transported through a cold region! So how did they get to such far-flung places as the Americas and SE Asia, if not for the agent of human transport?
  
• Third - explain the events that unfolded at the end of the last Ice Age, when glaciers retreated suddenly and sea levels rose even more suddenly all around the globe, something like 500 feet total rise but at least 100 feet in a single year. Do you say that such an event would have virtually no effect on any humans that were alive at the time? It is a proven fact (today) that ancient man lived by the seas and made his living from the sea, which is a good provider in many areas.
• Fourth - who built the Sphinx? The water damage to the stone surfaces show that it is MUCH older than what the conventional historians are claiming, dating back right to the time period where Atlantis is supposed to have existed.
• Fifth - if Plato was simply making up a story (and using a geographic place name that was in use at least 100 years before his time, re- Herodotus) then it was very far from a "perfect society" since the Gods chose to destroy it. How does that make them a perfect society? It sounds more like the story of Genesis, with the people being virtuous at first but over time de-generating into a violent people more concerned with conquest and destruction than virtue, which is punished by the Gods or God in the form of a great flood. So how is Plato's Atlantis a "perfect society" parable?
  

This is just for starters - for when we remove Atlantis or SOME KIND of Ice Age civilization from the equation, then we are left with even greater mysteries in our collective history. For one, why is there such a story at all, if nothing like it ever existed? It makes no sense if viewed that way.

Speaking of Herodotus, have you checked with a Greek historian yet about the meaning of the name Atlantis? I am no expert on Greek but it really does mean "the island of Atlas" and the way Herodotus uses it is as "the sea of the island of Atlas" literally. It really is written in Herodotus in that exact spelling in Greek too. So if Plato made it up, why do we find the name being used and referring to an ISLAND in the Atlantic by Herodotus over 100 years earlier? (I thought we were going to switch sides on this debate amigo? I have a whole set of arguments to use! Oh well if we don't use them here I can sure use them for that book.)

Here is a pic of the Road to Atlantis

As Real de Tayopa mentioned, most historians and many scientists simply will not even attempt to explain such things as OOP artifacts. <begin RANT> It is one of my pet peeves, from a number of incidents experience of trying to get SOME kind of "expert" to take a look at things. I probably mentioned this before but in one example, I sent photos of a stone tablet that had some letters and an image of a man on it to one of the foremost experts in epigraphy and asked him if he could tell me what it says, and any other information he could tell from the photos. He wrote back and said it was very easy to read as it was early Phoenician or very early Greek, and said "goddess of the night" or "queen of the night." He asked me where this stone amulet was found, and when I told him it was dug from a stone vault in Maine, he wrote back and told me that I could NOT mention his name in any way to connect him with that find! It is a case of "career protection" NOT to even look at such "heresies" for he would face ridicule and perhaps risk losing his job. So I don't hold it too much against them individually, but DO wish that they would at least LOOK at things. <end RANT>

Good luck and good hunting Joe and everyone, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

Hello Roy,

Did anyone build a snowman by those tracks

Atlantis seems like something we should be able to kick around for awhile. I have a better pictures of cart tracks that were found in the Superstitions. Don't tell bb.

Are you saying that Diodorus Siculus describes Atlantis in more detail than Plato? I don't deny that the name Atlantis existed long before Plato. Once again, you will run into a problem of time.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Fascinating Gentlemen: go go. I still claim that the series of independent data over centuries, being so closely aligned, is astronomically in favor of a positive factor -- Atlantis had / has to exist, and precisely where we, the TN members, have located it, on the giant Caldera at the junction of the three continental plates.

As for our Plato, I rather imagine that he, having heard of it and of it's basic description, proceeded to use literary license to bolster his projection and point with more precise, imaginative data. The same is being done with the Lost Dutchman thingie today.

Obviously I agree wholeheartedly with ORO on his reference to modern Historians, Archaeologists, etc. as witness my efforts to show them the sites of the giants, the little ones, the giant serpent that I encountered on the Rio Fuerte at Tubares, etc., or - snicker - Tayopa.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Kentucky Kache]

• First - a legend or myth of a very ancient culture that was destroyed by a great flood, and flood myths are virtually universal among all cultures of the world. If there was no such great flood, why do such myths exist?

• 
  
  Its called confirmation.