As the story was written....."the source"....

[tat2guy]

To find info I use google lol

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

A Handbook of Civil War Bullets and Cartridges - Grab it through Amazon!

[Rebel - KGC]

I think you've either read a completely different story or simply manufactured a completely new one of your own.

The Beale Papers: "Containing Authenticated Statements Regarding the Treasure Buried in 1819 and 1821, Near Bufords, in Bedford County, Virginia,.."

Which is a COVER STORY... gotta read the HART PAPERS by George Hart, too.

 

[bigscoop]

Which is a COVER STORY... gotta read the HART PAPERS by George Hart, too.

I've read all of that stuff....from one simple reference in the entire book it suddenly becomes an entire Civil War story? I think you need to go to the Tiki-bar and rethink this local/southern romance notion where the tale becomes entirely about the Civil War.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I've read all of that stuff....from one simple reference in the entire book it suddenly becomes an entire Civil War story? I think you need to go to the Tiki-bar and rethink this local/southern romance notion where the tale becomes entirely about the Civil War.

LOL! EVEN Peter Viemeister's last book got the CSA "thing"... Confederate Treasure Coverup...
Sections on "it' in Chapters of BEALE TREASURE: NEW HISTORY OF A MYSTERY, Chapt. 16 (pg. 134-140); FOCUS on Chapt. 22 (pg. 166-173). HH!

 

[bigscoop]

LOL! EVEN Peter Viemeister's last book got the CSA "thing"... Confederate Treasure Coverup...
Sections on "it' in Chapters of BEALE TREASURE: NEW HISTORY OF A MYSTERY, Chapt. 16 (pg. 134-140);FOCUS on Chapt. 22 (pg. 166-173). HH!

Did Viemeister draw a conclusive end? NO, he didn't, he just presented research materials and possible theories, nothing more. All of that old ground has been turned and turned and turned for years without any significant new discoveries. "If" there is any truth to the tale then that truth resides somewhere yet explored.

For instance, did you know the US Bank paid off a significant portion of it's "Asian" trade deficit with Silver from Mexico in the 1820's? This coming in the heals of the panic of 1819. Even prior to this the US Bank was receiving Peruvian and Mexican silver. Most people don't realize this but it's true. Stephen Girard was the second Bank's largest stock holder and he was also on the board of a directors, and in his private employ was a man known only as Beale, his job description only being listed as a runner. At the time of the alleged Beale deposits Girard was trying to locate a western port for his "Asian" merchandise so he could access the interior and even the east coast quicker, remember, there was no Panama Canal at this time so everything had to go all the way around South America. Point is, Girard was already doing business with Asia, which might just be why a Beale in a US census of the period only listed his residence as being, "China."

What is important here is that the period in question effects the same exact period in which the Second Bank of the United States was in serious trouble, this also coming at a time when the United States has entered those treaty talks with Spain. As part of that treaty agreement the US was responsible for paying 5 million in spoliation fees, money they scarcely had, so where did they get the money? How did they pay of that trade deficit with China? Why did the US really give up the neutral zone during the Adams Onis Treaty?

During the Adams Onis Treaty De Onis had some measure of leverage but it is never clearly spelled out what that leverage was? What we do know is that "establishing trade" was of most importance to both countries at this time. All we know for sure at this point is that two deposits came in perfect accord with the signing and then the ratification of the Adams Onis Treaty.

Clearly we are talking HUGE money, not even possible that a few men could find and purify that much hard rock ore in so little time as the story details. And when we look at the ten year term one has to consider the following as well: You can't put hard money into a bank when that hard money would have to be used to pay off debts that you could otherwise renegotiate. One also has to remember that the Second Bank of the United States was in serious trouble so any hard money placed into its reserves would then be at great risk if the bank collapsed. So what do you do with it if you must remain in absolute control of those funds? Given its critical importance, how do you safely transport it from point A to point B?

So clearly there are other areas that need further investigation.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

CLEARLY, YOU did not have a dialogue with PV, like I did... it WAS his "conclusion". His last book was a novel as FACTION... fiction based on FACTS! You have to know "local" history to know who the "players" were... AND! HART PAPERS tell MORE!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Info came from the RAGLAND family papers, which PV had access to. Confederate Treasure Coverup

 

[bigscoop]

CLEARLY, YOU did not have a dialogue with PV, like I did... it WAS his "conclusion". His last book was a novel as FACTION... fiction based on FACTS! You have to know "local" history to know who the "players" were... AND! HART PAPERS tell MORE!

You seem to draw much more from the Hart papers then is actually there. And I did have some "brief" exchanges with PV and even he admitted that the CSA possibility is very thin "when compared to the actual pamphlet story." What I have learned over the years is that locally there seems to be a "ingrained romance" with the story that simply will not allow it to leave the local nest or that of the CSA, another area of romance shared locally. What I find most interesting in all of this is that the core of the story was never even about the CSA or the era in which the Civil War took place. "The only thing" even referenced in the story that even comes close to the CSA is the simple reference made by the unknown author that it was during the second year of war he first learned of the tale, and that's it! All else takes place many years prior in real locations of that earlier era and also depicting real people of that earlier era. "All else" in regard to the CSA has been conjured up by the local romance of it all. And despite your dialogue with the man, PV was aware of this local romance with the tale.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

And he NEVER once, alluded to YOUR "French connection"; NONE of his books, NONE of his "talks".

 

[bigscoop]

And he NEVER once, alluded to YOUR "French connection"; NONE of his books, NONE of his "talks".

Exactly! Now you're seeing the same local romance I'm speaking about. None of the local researchers would/have allowed themselves to look beyond what they could/can create locally. Fact is, as the story goes, none of the men who visited the Morriss Inn were known to Morriss, and yet he supposedly knew everyone far and wide. Add to this that, as the story goes, Morriss never even knew for sure where Beale hailed from. In fact, as the story goes, nobody in the Bedford area knew where Beale hailed from. Yet locally, Beale and all of his companions simply had to be from Bedford county. Period! So you are "exactly" correct when you point out that PV never looked beyond the local romance of it all.

All I'm suggesting to you is this....."if" there is any truth to the tale, especially after all of the local research that has been done without turning up one shred of credible evidence to the contrary, then that truth must lay somewhere else and not in Bedford county. This isn't to say it didn't go down in Bedford county, only suggesting that the original source/party wasn't from Bedford county.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Beale Code # 3 tells you that, ALTHOUGH! TOO short! I think Beale Code # 1 is long enough for names & addresses... BUT!
Local history fits the story BETTER! Don't NEED BC # 1 or 3; they are just "RUSES"...

 

[bigscoop]

Beale Code # 3 tells you that, ALTHOUGH! TOO short! I think Beale Code # 1 is long enough for names & addresses... BUT!
Local history fits the story BETTER! Don't NEED BC # 1 or 3; they are just "RUSES"...

Depends. I could give you the residence of thirty men in one sentence if they could all be found in the same place. Another short paragraph to list their names. As far as the location, here again it could be done in a single sentence depending on the location, given this possibility, C1 suddenly becomes far too long. Ruses? Perhaps. Or, could be the real story rest in those ciphers. At present, we simply have no way of knowing either way.

All I'm suggesting is this.....there are other possibilities out there, so why not investigate those other possibilities?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Depends. I could give you the residence of thirty men in one sentence if they could all be found in the same place. Another short paragraph to list their names. As far as the location, here again it could be done in a single sentence depending on the location, given this possibility, C1 suddenly becomes far too long. Ruses? Perhaps. Or, could be the real story rest in those ciphers. At present, we simply have no way of knowing either way.

All I'm suggesting is this.....there are other possibilities out there, so why not investigate those other possibilities?

LOL! NOT interested in "other" possibilities (DISTRACTIONS); YOU can, tho... may YOU find YOUR French Connections ROMANCE!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Depends. I could give you the residence of thirty men in one sentence if they could all be found in the same place. Another short paragraph to list their names. As far as the location, here again it could be done in a single sentence depending on the location, given this possibility, C1 suddenly becomes far too long. Ruses? Perhaps. Or, could be the real story rest in those ciphers. At present, we simply have no way of knowing either way.

All I'm suggesting is this.....there are other possibilities out there, so why not investigate those other possibilities?

You DO have a "point"... THIRTY men from VMI in Lexington, Va.

 

[bigscoop]

LOL! NOT interested in "other" possibilities (DISTRACTIONS); YOU can, tho... may YOU find YOUR French Connections ROMANCE!

Exactly. The locals simply have no interest in the search for truth, if in fact they're is one. In fact, they can't afford to have that truth discovered somewhere else because they're too personally invested locally. This is the general course of legends, they become so ingrained in the local lore they become attached to the community, even providing those communities exposure, and in some cases revenues, etc. Heaven forbid the real roots to the mystery may actually rest somewhere else. That possibility simply can't be entertained and all other possibilities MUST BE shut down and discouraged immediately. The box has been built and it will forever remain in that tiny box, truth or otherwise. "The Beale legend belongs to us. PERIOD!" It's a mindset that right from the start is incapable of searching for the truth, if in fact there is one to be found?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Exactly. The locals simply have no interest in the search for truth, if in fact they're is one. In fact, they can't afford to have that truth discovered somewhere else because they're too personally invested locally. This is the general course of legends, they become so ingrained in the local lore they become attached to the community, even providing those communities exposure, and in some cases revenues, etc. Heaven forbid the real roots to the mystery may actually rest somewhere else. That possibility simply can't be entertained and all other possibilities MUST BE shut down and discouraged immediately. The box has been built and it will forever remain in that tiny box, truth or otherwise. "The Beale legend belongs to us. PERIOD!" It's a mindset that right from the start is incapable of searching for the truth, if in fact there is one to be found?

LOL! "Put-down" of "The Locals", eh...? YOU have "the Truth", eh...?

 

[craftsman]

Hey to all
same argument I had a few years back and
with the same posters. I suggested a bigger box for them, but to no avail.
along this line of thought, the place the ore comes from is the Elk Mountains in Colorado

 

[ECS]

Hey to all
same argument I had a few years back and
with the same posters. I suggested a bigger box for them, but to no avail.
along this line of thought, the place the ore comes from is the Elk Mountains in Colorado

That is if one accepts the story in the 1885 Beale Papers as true.
Once one does step outside the "box" of the Beale story,one can percieve all the holes that make one fill with their personal theories.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Read the HART PAPERS, too by George Hart; Hart = HEART, BIG KGC indicator...

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I know where the thirty men were from, when they left and where most of them lived that went along. Clayton Hart was looking for something in particular and I found it.

DO tell...