As the story was written....."the source"....

[ECS]

Purcell from pikes expiditions

"The Southwest spelled Sante Fe for that far Mexican metropolis of the Spanish settlements,Pike had reported upon it;in 1806 he had found there one James Purcell(or Pursley),an American from Kentucky already domiciled"
-Col Christopher Carson from "KIT CARSON DAYS (1809-1868)" c1914 A C McClurg & Co,Chicago,Il

 

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[lastleg]

tat2guy, for a definitive account of the Pike/Purcell connection see "Great River" by Paul Horgan.
There have been questionable conclusions drawn on this thread I won't go into until I review the
CD mentioned. Two geneologists in my family have been to Kentucky and searched all available
records concerning the Purcells in that state. They came there from Virginia so more background
data could be in exitstence that confirms James as a son of Thomas Purcell.

 

[bigscoop]

It may not qualify as an answer that you seek. I was only trying to show you that the information you seek I wrote about it 24 years ago. You have a lot of research to catch up on. Good Luck with your French connections, I have been there and it is the wrong road too. I actually found the Beale Treasure. You want to buy the land it is buried on?

Glad you found yet another treasure. You should start a museum like Mel Fisher did.
As for the research....I seriously doubt that we're talking anything close to the same avenues taken.

You need to examine/research this:
http://dictionary.search.yahoo.com/...HNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkAw--?p=found&.sep=

 

[bigscoop]

Here's what's being looked into at present:


After a great deal of research I am 95% convinced that the region referenced in the Beale pamphlet is in fact the same region in Colorado that was ceded to the US during the Adams Onis Treaty.


I actually like the possibility that ECS wasn't that far off when he suggested that the author of the pamphlet simply used existing writings in the creating of the Beale pamphlet, makes for a very reasonable possibility. However, there are two huge factors that suggest this wasn't the case.


I could understand one of the dates of deposits falling in line with the signing and ratification of the Adams Onis Treaty, this being simply coincidence, but when both dates of deposits are unmistakeably coinciding with both of these events with such exactness then coincidence has to be ruled out, the odds against such a coincidence being staggering. This can only mean that those deposit dates were either by author design or that that they were indeed real dates of deposits. Either way everything points to the Adams Onis Treaty having some significance in the tale.


Of additional interest in the Beale Pamphlet are the names offered, Marshall, Clay, Coles, Witcher, all of these men played a vital role in two areas, the first being that great debate over what would later be coined Manifest Destiny, and the second being their strong connection to James Monroe. What's interesting here is that James Monroe played pivotal roles in both the Louisiana Purchase and the Adams Onis Treaty. And in case you're having trouble placing him, “Cole” was Monroe's personal secretary.


Most of those who have researched the Beale mystery have done so from a treasure hunting perspective rather then from a political perspective, which I now believe the case to be. When we look at the Adams Onis Treaty we initially see Spain and the United States but there were other interest involved in, and holding influence over, those treaty negotiations. In fact, it now appears as if there was quite a bit of interest in the outcome of that ceded region in Colorado, perhaps none more concerned then Mexico. Third parties have always influenced treaties, so why not here as well?


The two deposits came from west to east in near perfect timing with, and after, both the signing and ratification of the Adams Onis Treaty. After the treaty had been ratified several key players changed their position on western expansion, this even including Jefferson himself. The question is, was there a different reason for this change of position then what history tells us? All the evidence reviewed and collected so far suggest that there was.

 

[tat2guy]

It may not qualify as an answer that you seek. I was only trying to show you that the information you seek I wrote about it 24 years ago. You have a lot of research to catch up on. Good Luck with your French connections, I have been there and it is the wrong road too. I actually found the Beale Treasure. You want to buy the land it is buried on?

Franklin you are 100% right. You found this info years ago, but we understand the evidence in two different ways. I wish you well and the best of luck in your recovery. I'll be the guy in the back of the crowd cheering you on

HH Tat

 

[lastleg]

Topographically bigscoop's theory is very questionable. To get to the "Colorado wedge" would have
meant crossing the San Juan Mtns, a very precarious feat. If you have been and explored SW CO
like I have you might reconsider. Also my source said the "wedge" had been claimed by Texas
prior to Adams-Onis. Virginia and Texas were far more removed than seems likely for a mutual
conspiracy in those primitive times.

I'm sure Jefferson was stirred by the rich natural resources visited by the prior western expedition.
But hearing of something and implementing a wider expansion was a harder proposition. I always
go back to my knowledge of Colorado geology that tells me the Pamplet story was total fabrication.
The "wedge" is west of the mineral zone anyway. This fact can be ascertained quite easily, check
out "Colorado's Mineral Zone".

 

[bigscoop]

Topographically bigscoop's theory is very questionable. To get to the "Colorado wedge" would have
meant crossing the San Juan Mtns, a very precarious feat. If you have been and explored SW CO
like I have you might reconsider. Also my source said the "wedge" had been claimed by Texas
prior to Adams-Onis. Virginia and Texas were far more removed than seems likely for a mutual
conspiracy in those primitive times.

I'm sure Jefferson was stirred by the rich natural resources visited by the prior western expedition.
But hearing of something and implementing a wider expansion was a harder proposition. I always
go back to my knowledge of Colorado geology that tells me the Pamplet story was total fabrication.
The "wedge" is west of the mineral zone anyway. This fact can be ascertained quite easily, check
out "Colorado's Mineral Zone".

It sounds to me that you're still under the assumption that I'm suggesting the region in question was the source of the two deposits, which I am not. What I am suggesting is that the region in question is in fact the same general region referenced in both the Adams Onis Treaty and the Beale Pamphlet. As for the two deposits, all I'm suggesting is that they were, in some way, relevant to the signing and ratification of that same treaty and that they had something to do with the region in question.

Look, if you are a third party interest who has a vested interest in the region in question then the outcome of that treaty could very well impact that vested interest. On the other hand, if you could buy the terms of the treaty in such a way that your vested interest is protected then those deposits/payments could have been made in the same timely fashion as described in the Beale Pamphlet based on the satisfying of a prior agreed arrangement. In other words it could have worked something like this; "OK, you got the treaty signed to our satisfaction so here is half of the agreed payment, and when you get that treaty ratified to our satisfaction we'll deliver the remainder."

The first deposit was said to be made nine months after the treaty signing.
The second deposit was said to be made ten months after the ratification.

The above two dates of deposit can't be coincidence. Nor can it be coincidence that the region eluded to in the Beale Pamphlet happens to be the same general region ceded in Colorado. It matters not where those deposits came from, they could have just as easily come from next door and they could have just as easily been deposited in the bank of America. All that really matters is that the author is making it perfectly clear that they were apparently in some relationship to the Adams Onis Treaty and the ceded region in Colorado. All I'm suggesting at this time is that it appears that the author picked those dates of deposits, the period in which the tale takes place, and the region in question for a very specific reason.

 

[lastleg]

I think our present incompetent AG could blow holes in this far-reaching theory, but maybe not.

 

[bigscoop]

I think our present incompetent AG could blow holes in this far-reaching theory, but maybe not.

Far reaching? Maybe, maybe not? In a recent search of archived material a map was discovered that details a plot of land in northern Texas on the Red River as being, "Beale's Grant". This map is dated 1835, which means it is too early to be Edward Fitzgerald Beale, so who exactly was this Beale?

In a search of the Girard collection (Tat is still investigating) we encounter "Beale" again, this time only being listed as a, "runner". (A runner was someone intrusted with delivering of important messages, payments and shipments, etc.) Girard himself would soon be invested in silver mining and land speculation in Colorado.

And when we look at what would later be coined "Manifest Destiny" we find that many opinions/positions changed following the Adams Onis Treaty, this even including Jefferson himself.

Is it by coincidence that the author even eludes to the party members as being men of wealth and means? In a recent search Tat has even found a document/form that strongly mimics the terms and conditions that each of the party members supposedly agreed to and signed.

And there is more. So just pointing out that the horse is far from being dead just yet.

And let me add, there really is no "theory" at this point, however, we are still looking for all those little details that might allow us to come with one.

 

[lastleg]

It sure is getting interesting alright. I think I'll watch this forum more closely since everyone is
on board with "no treasure here, move along now".

 

[bigscoop]

It sure is getting interesting alright. I think I'll watch this forum more closely since everyone is
on board with "no treasure here, move along now".

That's your choice/opinion, for sure. But for some of us "truth" is a treasure and we're just making certain that we fully understand the real boundaries of the tale in question. This, for some of us, is about way more then just a possible physical treasure that most certainly no longer exist even if it was real at one time.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Carry On!

 

[bigscoop]

Just for giggles, then, let's toss something around.
"Who stood to gain enough that they would make timely installments after the Adams Onis Treaty was signed in 1818 and then again after it was ratified 1821?"

 

[lastleg]

My vote is for the shopkeepers who anticipated the western expansion.

 

[ECS]

Just for giggles, then, let's toss something around.
"Who stood to gain enough that they would make timely installments after the Adams Onis Treaty was signed in 1818 and then again after it was ratified 1821?"

Now how does this relate to the writing and publishing of the "Beale Papers" in 1885,60 years after thr Adams-Onis Treaty?
What then did Ward have of selling it in the Lynchburg area?
Its not like he was selling state secrets.

 

[bigscoop]

Now how does this relate to the writing and publishing of the "Beale Papers" in 1885,60 years after thr Adams-Onis Treaty?
What then did Ward have of selling it in the Lynchburg area?
Its not like he was selling state secrets.

Uh.....two deposits......both nine and ten months after the signing and then the ratification of that treaty. When you read the pamphlet the actual events are said to take place in 1817-1822. By description the origin of those deposits were from the same general ceded region in Colorado that was part of that 1818-1821 treaty. So who, during that treaty, stood to gain something so valuable that they might have been willing to pay for it? It's just a question that's possibly worth exploring. If you don't want to participate then don't. There is no theory here, no hidden preconceived conclusions, it's just a question.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Oh! I thought the deposits were made: 1st - when "Robert MORRISS" alluded to THE SECRET in 1863 or so (1st deposit); then in 1865, as Richmond, Va. "fell" & Lynchburg, Va. was VIRGINIA State capital for @ 4 days... (2nd deposit). Hmmm...

 

[bigscoop]

Oh! I thought the deposits were made: 1st - when "Robert MORRISS" alluded to THE SECRET in 1863 or so (1st deposit); then in 1865, as Richmond, Va. "fell" & Lynchburg, Va. was VIRGINIA State capital for @ 4 days... (2nd deposit). Hmmm...

I think you've either read a completely different story or simply manufactured a completely new one of your own.

The Beale Papers: "Containing Authenticated Statements Regarding the Treasure Buried in 1819 and 1821, Near Bufords, in Bedford County, Virginia,.."

 

[tat2guy]

The wealth is in knowing the truth. Is it a hoax or is it a story of 30 wayward friends? Ok about me, I love history and mysteries. So this topic is perfect for me. As some of you know I'm not a cipher guy so I attack the history. So is there gold there idk. Would I like some if found, sure. Is it the end of the world if I don't get any, hell no. For me the treasure is hearing the true story weather it's Lafitte, KGC, the French, or Bill Clinton. Please understand this, I don't care who did it, I don't care who finds it, I just want to know the truth and see how my investigating skills stack up to what becomes the truth. Carry on now this concludes my rant.

HH Tat

 

[shan123]

Can anyone tell me how to post a pic to find out info on something