are school yards private property

[Tom_in_CA]

.... I tell them, show me in writing. Case close.

Well, I'd be careful with that Samuel. They could show you something silly like .... "alter" and "deface", or "harvest" and "remove" type clauses. And do you really think you're going to win that debate of semantics ? Of course not.

Sometimes better just to give lip service. And ... in the future, pick times when such nosy-parkers aren't present.

 

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[RVRoamer74]

my, oh my, aren't we having quite the discussion......

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Treasure-hunter, when I first read your posts, I failed to see some curious wording (see in bold below)

Re.: Florida:



Re.: Georgia



Hmmm. So wouldn't a person be in compliance when they politely complied ?

Tom, the answer to your question is the difference between 1st degree trespass and 2nd degree trespass, your still trespassing. It is 2nd degree trespass if you do not have permission to be on the grounds, it is 1st degree trespass if you refuse to leave when told. It is armed trespass if you have a weapon on you on school grounds and a weapon means more than a firearm, it means knives and any sharp tool. Armed trespass is a third degree Felony.


The crime of Trespass on School Grounds or Facilities is defined in Section 810.097, Florida Statutes. Under the law, a trespass occurs where the defendant enters or remains upon school property without authorization or a legitimate business purpose, or where the defendant enters or remains upon school grounds after being told by administrators not to be present.
Thus, the offense can occur in two scenarios: (1) Trespass on School Grounds or Facilities (no prior warnings from administrators), and (2) Trespass on School Grounds After Warning by a Principal or Designee.


November 9, 2016 A New Future

 

[G.I.B.]

I bet Jerry Brown doesn't have a "No Metal Detecting" sign on the lawn of the governor's mansion.

It's paid for by tax dollars, so that means it's public property, and, belonging the public of California...

He probably doesn't have a sign by the mansion's pool saying, "No crapping in the pool."



Let us know how that all works out for you guys.

 

[G.A.P.metal]

Well this kind of metal detector prohibition/laws must be territorial.
I hunted for 25 years 1969 to 1991 in Elmira,Corning,Watkins Glen,Ithaca ,Waverly,N.Y. and many more little towns even into northern PA.....not just once but a lot of times,had a car at 16
Every school,park,ball field,fair ground and never ounce did i have any trouble, i did ask permission at churches,and private homes.
In the my early days of detecting the cops and people would stop just to look at the detector,and ask is that a Geiger Counter,or see what i had found...never any trouble.
Once i was in a big park in the middle of down town Elmira N.Y. the kind of park that only has benches and statues,no sports field at all,beautiful lawn about 5 inches down in the dirt... plug flipped back.
I`m poking around in the dirt and i see a pair of very shinny shoes and dark blue pants.yep a cop staring down at me "Gulp"
Hi am i in trouble...he laughs out loud and asks Y what did you do ?. he was just curious about what i had found.
I never asked that question again .
Never heard of anyone getting into any trouble for detecting or arrested....and this is in N.Y.
I live/hunt in the country/fields 99% of the time now....but go to the parks,schools some times...not the good looking kid....but an older man big full beard,wearing old dirty bib overall sticking out like a sore thumb and still no trouble.
So this must be territorial.... OR.... to many new people asking Can I ?
Gary

 

[b3y0nd3r]

I have a public school with the football area mark with signs "Private property no trespassing". Is that legal?

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Many times what was legal years ago is no longer legal. School officialss cracked down on access to their school grounds years ago.............. I have hunted some school grounds, but I also asked permission to do so. Private property is still private property no matter who owns it, the excuse "its a public school" is not legal grounds to trespass....

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Tom, the answer to your question is the difference between 1st degree trespass and 2nd degree trespass, your still trespassing....

I looked up what you're saying, and understand now. Thanx.

Oh well, it goes back to whether a school is posted or fenced (as so many are nowadays). If one is, then the variations/degrees of "trespass" (irregardless of public vs private property) comes into play.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I bet Jerry Brown doesn't have a "No Metal Detecting" sign on the lawn of the governor's mansion.....

But I bet there's some other rule they could invoke when telling you to "scram".

... He probably doesn't have a sign by the mansion's pool saying, "No crapping in the pool."
.

First off, anyone with some discretion and common sense, would already know to not detect at a sensitive historic monument (even when no sign is present). Nor a high-security political home or military base with MP's marching about.

But as for other places of discussion, when it comes to whether or not lack of a rule (silence on the subject) makes it ok or not: The line of reasoning you cite has been posted before. Eg.: "If there's no rule forbidding crapping in the pool, does that mean it's ok ?"

Don't you see what's implicit in the question ? To the person hearing that question/analogy, they can obviously sense the "inherent evil" of "crapping in a pool". But for the analogy to hold consistent and true, we must assume that md'ing also is: "inherently evil". I do not start with that premise. I consider md'ing to be: healthy, educational, beneficial, nutritious, wise, harmless, etc....

 

[bmacd88]

I'm gonna throw my two cents in here from a law enforcement officer perspective (20 year veteran).

If there are signs posted saying "no trespassing" then, no, you don't go in. If you do, you are breaking the law, including at a school. If there are no signs, there is no need to ask first. Why get a "no" answer right away when if you went without asking, maybe nobody cares. If someone does care, they tell you "please leave" and then you just leave. I think the majority of times that people write they were yelled at to leave is because after they were asked to leave, they try to argue why they are allowed to be there.

If by chance they call the police first, all the officers are gonna do is ask you to leave. Nobody is gonna have their gear confiscated or get arrested.

By law, the only way the officer can arrest you is if there is a posted "no trespassing" sign. If there is no sign, then there has to be a private citizen who places you under arrest. This means that the person in charge of the property has asked you to leave and then you either refuse or you leave and then come back. At that point, the person has to make a private citizens arrest and must show up to court and testify against you. The only times I ever see this happen are for habitual trespassers, not first timers.

So to sum, if there are no signs and you have not been told to not be there, go ahead and detect. Why ask for permission and draw attention to yourself in the first point. Maybe there are no issues and you have a productive day. But maybe you get confronted. If so, then you apologize and leave. No legal problems, no police involvement. The problems are gonna come when you don't swallow your pride and start trying to argue your point.

Keep in mind I am referring to places such as school, parks, playgrounds, etc. I am not referring to places that are obviously off limits.


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[b3y0nd3r]

thank you for the responses

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Bmacd88, welcome to the forum, and thanx for your reply here. And thankyou for your service to the public, doing a stressful job like that ! Interesting to hear from someone with LEO experience, as an fellow hobbyist.

.... If there are no signs, there is no need to ask first. Why get a "no" answer right away when if you went without asking, maybe nobody cares. If someone does care, they tell you "please leave" and then you just leave.....

That's my bee in-my-bonnet contention And now we're hearing it straight from someone who's "been on the other side"

However, the usual come-back line from the skittish crowd will be this: "It gives a black eye to the hobby", and "could lead to rules being written". I disagree, d/t the following:

a) Conversely, someone asking where it wasn't necessary to ask (and/or no one would have noticed or cared), could EQUALLY (or more-so in my opinion), "lead to rules". It just puts a sort of image to the person fielding your question of something amiss or wrong or harmful, such that you needed to ask (lest why else would you be asking, if the activity were innocuous and harmless?). Thus the very act of asking, can caste aspursions on your activity. Thus simply lending itself, to the "easy" and "safe" answer.

b) So guess what happens the next time that pencil pushers sees another md'r out there? He recalls the earlier inquiry, and thinks "aha! There's one of *them* ". And starts booting others.

c) Lastly, it's sort of circular logic anyhow. Because if someone was "booted", how can that lead to a "rule" ? Because, gee, if they "just got booted", then logically, there must've been some "rule" that was invoked, to have booted them in the first place ?? So how can any added layers of "rules" change that ? Therefore the "black eye" and "leading to rules" notion doesn't hold much weight.

.... If by chance they call the police first, all the officers are gonna do is ask you to leave. Nobody is gonna have their gear confiscated or get arrested....

Another of my contentions ! And again, hearing from the other side of the equation ! Anytime the discussion of "can or can't you detect a certain place" comes up, the sobering caution of "tickets", "jail" and "confiscations" can come up. I've seen this many times. But then at a certain point, you have to ask yourself and them: "Is there any actual examples of this ?" And then you hear the sounds of chirping crickets. And if any examples CAN be shown, they are invariably for someone night sneaking an obvious historic monument, or someone who can't take a warning, or somehow being obnoxious, etc...

..... By law, the only way the officer can arrest you is if there is a posted "no trespassing" sign.....

Just to be clear, in California, a fence also qualifies as constituting as a "sign" as well.

 

[bmacd88]

Bmacd88, welcome to the forum, and thanx for your reply here. And thankyou for your service to the public, doing a stressful job like that ! Interesting to hear from someone with LEO experience, as an fellow hobbyist.

Thank you very much Tom. Much appreciated in today's environment.

Another of my contentions ! And again, hearing from the other side of the equation ! Anytime the discussion of "can or can't you detect a certain place" comes up, the sobering caution of "tickets", "jail" and "confiscations" can come up. I've seen this many times. But then at a certain point, you have to ask yourself and them: "Is there any actual examples of this ?" And then you hear the sounds of chirping crickets. And if any examples CAN be shown, they are invariably for someone night sneaking an obvious historic monument, or someone who can't take a warning, or somehow being obnoxious, etc...

Exactly. The majority of times the officer starts talking about tickets, arrest, confiscation is going to be when the MD'r starts telling the cop he is wrong and that he has a right to be where he is. In the end, maybe you do. But is it really worth the hassle of an argument and then possibly a ticket or arrest and having your gear taken all to waste your time and money later in court to prove you were right?

Just to be clear, in California, a fence also qualifies as constituting as a "sign" as well.

Spot on Tom on all points Tom. And thanks for adding the fence to my post. And thank you very much for the words of appreciation.


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[Honest Samuel]

Well, I'd be careful with that Samuel. They could show you something silly like .... "alter" and "deface", or "harvest" and "remove" type clauses. And do you really think you're going to win that debate of semantics ? Of course not.

Sometimes better just to give lip service. And ... in the future, pick times when such nosy-parkers aren't present.

I am not going to worry myself sick thinking about the future. I just worry about things when they happen.

 

[sprailroad]

Everything here has pretty much been covered, and every place is different, I have never had a problem on school grounds thus far, and I only go on weekends. But this is something I started doing some time ago JUST in case. I carry a small bucket for trash of course, and with all the junk in it, I also have a Hypo needle I picked up in a park, (less the "needle part", AND two rounds of DUG ammo, that I have also found in parks, that are in my coin pouch, say a .22 & 9mm, IF ever confronted say in a park or school ground, I will agree to leave, no problem, but I do show them the trash (ie the Hypo) and the two rounds of ammo. Only had to use it one time, and all of sudden, it was OK for me to be there. Go figure.

 

[RVRoamer74]

good thinking, bet their jaw dropped seeing the hypo.....😲

 

[Snap on Man]

Wear a safety vest and everyone assumes you are locating utilities

Absolutely right. That is what I have posted many times on different web sites. I clip my name tag to my vest and go about my business. I don,t look over my shoulder to see who is watching me. If you don't mind wearing a hard hat, put that on. If you don,t want to be bothered don't look suspicious.

 

[Snap on Man]

Everything here has pretty much been covered, and every place is different, I have never had a problem on school grounds thus far, and I only go on weekends. But this is something I started doing some time ago JUST in case. I carry a small bucket for trash of course, and with all the junk in it, I also have a Hypo needle I picked up in a park, (less the "needle part", AND two rounds of DUG ammo, that I have also found in parks, that are in my coin pouch, say a .22 & 9mm, IF ever confronted say in a park or school ground, I will agree to leave, no problem, but I do show them the trash (ie the Hypo) and the two rounds of ammo. Only had to use it one time, and all of sudden, it was OK for me to be there. Go figure.

I do the same thing you do. I keep everything dangerous I find in a old peanut butter jar for easy viewing. Like I have said in other posts, yellow vest, name tag, and look professional. NO PROBLEMS.

 

[Honest Samuel]

# 78 sounds good to me. Good hunting and good luck.

 

[Honest Samuel]

Public school property are for the public to use. Go after hours and week-ends.