are school yards private property

[G.I.B.]

I don't think Florida is the only state that thinks this way-


228.091 Trespass upon grounds or facilities of public schools; penalties; arrest.--
(1) Any person who:
(a)1. Is not a student, officer, or employee of a public school;
2. Does not have legitimate business on the campus or any other authorization, license, or invitation to enter or remain upon school property; or
3. Is not a parent, guardian, or person who has legal custody of a student enrolled at such school; or
(b)1. Is a student currently under suspension or expulsion; or
2. Is an employee who is not required by his or her employment by such school to be on the campus or any other facility owned, operated, or controlled by the governing board of such school and who has no lawful purpose to be on such premises;

and who enters or remains upon the campus or any other facility owned by any such school commits a trespass upon the grounds of a public school facility and is guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

Public access property does not mean free reign to go and do whatever you want. Get permission.

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

...... We really need a civics class in school. Get permission, it is private property, you don't own it.

kayakpat. Sure, we don't "own it". As you say, it's "owned by the school district". But isn't the school district a public entity ? Taxpayer funded and so forth. Right ?

I guess what I'm trying to say is: If we follow your logic trail further, then so too are parks "private property". Since, of course, they're owned by the city. Ie.: you and I don't "own" the parks either. So by your logic, we should have permission for parks too then ?

Bear in mind that what I'm saying is OUTSIDE the scope of "rules governing use". Because, by all means, if some public property (like a school) had a "no trespassing sign" on it, you can elect to obey it or not .

 

[cudamark]

I figure that if others get to use the school grounds for recreation without verbal or written permission, such as playing ball or using the playground, then I don't need it either. If they have a problem with me detecting, they'll tell me and I'll leave. I try not to overthink this. School grounds around here are a quasi-government property....sorta like the military bases. Not openly public like a park, but, not treated like private property or an historical site either. Rules vary from school to school and subject to the whims of the ones running and maintaining it. Go there at off hours when no children are there.

 

[G.A.P.metal]

Over at the "Basketball Forum" all the street players are wondering if they can play at the local school ground.
Over at the "Base Ball Forum" all the lot players are wondering if they can play at the local school ground.
and the "Hop Scotch Forum" is all a titter at using the school yard.
The "Dog Walkers Forum" go there to let their dogs do their business
The "Frisbee Forum" just won`t try and so on !
Nonsence !
Gary

 

[Deft Tones]

Late to the party. But anyone that can afford roughly $50 month can get a personal liability policy for one million dollars coverage. Sounds like the insurance is typical to contractors, vendors, event organizers, etc... not common joe with a detector.

That is all.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Over at the "Basketball Forum" all the street players are wondering if they can play at the local school ground.
Over at the "Base Ball Forum" all the lot players are wondering if they can play at the local school ground.
and the "Hop Scotch Forum" is all a titter at using the school yard.
The "Dog Walkers Forum" go there to let their dogs do their business
The "Frisbee Forum" just won`t try and so on !
Nonsence !
Gary

Gary, good post. Let's put it this way: If those persons who jog the track, shoot hoops, and walk their dogs at school yards, had gone ahead of time asking the school district "can I do such & such at the school grounds after hours", they probably would receive a "no". Then THEY TOO can start hopscotch player and dog-walker forums "lamenting their lack of freedoms".

The difference between those persons who jog the track, use the hopscotch, etc... and md'rs is this: We md'rs (some of us anyhow) think we have an obligation to grovel and ask wherever we go. Versus those dog-walkers and kite-flyers don't feel the need to ask. Shame on them.

I'm convinced that if I went to my city hall and asked: "Can I please stand at the corner of Main St. x 4th St, tomorrow at noon, wearing a suit made of tree bark and bird-seed sprinkled on my head", that .... this "pressing question" would get passed back and forth between various departments. And I'd probably be told I need a parade permit, insurance, parking variance, etc.... On the other hand, if I just simply went and did it, I'd probably be ignored . Same psychology for md'ing: Sometimes no one cares .... TILL you ask.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

School grounds are owned by the school boards and are not public property, if you don't ask permission you are trespassing.... Public entrance doesn't necessarily mean public property, Treasurenet has public entry but it is a private own business.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

School grounds are owned by the school boards and are not public property. If you don't ask you are trespassing....

Really ? I don't doubt that if there is a "no trespassing" sign there, that ... yes, you would *technically* be trespassing (along side those playing ball, walking their dog, etc...). But what if there isn't a no trespassing sign present ?

And isn't "the school board" a public entity ? Last I checked, they were tax payer funded . No ? I'm not saying that "makes it right to metal detect" (afterall, there might be a sign). But just questioning whether it's necessarily private property.

There's scores of public property that disallow people (certain parts of the White House, the pentagon, the public library after closing time, and so forth). But that doesn't make them "private property", does it ? Public property can have restrictive rules of use, yet they're still public property none-the-less.

 

[kayakpat]

The parks are public access and are also either owned by the city, county ,state etc, and they do set rules that close them at time, like at night some places or other restrictions. You do not have rights to the property to do what you want. The owners whether city , county, state or whatever the citizens of that entity have elected or appointed caretakers and managers and they can set rules up.

 

[kayakpat]

Yes they are owned by city, county, twp, boro, state or feds or whatever, that is not logic , it is how they are aquired, setup , managed, and owned

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... You do not have rights to the property to do what you want. The owners whether city , county, state or whatever the citizens of that entity have elected or appointed caretakers and managers and they can set rules up.

Correct. So if there is no rule at the school ground that said "no metal detectors", and if there is/was no "no trespassing" signs, then ...... can't you and I detect them ?

 

[RVRoamer74]

No one will give you written permission !!!! They would be putting their behinds in a sling....in this neck of the woods, we just select our school site to hunt carefully......we know what we can get by with.....and 'they' for the most part don't care....selective hunting.....

Leave no mess and 'Blend'.....

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Really ? I don't doubt that if there is a "no trespassing" sign there, that ... yes, you would *technically* be trespassing (along side those playing ball, walking their dog, etc...). But what if there isn't a no trespassing sign present ?

And isn't "the school board" a public entity ? Last I checked, they were tax payer funded . No ? I'm not saying that "makes it right to metal detect" (afterall, there might be a sign). But just questioning whether it's necessarily private property.

There's scores of public property that disallow people (certain parts of the White House, the pentagon, the public library after closing time, and so forth). But that doesn't make them "private property", does it ? Public property can have restrictive rules of use, yet they're still public property none-the-less.

Tom, no matter how many times you go down this same road, the result is the same. School grounds are private property.

Here is florida law...

The 2016 Florida Statutes

Title XLVI CRIMES Chapter 810 BURGLARY AND TRESPASS View Entire Chapter [SIZE=-1]810.097 Trespass upon grounds or facilities of a school; penalties; arrest.–(1) Any person who:(a) Does not have legitimate business on the campus or any other authorization, license, or invitation to enter or remain upon school property; orb) Is a student currently under suspension or expulsion; and who enters or remains upon the campus or any other facility owned by any such school commits a trespass upon the grounds of a school facility and is guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083. (2) Any person who enters or remains upon the campus or other facility of a school after the principal of such school, or his or her designee, has directed such person to leave such campus or facility or not to enter upon the campus or facility, commits a trespass upon the grounds of a school facility and is guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s.775.083. [/SIZE]

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Here is Georgia's law...

[FONT=&quot]O.C.G.A. 20-2-1180 (2010)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]20-2-1180. Loitering upon school premises or within a school safety zone; penalty; required check in of visitors; posting signs of required check in [/FONT]


[FONT=&quot](a) It shall be unlawful for any person to remain upon the premises or within the school safety zone as defined in paragraph (1) of subsection (a) of Code Section 16-11-127.1 of any public or private school in this state or to remain upon such premises or within such school safety zone when that person does not have a legitimate cause or need to be present thereon. Each principal or designee of each public or private school in this state shall have the authority to exercise such control over the buildings and grounds upon which a school is located so as to prohibit any person who does not have a legitimate need or cause to be present thereon from loitering upon such premises. Each principal or designee of each public or private school in this state shall notify the appropriate law enforcement agency to prohibit any person who does not have a legitimate need or cause to be present therein from loitering within the school safety zone.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot](b) Any person who:[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot](1) Is present upon the premises or within the school safety zone of any public or private school in this state and willfully fails to remove himself or herself from such premises after the principal or designee of such school requests him or her to do so; or[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot](2) Fails to check in at the designated location as required by subsection (c) of this Code section[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of a high and aggravated nature.[/FONT]

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Treasure hunter, thanx for taking the time to post that. Each of those 2 posts would be prohibit "non legitimate use". Ie.: uses that are not school related. And I definitely agree that such verbiage (that is probably evident in all 50 states) could be said to dis-allow md'ing . Heck, even "loitering" there (hence shame on those playing basket ball or jogging the track). So we totally agree on this .

The things you posted are basically "rules of use and access". They are not saying that the schools are not still public property.

But even if we compromise and call them "public property", I agree that even public property has rules of use. So too could someone finds rules such as those, that .... if someone cared to, could dis-allow md'ing in a public park as well: Eg.: "alter", "deface" "annoy", etc....

I guess it all boils down to "feel". Because as many people (like RV roamer's post just now) show, there are places where .... well ..... a person can be "over-thinking" it with worry.

 

[G.I.B.]

That's hilarious.

No sign means I can.

 

[Keith Jackson]

I haven't bothered to look up the exact rule/law but I know that out local high school is posted that the tennis courts and track may be used by the public after school hours but before dark or something, as long as no school or other organization that may have arranged use of the facilities are using them.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I haven't bothered to look up the exact rule/law but I know that out local high school is posted that the tennis courts and track may be used by the public after school hours but before dark or something, as long as no school or other organization that may have arranged use of the facilities are using them.

Ok, then in that case, you have what is know as an "express allowance". As opposed to an "express prohbition". But don't forget, there's always the in-between status of "silent on the subject". Ie.: neither expressly allowed, nor expressly forbidden

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Treasure-hunter, when I first read your posts, I failed to see some curious wording (see in bold below)

Re.: Florida:

..... (2) Any person who enters or remains upon the campus or other facility of a school after the principal of such school, or his or her designee, has directed such person to leave such campus or facility or not to enter upon the campus or facility, commits a trespass upon.....

Re.: Georgia

.....(1) Is present upon the premises or within the school safety zone of any public or private school in this state and willfully fails to remove himself or herself from such premises after the principal or designee of such school requests him or her to do so;.....

Hmmm. So wouldn't a person be in compliance when they politely complied ?

 

[Honest Samuel]

Correct. So if there is no rule at the school ground that said "no metal detectors", and if there is/was no "no trespassing" signs, then ...... can't you and I detect them ?

Yes, we can. As I stated before, if anybody tells me that I cannot search public schools, I tell them, show me in writing. Case close.