Apache of the Superstitions

[cactusjumper]

I have not been able to find any record of Apache living in the Superstitions despite researching the question for many years. There is little doubt they used the Supe's for a hideout when things got dicey for them, and as a fairly safe route going to or from their home on the north side of the Salt River. Those would have been Tonto Apache.

I don't doubt that others may have used the range, but the premise of this topic was having a way of life that was developed for the range. The Apache, even the Tonto were never there in numbers large enough to develop a society based on this location.

I would welcome any facts which show's that to be in error.

Joe Ribaudo

 

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[bevo]

nothing in particular just good paripherel reading

 

[cactusjumper]

bevo,

Thanks for the information. Believe I will pass on Mr. Brown's books.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[bevo]

chep.

 

[cactusjumper]

Anyone know what happened to Ahstacy? Started this thread and then faded out of site.

Joe

 

[Cubfan64]

Anyone know what happened to Ahstacy? Started this thread and then faded out of site.

Joe

Not a clue - the person I've been wondering about is Ken! He wasn't at the Rendezvous last fall, hasn't posted here for a long time and I've PM'd him a few times with no responses. Anyone heard from him?

 

[cactusjumper]

I'm not up to the level of "Spirit", but then there's only one (1) of me. I don't claim to have spent a good part of my childhood on the San Carlos Reservation.......or even to have been there. Most of my sources are books, good ones, and a few friends who know the people on the reservation.

Here are some posts concerning the Tonto:

Lost Dutchman Gold Mine - Arizona Superstition Mountain Wilderness - Gold Mining ? View topic - Tonto Apaches

Hope folks can find some value in them.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[roadrunner]

sorry for the late reply.
the only "apache" camp i know of in the area are the remains of a small settlement at queen creek-highway 60.
the camp overlooks queen creek, between picketpost an superior.

Any idea of where this might have been or is now?
I will see if I can find anything on it.

 

[somehiker]

Might be talking about Oak Creek/Devil's Canyon.
But that's on the east side of Superior.
The BLM just traded it to a mining company for a bunch of scrubland to the south.

 

[cactusjumper]

Don,

Can you tell us what was found at the site that tagged it as Apache?

Thanks,

Joe

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

the site i mentioned is at the bridge on route 60, just as you enter superior. east side of the bridge, is covered in
pottery shards, stone tool chippings, rock circles for the shelters...
locals told me it was apache, back in 1960's.
no rocks are made into walls, only for anchoring brush..
the rock circles convinced me it was apache...though i was suprised to see pottery shards.

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

ok..should have read further into the thread.
this site is not between superior an globe..or oak flats or devils canyon.
it is just as you enter superior on route 60...on the north side of queen creek. as soon as one crosses queen creek, south of superior, pull off to the east side of the road,
an old construction equipment yard is there, walk through to the creek bed, the closer one comes to the creek, the more evidence of an encampment are found.

 

[lacal]

The Ak-Chin were from the Phoenix area and they have a museum: Ak-Chin Him-Dak Museum in Maricopa, AZ | Arizona Office of Tourism I have spoken to a few Apache including one who was a historian and they claim the Apache would not take gold since they did not believe in taken anything from mother earth. They claim that if the Apaches took gold from those they killed they would have buried back in the earth. They would not eat fish or snake was something else they told me. I was also told that there were plenty of hiding areas that have not been disturbed since they were put there. That the Apaches would leave these hiding areas along the trail as they went into Mexico on raids. Of course they would not even give me any clues, but said they are there if you know what to look for. That said, I find it interesting that they do mine things like , copper, jade and peridot to make jewelry so not sure how true the story of the gold is, but may have applied to the early Apache before they traded with tourist.

 

[cactusjumper]

ok..should have read further into the thread.
this site is not between superior an globe..or oak flats or devils canyon.
it is just as you enter superior on route 60...on the north side of queen creek. as soon as one crosses queen creek, south of superior, pull off to the east side of the road,
an old construction equipment yard is there, walk through to the creek bed, the closer one comes to the creek, the more evidence of an encampment are found.

Don,

Would that be pretty close to the RV park?

Joe

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

sorry joe, didn't know there was an RV park in superior..haven't been over there in a few years.
it is just below the old bar/cafe/dance hall...dancing was upstairs...

 

[cactusjumper]

Don,

What was your opinion of the shards? Did they resemble the Apache style?

There are some defensive type rock walls, such as what you have described, near the southwestern slope of the supe's.

Thanks for your replies,

Joe

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

joe,
the shards are typical of sinagua, some black on white, mostly red...the rock circles are but one rock tall...not much defense there.
i plan to take some photos this winter...there is that old mine i want to document, so a few pics of this site are no problem.

this site was occupied by migrant people...before the mine poisoned the water, it would have had good growing conditions for corn, beans, squash.
not a good winter site, as the wind comes off apache leap

 

[cactusjumper]

joe,
the shards are typical of sinagua, some black on white, mostly red...the rock circles are but one rock tall...not much defense there.
i plan to take some photos this winter...there is that old mine i want to document, so a few pics of this site are no problem.

this site was occupied by migrant people...before the mine poisoned the water, it would have had good growing conditions for corn, beans, squash.
not a good winter site, as the wind comes off apache leap

Don,

Sounds like it's not an Apache camp. In the past, as you know, many other tribes were identified as "Apache". If the shards are Sinagua, they likely date too early to be Apache. The type of material used in the pottery would be another clue as to the shards being Apache or not.

I would be interested to know what you turn up on your next visit the site.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Springfield]

joe,
...the rock circles are but one rock tall...not much defense there...

Those breastworks were not defensive positions - they were ambush sites. Below is one in Cookes Canyon, just above the stage road. The Apaches killed 400 within a two mile stretch there back in the day - even with Ft. Cummings in sight. Many graves are still on the side of the old road - they were buried where they fell.

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

sorry springfield, the circles i speak about are small rocks..around 5 inches in dia. not anything like the photo you posted...
i will get some photos up as soon as possible.

also..400 KIA within two miles? i'd sure like to read that report.