✅ SOLVED Any Ideas what this Brass item is??

[BuckleBoy]

Hello All,

I found two of these items--flat brass items with two holes for rivets/nails in them. They looked at the time like they would have some sort of stamping on them, but both are plain... The older one has some design and it is cast. It also has a part of an old nail still in one hole of it...








I found this one online that was stamped "CS" from a CW camp--the finder at the site says that it's a "watch fob" but it obviously isn't...and it's the same dimensions as the plain oval one I found (pictured above). I'm not suggesting that these are war related, but I'm just wondering what the heck they are...



http://www.midtenrelics.com/buttons.htm (See #2, second photo...)


Regards,


Buckleboy

 

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[BuckleBoy]

I believe what was pictured in the first post of this longggg thread is, I believe, an escutcheon plate. It is indeed part of a pistol or musket rifle. They come in brass and sometimes were individualized by the person that carried it. I have also found two on a rev war to 1813 site. One of which has engraved wheat leaves along top and bottom and serations around holes. Go to yahoo search and type in "escutcheon plate" and the descriptions are paired with the rifle or pistol and show plainly what it is. I can't speak for the other pics (there are many, but the one that started this is an escuteon plate. Hope this helps. I have included my pics here as well with some of the relics found on the site.

Can you clarify this... So you are saying that the oval ones are escutcheon plates but the oblong ones are not?


Best Wishes,


Buckles

 

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[Woodland Detectors]

Thanks Chris for verifying this! Maybe now we can put a big fat green check mark on this one...mike

 

[BuckleBoy]

4-H and others,


It seems that we've already been through these possibilities on this thread. The idea of a name plate is quite funny to be honest--since I have only seen one out of Many examples that had anything on it. If these were name plates, more would be marked.


Mr. Magoo--I went to Yahoo search and couldn't find anything that looked like these pieces. Everything that came up had a place for a keyhole when I searched. Can you provide a link to the site that shows these as pistol or weapon parts? I went back and looked after I posted the previous reply to you--and I had started this thread with a photo of both an oval and an oblong one of these. Is this what you think both of these are?


Thank you all for working on this. I hope we can all put our heads together and get it solved.


Best Wishes,



Buckles

 

[lastleg]

Drat, foiled again.

 

[RPG]

I still say some of these were escheon plates for guns as I stated in my first reply to this thread. There are several different styles that were used for something else. We just need to sort out those other uses. I think the ones posted with the staple looking thing are going to get this solved. Just got to find one in use.
Randy

 

[BuckleBoy]

I still say some of these were escheon plates for guns as I stated in my first reply to this thread. There are several different styles that were used for something else. We just need to sort out those other uses. I think the ones posted with the staple looking thing are going to get this solved. Just got to find one in use.
Randy

You're absolutely right. We Will get this solved.

I think our minds like to group things by shape, size, and what we've seen posted online, or in reference books, or what we've dug in the past. And when several of those items come along with slightly different shapes, but the same general features, we group them together. And it well may be that all the educated guesses on this thread will prove correct--that one style may be horse tack, and the other style weapon-related... But I just hope that someone is able to turn up something that shows one fastened to something. It seems so counter-intuitive to me that so many of these things are being dug and there is no evidence in advertising, reference books, the internet, or anywhere else that shows these darned things attached to something.


Best Wishes,



Buckles

 

[BomberJohn]

The only modern piece I've seen that is similar is the bottom of Estwing hammers and hatchets. These are steel though. And brass wouldn't be good for this.

 

[Woodland Detectors]

OK, BB. MR. Magoo Has successfuly found the book I posted in the thread earlier that should give us accurate description. Mr. Magoo is a friend of the author who has sent us 2 copies of the book which should arrive from New York by early next week. Hopefully, we should be able to successfully ID these Seemingly Unidentified abundant items. whew! I hope so! lol

 

[BuckleBoy]

The only modern piece I've seen that is similar is the bottom of Estwing hammers and hatchets. These are steel though. And brass wouldn't be good for this.

Too bad that hatchet isn't 200 years old with a brass piece on it.  Wow, that's a great guess.  Nice work with rustling that photo up. 

 

[Hill Billy]

Here's the latest one that I found. I'm thinking it's a saddle related item that was used for decoration.Wish someone could find a pic of one of these so we could know for sure.

HB

 

[Woodland Detectors]

MR. Magoos brother found this ID in an old book we are waiting for by mail. He sais they are firearm related.

 

[BuckleBoy]

MR. Magoos brother found this ID in an old book we are waiting for by mail. He sais they are firearm related.

4-H, you will both be a ROCK STARS if you two can solve this thing. Keep me posted when you receive the book.


This makes me REALLY excited.

 

[RELICDUDE07]

They are simple brass tags ------companys/store owners would buy them in bulk for all sorts of uses and put any designs they wanted on them . Some were i .d. tags others used for different things....

 

[BuckleBoy]

They are simple brass tags ------companys/store owners would buy them in bulk for all sorts of uses and put any designs they wanted on them . Some were i .d. tags others used for different things....

I appreciate the reply relicdude!   


I really don't think these are ID discs, as I've said before in my replies to this thread.  For these to be ID tags, we should have seen at least one dug example posted that had something on it, like a name or initials--something.  But instead they are all blank--which leads me to believe that they are ornamental rather than information-bearing.


In summary, here's what we've found out so far:


1.  These have been found in late 1700s or early 1800s sites pretty much exclusively. 

2.  They seem to be pretty much a standard width between the holes.

3.  They saw widespread use in the East and Central U.S., as well as extensive use overseas too.

4.  There may be photos of two different pieces in the post here, with two different functions:  An oval version, and an oblong version.



And I would say that they must have been attached to something that


1.  most folks would've had--a common item, since they appear so frequently in dug finds both here and in Europe.


2.  was made of a material that didn't survive, like leather or wood...or either something that wasn't really sturdy or meant to survive, or something which received harder use--causing the metal screws/rivets/attachments to pull out(In terms of the material not surviving, it is a similar case to the scythe handle ferrule that we all kept finding and it finally got ID'ed by JohnDeereDigger)



And some members have found a two-pronged piece still attached to them, which is evidently part of the apparatus.



Best Wishes,



Buckles

 

[RELICDUDE07]

It was up to what the companys business is ,as to what they would use them for.Some companys may have made saddles,others companys may have put them on trunks.They are so common they were bought in bulk and then made to fit the store owners needs...Thats my guess because i find them also

 

[BuckleBoy]

It was up to what the companys business is ,as to what they would use them for.Some companys may have made saddles,others companys may have put them on trunks.They are so common they were bought in bulk and then made to fit the store owners needs...Thats my guess because i find them also

I think the most telling photo so far is in reply #87 and the replies before it.  Leddel posted a photo with an extra piece, and others have found this other piece on the same sites as one of our whatzits as well.  Not something you would see on a gun piece, trunk, or ID tag:

 

[RELICDUDE07]

That one looks like a furniture company piece,they may have had a order for a 1000 back in the old days to use them on their furniture...

 

[CRUSADER]

It was up to what the companys business is ,as to what they would use them for.Some companys may have made saddles,others companys may have put them on trunks.They are so common they were bought in bulk and then made to fit the store owners needs...Thats my guess because i find them also

I think the most telling photo so far is in reply #87 and the replies before it. Leddel posted a photo with an extra piece, and others have found this other piece on the same sites as one of our whatzits as well. Not something you would see on a gun piece, trunk, or ID tag:

I was looking for a barrel tap picture in a few of my books yesterday but couldn't find it. However, I did see that item with with the screws (red boxed item in picture), and they are mini furniture drawer handles, but were not illustrated with the brass piece.

 

[RELICDUDE07]

cool crusader ,on the barrel taps i think some could be french made and some british and spanish...Because when we find them some look alot different then others.I only have 1 or 2 but some of my friends have many styles....This company went with the round brass tags in the picture i posted above to fit their needs....

 

[Woodland Detectors]

Wow, This is getting intertesting. Rellicdudes guess makes the most sense to me. That would explain why we find so many. I need the proof! lol