AMRA GETTING IT DON, WALKING THE WALK AND TALKING THE TALK.

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Oakview2

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Feb 4, 2012
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American Mining Rights Association

Important announcement:
Several weeks ago we mentioned we were working on something which would make national news. Here it is:
We have been working closely with Sheriff Doug Binnewies of Mariposa County on the radical over-reach and complete disregard to the 4th Amendment by the USFS Law Enforcement Officers (LEO's) of the Stanislaus National Forest (SNF). We have provided Sheriff Binnewies with every document, statement and kept him informed of our investigation into these LEO's.
Yesterday, Sheriff Binnewies WITHDREW and REMOVED the USFS law enforcement capacity of the Stanislaus NF in Mariposa County. We expect Sheriff Mele of Tuolumne County to follow suit as well.
As most of you know, we had more than a dozen incidents AMRA investigated and obtained statements on of the USFS LEO's just stopping random vehicles along public roads, demanding the operators get out, produce ID, put their hands on the hoods and then searched their vehicles without any probable cause or reason in direct violation of our 4th Amendment and their own code of conduct. This is in additional to the egregious, and simply stunning incident where the Capt. of the LEO's pulled and pointed a Taser at the face of an AMRA member running a sluice box on a tiny creek on one of our validly held Federal Mining Claims. The LEO illegally demanded our member produce ID and boomed she needed to know "who is in MY forest". We pushed this investigation all the way up to the Commander of the LEO's only to find Commander Wears ignored the public's concerns, her LEO's blatant violations of our Constitution and blatant violations of their own code of conduct.
Obviously, the USFS Commander had hoped that AMRA would simply walk away and forget these people were radically violated by their out of control LEO's. AMRA doesn't give up and we are extremely proud to state that Sheriff Doug Binnewies recognized the extreme actions by these USFS officers and acted.
When government agencies completely go rogue, feel utterly protected and operate outside the boundaries of the rules which are supposed to protect the citizens who pay their wages with our tax money, actions like Sheriff Binnewies are one of the last recourse's of stopping out of control behavior.
Join us in thanking Sheriff Binnewies for stepping up and protecting the people who visit Mariposa County.
We are not going away, and trust us...........we have much, much more planned for these LEO's and the Commander who protected these rogue agents.
Please make a donation to, or join AMRA today, what we have planned will be costly, but necessary.
americanminingrights.com
 

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Love this debate. Seeing different points of view and ideas. Like they say "Freedom is NOT free". We will always be battling those trying to take it away. They have been since this country started. 6 years of a dredging ban is discouraging and the the court system is a snails pace. The second amendment is the only thing keeping us from living under tyranny. Whether you support AMRA or another mining org. is your choice. We are fighting many different eco. orgs. as well. It is important to keep the fight against those who want to control you. Without freedom we are nothing.
 

Most recent FB post from AMRA:

"


Mark Stopher, Senior Policy Advisor
California Department of Fish and Wildlife
601 Locust Street
Redding, CA 96001
Dear Mr. Stopher, May 11, 2015


I am writing this letter to you to formally request (again) a suction dredge permit for California. I own several mining claims here in California and have been denied the ability to provide for my family by mining my claims in the only effective method which has been proven time and again to be environmentally friendly and “not deleterious” to the CA fisheries. This does not even take into consideration that over 80% of the gold claims in CA have no anadramous fish.

As you are aware, Judge Ochoa ruled and signed an order calling your moratorium on suction dredging a “scheme” and stated it is “unenforceable”.

Sierra Fund has been allowed to use an inefficient cutter dredge under the guise of mercury removal and as you are also undoubtedly aware, a cutter dredge is only 84% effective at mercury removal where a modern suction dredge is 98% to 99% effective. Sierra Fund has received millions in tax payer funds to operate their dredge on Lake Combie and have received a permit to operate this destructive piece of equipment.

You claim the CA DFG is woefully underfunded and yet Sierra Fund is paid tax money to dredge, but you deny the revenue CA DFG could generate by ending this ridiculous “scheme” to ban suction dredging in CA. Literally hundreds of millions of dollars have been lost to the CA economy from your “unlawful” “scheme” to create a defacto ban causing businesses to close, families to be hurt and entire rural communities to be devastated.
Sir, I am not interested in your form letter response, but one typed by you, not a secretary or an aide, you sir. I would like you to answer a few simple questions, and being that you are a public servant, paid for with my tax money and that you work for a public management agency, kindly answer these few questions.

1) Why is an ineffective cutter dredge allowed to operate while suction dredges which generate revenue to the state not allowed to operate?
2) Judge Ochoa’s order clearly states your moratorium is unlawful, when will you acknowledge his order?
3) When will you issue my suction dredge permit so I can provide for my family?
4) Please state what process I need to go through to obtain my suction dredge permit for California.

Sincerely,
Mr. Shannon Poe"
 

And here is another problem--scientists lie. Today, for some (perhaps many), ideology is more important than truth. These scientists therefore spin their results to support their ideology. You have seen this in the dredging issue. They write papers with spin in peer-reviewed journals (some of which are ideology-driven) to support their position. I had an argument this week with another professor over such an article in an area we were teaching the cadets here at the Air Force Academy (and the article was on the reading list). Since the writer doing the spinning had 14 peer-reviewed papers, my fellow professor (who is not of the same ideology as the writer) said we should accept the article. I pointed out that the writer essentially lied, so I would not accept anything from that writer since he had no integrity but was ideology driven.

Today you can no longer just look at the research (on any topic) and try to get to the truth of the issue--you have to consider the ideology of the writer and the journal. If they are spinners of truth, then they are not to be trusted. However, it is a lot of work to dig through all the manure to find such stuff out. This means, as Mad Machinist points out, you need full-time folks, like the radical environmentalists have and they have helped to shut down dredging. The average person has a hard time knowing who to believe since there are scientific papers backing both sides of any question.

So when some miners with scientific backgrounds start pointing out how the other side has spun things (i.e., lied), others get upset--often depending on whether they agree or disagree, not on the merits put forth. Again, ideology vs. truth. This is a slippery slope and gets folks riled up. And since the ideology spin from the radical environmentalists is essentially political,…ah, there's the rub. It is very hard to argue against much the radical environmentalists are doing without politics getting into it, because for them it is political from the get-go.
 

And here is another problem--scientists lie. Today, for some (perhaps many), ideology is more important than truth. These scientists therefore spin their results to support their ideology. You have seen this in the dredging issue. They write papers with spin in peer-reviewed journals (some of which are ideology-driven) to support their position. I had an argument this week with another professor over such an article in an area we were teaching the cadets here at the Air Force Academy (and the article was on the reading list). Since the writer doing the spinning had 14 peer-reviewed papers, my fellow professor (who is not of the same ideology as the writer) said we should accept the article. I pointed out that the writer essentially lied, so I would not accept anything from that writer since he had no integrity but was ideology driven.
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Bribes pay for alot of lies also.
 

GoldpannerDave said:
And here is another problem--scientists lie. Today, for some (perhaps many), ideology is more important than truth. These scientists therefore spin their results to support their ideology. You have seen this in the dredging issue. They write papers with spin in peer-reviewed journals (some of which are ideology-driven) to support their position. I had an argument this week with another professor over such an article in an area we were teaching the cadets here at the Air Force Academy (and the article was on the reading list). Since the writer doing the spinning had 14 peer-reviewed papers, my fellow professor (who is not of the same ideology as the writer) said we should accept the article. I pointed out that the writer essentially lied, so I would not accept anything from that writer since he had no integrity but was ideology driven.
Click to expand...


Hal spoke on this issue , the "Peer Review Process" , in yesterdays Behind The Woodshed show
Behind The Woodshed | Real Liberty Media
 

Keep all politics not directly related to treasure hunting out of all forums except our political forum.
 

fowledup said:
Even if it turns out to be symbolic in nature, it will serve to put the individuals who are abusing their authority and overstating their importance on notice. It will force someone higher in the food chain, other than the person who is in charge of them now to address the situation. And like the domino effect or a journey of a thousand miles it all starts with the first step. One guy stands up and shows he has a pair and just maybe the others that have been itching to do the same but didn't want to go first will follow suit.

Nothing a government employee hates more than unwanted negative attention or corrective diciplinary action!
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Mayby its time for a Clive Bundy moment! The USFS needs to be reminded of the old "multiple use" doctrine of the Forest Circus!

And, "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down those blocked public roads!"

 

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Bedrock bubba, do you not see my post above yours?
 

Treasure_Hunter said:
Bedrock bubba, do you not see my post above yours?
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THUnter...I promise I'm not questioning the rules or authority....I just want to know exactly what is political about that statement???? Are we not allowed to even mention gov. agencies? was it because of the Gorbachev comment? I know there is a political section but, most prospecting members aren't charter. Are we not allowed to discuss policy? reg's and/or opinions about them because they are handed down via Gov. agencies which are run by politicians therefore inherently political?
I really am curious.The prospecting forum is the main conduit where the fellas share info in these Bill's Ban's potential ban's etc.
Just want a clear definition of political comments so we can all try to avoid saying the wrong thing and avoid locked threads...time outs and deleted posts.
Thank you for your work as a Mod!!:thumbsup:
 

Answered in pm..
 

At some point the viewer needs to bear some responsibility for their travels within the forum. It's like the old adage- "if you don't like the program change the channel". We are all smart enough to know and figure out by the title or within the first one maybe two posts at the most what the direction of the post will be. For example; I could care less about the tv show Ice Cold Gold, so when I see a post that I know will be about the show, I don't click on it, no judgement or ill will, it simply doesn't interest me. Like it or not politics and legal issues are a major part of Gold Mining and Prospecting, they are relevant and important topics for discussion. If your sick of the politics don't get mad or turned off just don't click on the post and move on, this great site has thousands of other related topics and posts to choose from.
 

fowledup said:
At some point the viewer needs to bear some responsibility for their travels within the forum. It's like the old adage- "if you don't like the program change the channel". We are all smart enough to know and figure out by the title or within the first one maybe two posts at the most what the direction of the post will be. For example; I could care less about the tv show Ice Cold Gold, so when I see a post that I know will be about the show, I don't click on it, no judgement or ill will, it simply doesn't interest me. Like it or not politics and legal issues are a major part of Gold Mining and Prospecting, they are relevant and important topics for discussion. If your sick of the politics don't get mad or turned off just don't click on the post and move on, this great site has thousands of other related topics and posts to choose from.
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Politics not directly related to treasure topic violate our rules. Members can discuss laws, regs, bills ect with no issue with TN rules, the problem arises when political statement post go beyond being directly related and are political challenges, bashing etc.

Posts attacking liberal or conservatives, liberal or conservative parties and derogatory abbreviations for political parties etc, political battle cries etc cross the line and can cause a post to be completely deleted as most mods will not edit out the violation.
 

I get that and agree, I was directing my comments more towards the membership. I would say however that we shouldn't be treating politics any,different then we do sports. Take football, when a player on one team drops the ball and screws up the game, we have no problem publicly saying his name and what team he plays for, and how bqd a play it was. That's accountability, not bashing. Like politics, when your getting paid at that level your expected to be beyond minor screw ups and are held to higher level of performance and expectations. As a whole were kinda backwards, as bad sports play doesnt have near the effect on our lives that bad politics does. Oh well I will refrain and conform as best I can, at least here I will, lol. Rant over
 

fowledup said:
I get that and agree, I was directing my comments more towards the membership. I would say however that we shouldn't be treating politics any,different then we do sports. Take football, when a player on one team drops the ball and screws up the game, we have no problem publicly saying his name and what team he plays for, and how bqd a play it was. That's accountability, not bashing. Like politics, when your getting paid at that level your expected to be beyond minor screw ups and are held to higher level of performance and expectations. As a whole were kinda backwards, as bad sports play doesnt have near the effect on our lives that bad politics does. Oh well I will refrain and conform as best I can, at least here I will, lol. Rant over
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I understand, mods are simply following admins directives, while we may agree 100% with a political post, if it violates rules we have to delete it....
 

fowledup said:
I get that and agree, I was directing my comments more towards the membership. I would say however that we shouldn't be treating politics any,different then we do sports. Take football, when a player on one team drops the ball and screws up the game, we have no problem publicly saying his name and what team he plays for, and how bqd a play it was. That's accountability, not bashing. Like politics, when your getting paid at that level your expected to be beyond minor screw ups and are held to higher level of performance and expectations. As a whole were kinda backwards, as bad sports play doesnt have near the effect on our lives that bad politics does. Oh well I will refrain and conform as best I can, at least here I will, lol. Rant over
Click to expand...

The difference is:
- in sports everyone can agree the ball was dropped.
- In politics one person's dropped ball is another's touchdown!

So I strongly agree with the rules. Strongly!
 

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