AMRA GETTING IT DON, WALKING THE WALK AND TALKING THE TALK.

[Oakview2]

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American Mining Rights Association

Important announcement:
Several weeks ago we mentioned we were working on something which would make national news. Here it is:
We have been working closely with Sheriff Doug Binnewies of Mariposa County on the radical over-reach and complete disregard to the 4th Amendment by the USFS Law Enforcement Officers (LEO's) of the Stanislaus National Forest (SNF). We have provided Sheriff Binnewies with every document, statement and kept him informed of our investigation into these LEO's.
Yesterday, Sheriff Binnewies WITHDREW and REMOVED the USFS law enforcement capacity of the Stanislaus NF in Mariposa County. We expect Sheriff Mele of Tuolumne County to follow suit as well.
As most of you know, we had more than a dozen incidents AMRA investigated and obtained statements on of the USFS LEO's just stopping random vehicles along public roads, demanding the operators get out, produce ID, put their hands on the hoods and then searched their vehicles without any probable cause or reason in direct violation of our 4th Amendment and their own code of conduct. This is in additional to the egregious, and simply stunning incident where the Capt. of the LEO's pulled and pointed a Taser at the face of an AMRA member running a sluice box on a tiny creek on one of our validly held Federal Mining Claims. The LEO illegally demanded our member produce ID and boomed she needed to know "who is in MY forest". We pushed this investigation all the way up to the Commander of the LEO's only to find Commander Wears ignored the public's concerns, her LEO's blatant violations of our Constitution and blatant violations of their own code of conduct.
Obviously, the USFS Commander had hoped that AMRA would simply walk away and forget these people were radically violated by their out of control LEO's. AMRA doesn't give up and we are extremely proud to state that Sheriff Doug Binnewies recognized the extreme actions by these USFS officers and acted.
When government agencies completely go rogue, feel utterly protected and operate outside the boundaries of the rules which are supposed to protect the citizens who pay their wages with our tax money, actions like Sheriff Binnewies are one of the last recourse's of stopping out of control behavior.
Join us in thanking Sheriff Binnewies for stepping up and protecting the people who visit Mariposa County.
We are not going away, and trust us...........we have much, much more planned for these LEO's and the Commander who protected these rogue agents.
Please make a donation to, or join AMRA today, what we have planned will be costly, but necessary.
americanminingrights.com

 

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[Mad Machinist]

Going to see a lot more of this as time goes on. People are growing tired of the crap and are putting pressure where they can.

 

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[MadMarshall]

Going to see a lot more of this as time goes on. People are growing tired of the crap and are putting pressure where they can.

Actually I seen this crap in the past and Ill see it in the future. Didn't change then.. Seems to gotten worse..Hasn't changed now... But I forget how we live in a world where kids are given trophies for last place and people are taught that " Its the thought that counts." Where people are praised for doin there "BASIC JOB".. For me it would be nice to have a SHERRIFF that actually investigated the matter and took action and maybe even actually held someone accountable. to me by the article it sounds as if AMRA made the SHERRIFF aware and he did nothing.. So AMRA investigated compiled evidence and whatevers clever and forced the Sherriffs hand.. Truthfully who knows, who cares, as nothing has happened..or will happen.. Sherriff is only elected for 4 years.. So maybe the USFS will change it's practices in the area maybe not.. Maybe they just ride out the Sherriff and wait for someone more sympathetic to their cause.. But any like I said makes no difference... Not now. not in the long run..
MadMachinist you right about people getting tired of this crap Me too but I am also getting tired of all these stupid self interest groups on both sides milking every last cent from the public in THE INTREST OF PROTECTING THIER RIGHTS OR BELIEFS. I think it a vicious circle and as much of the problem as the problems themselves. But I suppose it is the way the world works.

 

[Oakview2]

If you stay bent over, don't be suprised what you get.

 

[timberjack]

Well mad,,, what have you done in the fight for our rights? I am not criticizing you by any means and enjoy following your work. Not getting involved is easy. See, the whole deal is the people that want to keep us off our land are very involved, organized and well funded. Many many radical enviromentalists that want to make a diffrance have dedicated their lives to the cause and work for the blm and usfs. They are organized thru social media, they have well funded lawyers on staff and they know how to work the media.
Turning this around has to become a mindset for us as it is for them,,,,,and the old,,,,"what can you really do" attitude is what they are banking on....imho

 

[MadMarshall]

LOL the extent of Today's Involvemnet is done in dollars and cents.. Me personally I fight for my rights in my actions I do not weigh them in Donations nor in the HIPCORACY of POLITICS... for me my rights are not a job for people to earn a living off of.. I excersise my rights every feaking day.. My rights as a Citizen and my rights as a Prospector. No lack of people fighting to take rights away and or trying to restore them... No matter what good or bad better or for worse.. Like I said to many people who make their living on peoples RIGHTs whether they be advocating or against.. I am just of the mind despite their intentions that it is a corrupt system that only serves the individuals who make their living on such causes...

Anyway makes no difference to me.. I can not afford change and even if I could afford to pay for change I would not sell out my values to do so.. My rights are not bought or sold... Nor should anyone elses be. I put these clubs and groups whether they be environmental or RECREATIONAL GOLD PROSPECTORS or the freaking CLINTON foundation all in the same CATORGORY MODERN DAY BEGGERS.... people who profit and make their living at the exspense of others...
anyway to each their own.. Anyway I guess I just don't see anything really done that's all.. Just AMRA stating that they need more donations.. Pretty much at the end of every thing they print... Anyway I guess we will let time tell .. But truthfully all I see is THE REAL SMALL SCALE MINING COMMUNITY BENDING OVER.. Anyway I don't call myself a small scale prospector out of Conveince.. I am what I am.. Now the men who represent these RECREATIONAL PROSPECTORS for them it is a term they use out of Convience. Anyway Support who you want how you want. Me I support the people actually taking the hit The small scale mining community. Just wait boys and girls .... these people you are advocating are goin to be the death of actual small scale miners.. Re recreational mining will prevail and no longer will it be an option for a man to be able to earn a living small scale prospectors. These people don't make a living off of exploiting MINERALS.. They make their living by exploiting people.. And they now are making it by bein advocates..

I suppose if AMRA was actually talking the talk and walking the walk they would be earning a living getting GOLD.. But lol they never walked the walk and they just TALK... Truth is dredging has hit the Clubs very hard as Dredging was the preferred and easiest way to get gold... Anyway I know a few REAL small scale Prospectors who were devastated by no dredgeing but you know what ? many other ways a REAL SMALL SCALE MINER to make a living other then dredging and they are doin so.. I am doin it.. The real hit was to the RECREATIONAL COMMUNITY.

 

[Mad Machinist]

Well mad,,, what have you done in the fight for our rights?

Not enough bandwidth here for me to get into detail. So I'll paraphrase a little.

I have had involvement in The Tahoe and Santa Fe NF lawsuits. And it looks like I will be spearheading the Apache-Sitgreaves NF lawsuit.

I feed environmental reviews to many different groups so they can eliminate those aspects. Believe me, once those are gone things get a little different.

Thankfully, I am down to around a dozen meetings a month. At one point, I attended more meetings than a CEO of a Fortune 500 company.

The whole point behind me spending over $70K so far on my education was to fight back on the same level that the eco freaks are. And more often than not right now, we are winning. The eco freaks look really funny when they go in claiming that mining and OHV use MIGHT be causing extinction of species when evidence is laid on the table on WHAT is causing extinction of species. And in most cases, it was the Gams and Fish offices in the State that brought the invasive species in.

Because of my education, I have access to the same information that the eco freaks do. And there is just as much information that opposes their cause as supports it.

And today, I have to review an environmental assessment for another organization and find evidence to support my position. And I forgot to mention, I DO NOT get paid to do this.

 

[Oakview2]

Shannon Poe the president and founder of AMRA, has made his living from being a miner the last ten years. He spent 40,000 dollars of his own money to start the original dredge case. He spent out of pocket to form AMRA to protect miners rights, PERIOD. If you are going to try and talk smack about people that are making a difference, at least get your FACTS straight. I am not a AMRA member but have mined and area where he has claims. That is where I met him, was before AMRA was ever formed. AMRA does sell access to their claims, and in turn they have used that money to defend individuals miners, keep FS from running over individual claimholders, and has donated countless thousands of dollars to Brandon Rhinehart and to PLP, to help keep our right to mine. Victor the principals of AMRA are professional miners, but apparently they are a little better at it than you and I....

 

[MadMarshall]

Has nothing to do with talking crap just the way I see it.. Anyway I suppose we all have different views on what warrents making a difference.. Anyway to be honest I have yet to see any difference they have made. Why start a new organization? why not support one of the many who was already advocating small scale mining rights? To many groups and clubs. Everyone with a different interpretation on how the constitution should be viewed. Laws the same way.. Anyway me I not look at the actions or nor do I give a rats fart on how much money is spent.. Me I am only interested in actual results and change.. For me the results speak volumes... Ain't dredging still Illegal.. The USFS and BLM and the SHERRIFF and every other authority lacks any kind of credibility.. Like I said INTENTIONS don't mean squat. it the results.. But that's not exactly true now is it? .. Anyway like I said makes no difference to me nothing they do will effect me..
Riddle this me BATMAN
why do we need so many groups don't they represent the same things? Why didn't Shannon put all those resources in one these other pro mining groups? or maybe PLP o\What makes his club better then the rest or different.. All these groups all working for the same thing supposbly. Why create another club or group? Me I think there is money to be made in creating an advocate group.. EXSPEACIALLY when one makes a NON PROFIT ORG.. Anyway I am sure AMRA will not be last club born out of all this. Anyway as far as I am concerned the only interests these groups have are SELF SERVING.. United we stand Divided we fall... To many clubs to many groups all saying they are fighting for the same thing.. Yet actual change seems to elude them... Anyway all these groups divide and take away from the actual cause.. I sincerely doubt that the majority of these groups have the PEOPLES interests in mind.. Anyway praise and pay who you like.. Like I said I sincerely doubt they will be attributed to any real change other then amount that is jingling in their pockets.. Anyway we can go in circles about this crap all day.. And just like the clubs nothing aint ever to come of it.... I will not post in this thread again.. We all have to protect and restore our rights as we see fit.

 

[Oakview2]

Has nothing to do with talking crap just the way I see it..If you are making accusations and then basing your opinions on those mis truths then you are talking crap Anyway I suppose we all have different views on what warrents making a difference.. Anyway to be honest I have yet to see any difference they have made.How could you, you are not in the fight, and sit on the sideline and belittle the strides being made on our behalf Why start a new organization? why not support one of the many who was already advocating small scale mining rights? To many groups and clubs.These are not groups or clubs, these are non profits fighting a myriad of green facist groups, well organzied and well funded. Everyone with a different interpretation on how the constitution should be viewed. Laws the same way.. Anyway me I not look at the actions or nor do I give a rats fart on how much money is spent.. Me I am only interested in actual results and change.. For me the results speak volumes... Ain't dredging still Illegal.. The USFS and BLM and the SHERRIFF and every other authority lacks any kind of credibility.. Like I said INTENTIONS don't mean squat. it the results.. But that's not exactly true now is it? .. Anyway like I said makes no difference to me nothing they do will effect me..
Riddle this me BATMAN. Results, we have a CA judge that has ruled that the state has prempted federal law, we have a case before the state supreme court, we have stopped rouge FS LEO from hastling miners, fishermen and hunters. What have you done, except hide your high standards?? NOTHING
why do we need so many groups don't they represent the same things? Why didn't Shannon put all those resources in one these other pro mining groups? or maybe PLP o\What makes his club better then the rest or different.. All these groups all working for the same thing supposbly. Why create another club or group? Me I think there is money to be made in creating an advocate group.. EXSPEACIALLY when one makes a NON PROFIT ORG.. Make money from a non profit? You might want to research exactly what a 501 3c is and does. Anyway I am sure AMRA will not be last club born out of all this. Anyway as far as I am concerned the only interests these groups have are SELF SERVING.. United we stand Divided we fall... To many clubs to many groups all saying they are fighting for the same thing.. Yet actual change seems to elude them... Anyway all these groups divide and take away from the actual cause.. I sincerely doubt that the majority of these groups have the PEOPLES interests in mind.. Anyway praise and pay who you like.. Like I said I sincerely doubt they will be attributed to any real change other then amount that is jingling in their pockets.. Anyway we can go in circles about this crap all day.. And just like the clubs nothing aint ever to come of it.... I will not post in this thread again.. We all have to protect and restore our rights as we see fit. Like the song says, if you don't stand for nothing, you will fall for anything. I am done argueing this pointless rant, you have established exactly who you are and what you stand for.

 

[Mad Machinist]

Has nothing to do with talking crap just the way I see it.. Anyway I suppose we all have different views on what warrents making a difference.. Anyway to be honest I have yet to see any difference they have made. Why start a new organization? why not support one of the many who was already advocating small scale mining rights? To many groups and clubs. Everyone with a different interpretation on how the constitution should be viewed. Laws the same way.. Anyway me I not look at the actions or nor do I give a rats fart on how much money is spent.. Me I am only interested in actual results and change.. For me the results speak volumes... Ain't dredging still Illegal.. The USFS and BLM and the SHERRIFF and every other authority lacks any kind of credibility.. Like I said INTENTIONS don't mean squat. it the results.. But that's not exactly true now is it? .. Anyway like I said makes no difference to me nothing they do will effect me..
Riddle this me BATMAN
why do we need so many groups don't they represent the same things? Why didn't Shannon put all those resources in one these other pro mining groups? or maybe PLP o\What makes his club better then the rest or different.. All these groups all working for the same thing supposbly. Why create another club or group? Me I think there is money to be made in creating an advocate group.. EXSPEACIALLY when one makes a NON PROFIT ORG.. Anyway I am sure AMRA will not be last club born out of all this. Anyway as far as I am concerned the only interests these groups have are SELF SERVING.. United we stand Divided we fall... To many clubs to many groups all saying they are fighting for the same thing.. Yet actual change seems to elude them... Anyway all these groups divide and take away from the actual cause.. I sincerely doubt that the majority of these groups have the PEOPLES interests in mind.. Anyway praise and pay who you like.. Like I said I sincerely doubt they will be attributed to any real change other then amount that is jingling in their pockets.. Anyway we can go in circles about this crap all day.. And just like the clubs nothing aint ever to come of it.... I will not post in this thread again.. We all have to protect and restore our rights as we see fit.

Yes many more groups will be created and more will fail. The reason behind the creation of new groups is for the very reason you state. When they become "self serving" they tend to die off. This is currently happening to the Blue Ribbon Coalition in the OHV world. They refused to listen to those they supposedly represented and now they are paying for it. They wanted to "talk" things out with the people in the Tahoe NF. Well after the OHV people got together and filed the lawsuit, BRC FINALLY signed on to it.

This is pretty much how things are going to play out in the mining world. Those that listen to the miners will survive, those that don't will fall by the wayside. And right now, nothing will get done talking. So if a group is not willing to bring lawsuits, they will fall by the wayside.

As has been seen with the dredging lawsuit, they won't give up until the yare basically pounded into the ground or driven back under the rocks they crawled out from under. No one group will be able to do this. It will take many. So when one group runs out of money, the next one steps up. Just like the eco freaks did.

 

[Oakview2]

Machinst, a sincere thanks for the help you are providing. We all do what and when we can to help preserve our god given rights.

 

[MadMarshall]

Yes many more groups will be created and more will fail. The reason behind the creation of new groups is for the very reason you state. When they become "self serving" they tend to die off. This is currently happening to the Blue Ribbon Coalition in the OHV world. They refused to listen to those they supposedly represented and now they are paying for it. They wanted to "talk" things out with the people in the Tahoe NF. Well after the OHV people got together and filed the lawsuit, BRC FINALLY signed on to it.

This is pretty much how things are going to play out in the mining world. Those that listen to the miners will survive, those that don't will fall by the wayside. And right now, nothing will get done talking. So if a group is not willing to bring lawsuits, they will fall by the wayside.

As has been seen with the dredging lawsuit, they won't give up until the yare basically pounded into the ground or driven back under the rocks they crawled out from under. No one group will be able to do this. It will take many. So when one group runs out of money, the next one steps up. Just like the eco freaks did.

Madmachinst

I believe it is different with mining.. I am of the belief they are misusing mining rights... The fact that these clubs and groups can stake claims.. Changes the game.. Makes no difference if they are staking the claim to work for themselves or to whore out to the general public for donations or memberships .. Me I was always under the impression that Mining claims were meant for people who wanted to work them? But anyway the fact that these clubs groups or whoever whatever their movites they now are using the claim as foothold so to speak.. I thought the sake of mining claims was for profit? so how can we have a mining association who hold claims who is non profit having mining claims which are soley intended for people to exploit for a profit? Anyway I am no legal beagal and I most certiantly do not know it all but I think in regards to mining and unlike the example you stated above when these groups and clubs in the mining world start falling I think they will take everyone down with them....

Maybe this be my last post..maybe not it seems I am hella bored today..

 

[Asmbandits]

Man, is it just me or is every thread here lately turning into a ridiculous shouting match that doesn't need to be? A lot of argument I've noticed just looks bad, not sure why a select few need to beat there chests and shove there opinion down the throats of others but I personally don't appreciate it, I'm here to talk gold but there doesn't seem to be much of that here these days..

 

[gold tramp]

Man, is it just me or is every thread here lately turning into a ridiculous shouting match that doesn't need to be? A lot of argument I've noticed just looks bad, not sure why a select few need to beat there chests and shove there opinion down the throats of others but I personally don't appreciate it, I'm here to talk gold but there doesn't seem to be much of that here these days..

that is why i left here just to much non mining stuff going on, life is to short to waste go mining!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Mad Machinist]

Madmachinst

I believe it is different with mining.. I am of the belief they are misusing mining rights... The fact that these clubs and groups can stake claims.. Changes the game.. Makes no difference if they are staking the claim to work for themselves or to whore out to the general public for donations or memberships .. Me I was always under the impression that Mining claims were meant for people who wanted to work them? But anyway the fact that these clubs groups or whoever whatever their movites they now are using the claim as foothold so to speak.. I thought the sake of mining claims was for profit? so how can we have a mining association who hold claims who is non profit having mining claims which are soley intended for people to exploit for a profit? Anyway I am no legal beagal and I most certiantly do not know it all but I think in regards to mining and unlike the example you stated above when these groups and clubs in the mining world start falling I think they will take everyone down with them....

Maybe this be my last post..maybe not it seems I am hella bored today..

ANYBODY can stake a claim. Whether they be the individual, a non profit, for profit, or a corporation.

I am all for these groups staking and/or buying claims. This way people can be properly educated in mining and be able to do so both safely and soundly.

If we start dictating who can and cannot stakes claims based on profit or non-profit status, we continue down a slippery slope to a point where only those with stupid amounts of money can do so thus totally locking out the little guy. And make no mistake, there are a lot of large companies who would like nothing better than to eliminate any competition they can. Think about that last sentence for a little bit and the implications of it, then follow the money behind the environmental groups. It is eye opening to say the least.

One thing to remember in this also, especially with the whole claim thing. Eventually those claims play out and people stop coming when they find no gold. So in order to "stay in business" these "nonprofits" have to be able to find and either buy or stake claims to "stay in business". So with that also comes the ability for us to find and stake claims.

Very few of us have the time to dedicate to fighting for our rights and even fewer get paid to do it. Look on the other side of the issue and you have dedicated people who make a living out of destroying everything that we love. So unless we have people who are dedicated to fighting for our rights, and getting paid, we lose, period.

People have families that need fed, a roof kept over their heads, and food kept in their stomachs. Pretty much all the time needed to find information, work with attorneys, fight the various .gov agencies, and move through the court system is done when most people would normally be at work. And working the off shifts while doing this can be punishing to say the least. So asking someone to go fight for your rights for free while you are at work making a paycheck is rather hypocritical.

I really wish it was different, but it is not. This is what we have and this is what we have to deal with. And until everybody understands that we will not get everything little thing we want and start working together putting attitudes aside, we all lose.

 

[timberjack]

Hey im not trying to offend anyone! And im not saying give anyone money (if i had the extra cash id join amra to suppourt them but i cant afford to) Im just saying writing letters, talking to rangers when a gate pops up that blocks you from a claim, talking to the public lots of littel things can be done and thats got to be our attitude,,it can be done...but we all have to work at it........and sorry for bothering people whos comments i like reading but if we all dont start doing our part you wont be able to talk about mining without starting the sentance "remember when..."..

 

[Mad Machinist]

that is why i left here just to much non mining stuff going on, life is to short to waste go mining!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hope you enjoy it while you can. By the way, how much do you have to put up for "reclamation fees"? Wanna guess what is coming down the pike?

Think you'll be able to survive with the "reclamation bonds" being needed since your livelihood depends on your small scale mining?

Think I'm joking? It is already in place in many areas of this country.

Oh wait, I forgot, this doesn't pertain to mining and gold prospecting.

 

[Asmbandits]

Hope you enjoy it while you can. By the way, how much do you have to put up for "reclamation fees"? Wanna guess what is coming down the pike?

Think you'll be able to survive with the "reclamation bonds" being needed since your livelihood depends on your small scale mining?

Think I'm joking? It is already in place in many areas of this country.

Oh wait, I forgot, this doesn't pertain to mining and gold prospecting.

The problem is that there are a few here that take every thread they get a hold of so far off in there own tangent that it keeps the others from posting as to not get drug down to there level like I am letting myself do now. We are all entitled to our opinions but some let there egos speak louder and it is evident and gets old. The little unnecessary jabs here and there, while once in a while are tolerable and a part of normal forum behavior, become old quick when they tend to try and put everyone and everything in there place and no posting of valid fact or research makes that ok imo.

Tramp has a point, anyone that has followed this guys work understands what im getting at. There are some that will try to tell you whats what, and some that let there actions speak for themselves.

Honestly, look at the first post in this thread, why anyone related to mining would have anything against its subject is beyond me I guess..

 

[Asmbandits]

that is why i left here just to much non mining stuff going on, life is to short to waste go mining!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TRAMP! Glad to see you on, hopefully I will have the pleasure to see more of your work here in the future! Yellow pans to you my friend.

 

[Mad Machinist]

Machinst, a sincere thanks for the help you are providing. We all do what and when we can to help preserve our god given rights.

Actually, brother, after talking to the wife, I am probably going to withdraw from helping people and start looking at this from a business standpoint. With what is coming down the pike, I'll benefit greatly through reduced competition for small deposits.

A lot of people better get used to the words "serious and substantial" and the consequences they carry. Better have your 5000-23 papers too, along with a lot of other stuff in place.

Thanks to Jim Sharpe for this sad picture of MSHAs questionable and abusive enforcement on small firms

MSHA Part 46 TrainingMine Safety Center

If you have a mining claim or operation, whether hand tools or heavy equipment, you are actively engaged in mining and thus subject to MSHA.

Good luck, some are going to need it.