Alternative Theory - Naval Stores - J.Steele

[sasquash]

I have just finished reading Joy's book. I would start by saying it is a very easy and informative read. Well worth the $12 for anyone interested in the Oak Island Mystery (It is only 120 page long only takes a couple of hours to read).

She gives some great back ground, insights and context of the era (also some cool photos).

Before I discuss her theory some other interesting things raised in her book in relation to previous discussions in other threads.

1. Rick Lagina needs to do some research. Dunfiled description of the finger drain finds seems a near exact math to what is shown in this old film clip(around 8-11 mins in )




View attachment 1407658View attachment 1407659View attachment 1407660View attachment 1407661View attachment 1407662

View attachment 1407674

They must of seen this clip because they use cuts of it when showing Dunfiled in there TV show. They must know there is pics of finger drains. He should not be lying to his audience or he should sack his researchers/editors.

2. Fred Nolans theory is the British buried the treasure and it comes from the sacking of Harvana in 1762

3. As for no pictures of the stone cross here is one given by Joy and an old map that shows the money pit (another thing the laginas said did not exist didn’t they even read her book?)

View attachment 1407663View attachment 1407664

Joys Theory

Her theory is that OI was used to make a variety of naval store products by a private company selling to the British navy. The labour used on the island was mostly slaves. The island had at least 3 Pine Tar Kilns. 1) The money pit 2) the cave in pit 3) Smith cove coffer dam

A tar kiln looked something like this


View attachment 1407665
The Kiln is buried under ground and drained into barrels. The drains are also under ground (This is needed to stop the Tar catching fire as it very flammable. Under ground it had no oxygen to catch fire. The idea of the pit can be shown on this image (the oak tree/pulley was used to help raise and lower stuff into the kiln).

View attachment 1407666

Her evidence is based around the shape, charcoal remnants, left over ground impression, location, need for the products, British documents that support this was being done in Nova Scotia (Very interesting background on the company that she is saying controlled the island).

Smiths Cove

She argues that the structure coffer dam was not a dam and that at this age this area was not under water. She offer this phot as collaboration of the rise in sea levels since then.

View attachment 1407667

The drains were draining the pine tar from the kiln and that is why they are buried under the sand/ rocks etc. All the U shaped structure etc was support for the Kiln

View attachment 1407668View attachment 1407669

She claims that this box sled is actually a tar funnel

View attachment 1407670View attachment 1407671

She points out that this is a reason that all the timber found in the drains etc is in such good condition as it was heavily soaked with pine tar a preserver of wood from the process. She quotes several “experts’ who are supportive of her theory


She also claims other evidence found may be that of making ship masts (she claims these were soaked in the swamp to season) etc as the Naval stores enterprise made many thins (This is interesting as it may fit with the recent article on softening coconut fibres as well — as Joys explanation for the coconut fibres is pretty poor in my opinion ).

View attachment 1407672

She claims the reports of fires and lights on the island were people seeing the tar kilns flame up and explode as they often did.

Flood tunnel

She gives a very good theory to explain the water at 100ft — soil liquefaction caused by volcanic action and vibration in damp clayey soil. Basically some soil turns liquids’ and flows out to sea leaving a natural tunnel in the remaining soil.

View attachment 1407673

Initial Problems with Theory in my view

1. Is there really evidence that the sea level rose by that much over 250 years?
2. Why by 1790s had everyone in the area forgotten that there was a significant enterprise making naval stores on OI that was there until the 1750’s
3. Why did people think the lights were strange if they new heaps of people were on the island making naval stores
4. Is soil liquefaction real
5. She does not really explain the coconut fibres
6. She claims the chapels vault was so deep because the volcanic action caused the shaft to collapse a significant depth into the cavity’s below (is this a viable explanation).

This is just a start I hope some others will now join in with some more detailed discussion of her theory/views

Yes this is the way to follow !

 

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[Al D]

I have just finished reading Joy's book. I would start by saying it is a very easy and informative read. Well worth the $12 for anyone interested in the Oak Island Mystery (It is only 120 page long only takes a couple of hours to read).

She gives some great back ground, insights and context of the era (also some cool photos).

Before I discuss her theory some other interesting things raised in her book in relation to previous discussions in other threads.

1. Rick Lagina needs to do some research. Dunfiled description of the finger drain finds seems a near exact math to what is shown in this old film clip(around 8-11 mins in )




View attachment 1407658View attachment 1407659View attachment 1407660View attachment 1407661View attachment 1407662

View attachment 1407674

They must of seen this clip because they use cuts of it when showing Dunfiled in there TV show. They must know there is pics of finger drains. He should not be lying to his audience or he should sack his researchers/editors.

2. Fred Nolans theory is the British buried the treasure and it comes from the sacking of Harvana in 1762

3. As for no pictures of the stone cross here is one given by Joy and an old map that shows the money pit (another thing the laginas said did not exist didn’t they even read her book?)

View attachment 1407663View attachment 1407664

Joys Theory

Her theory is that OI was used to make a variety of naval store products by a private company selling to the British navy. The labour used on the island was mostly slaves. The island had at least 3 Pine Tar Kilns. 1) The money pit 2) the cave in pit 3) Smith cove coffer dam

A tar kiln looked something like this


View attachment 1407665
The Kiln is buried under ground and drained into barrels. The drains are also under ground (This is needed to stop the Tar catching fire as it very flammable. Under ground it had no oxygen to catch fire. The idea of the pit can be shown on this image (the oak tree/pulley was used to help raise and lower stuff into the kiln).

View attachment 1407666

Her evidence is based around the shape, charcoal remnants, left over ground impression, location, need for the products, British documents that support this was being done in Nova Scotia (Very interesting background on the company that she is saying controlled the island).

Smiths Cove

She argues that the structure coffer dam was not a dam and that at this age this area was not under water. She offer this phot as collaboration of the rise in sea levels since then.

View attachment 1407667

The drains were draining the pine tar from the kiln and that is why they are buried under the sand/ rocks etc. All the U shaped structure etc was support for the Kiln

View attachment 1407668View attachment 1407669

She claims that this box sled is actually a tar funnel

View attachment 1407670View attachment 1407671

She points out that this is a reason that all the timber found in the drains etc is in such good condition as it was heavily soaked with pine tar a preserver of wood from the process. She quotes several “experts’ who are supportive of her theory


She also claims other evidence found may be that of making ship masts (she claims these were soaked in the swamp to season) etc as the Naval stores enterprise made many thins (This is interesting as it may fit with the recent article on softening coconut fibres as well — as Joys explanation for the coconut fibres is pretty poor in my opinion ).

View attachment 1407672

She claims the reports of fires and lights on the island were people seeing the tar kilns flame up and explode as they often did.

Flood tunnel

She gives a very good theory to explain the water at 100ft — soil liquefaction caused by volcanic action and vibration in damp clayey soil. Basically some soil turns liquids’ and flows out to sea leaving a natural tunnel in the remaining soil.

View attachment 1407673

Initial Problems with Theory in my view

1. Is there really evidence that the sea level rose by that much over 250 years?
2. Why by 1790s had everyone in the area forgotten that there was a significant enterprise making naval stores on OI that was there until the 1750’s
3. Why did people think the lights were strange if they new heaps of people were on the island making naval stores
4. Is soil liquefaction real
5. She does not really explain the coconut fibres
6. She claims the chapels vault was so deep because the volcanic action caused the shaft to collapse a significant depth into the cavity’s below (is this a viable explanation).

This is just a start I hope some others will now join in with some more detailed discussion of her theory/views

Very interesting and on point........mostly, except:
1. No evidence of volcanic activity
2. the drains are way too far from the pine tar kilns to have worked, the tar would have cooled and stopped flow.
3. the fibers have never been definitively identified as coconut.
however, it is a start in the right direction.....notice there was no mention of Templars, Romans, Aliens or time travel portals

 

[Singlestack Wonder]

And chappel never found a vault.....just an idea to suck in more investors.....

 

[gazzahk]

It was a few years ago I read her book now so do not remember it all. But I do feel her theory is the most plausible explanation of the evidence of early industry on Oak Island. It is very frustrating that the Laginas will bring on any wacko with a totally ridiculous story but will not bring on a respected local historian that has spent much of her life studying oak island history to share her view of the oak island story.

I would really be interested in how she thinks what they have found in the past few seasons could be fitted into her theory. The Laginas though will not even consider any non treasure related explanations as it would be to admit that the pre 1790s history of oak Island was just ordinary industry.

I am thankful that the laginas have answered the question about whether there is treasure buried in the money pit but it seems that they are not even remotely interested in answering what actually happened there.....

 

[gazzahk]

And chappel never found a vault.....just an idea to suck in more investors.....

I agree... It would seem he just drilled into some one elses ealrer search tunnel and then added wishful thinking. The laginas have showed the only man made things buried in the money pit area are the remains of earlier searches efforts.

 

[Singlestack Wonder]

20 years from now when folks have forgotten about the show, new hoaxers will re-start the myth and find “multiple mysterious steel tubes leading deep into the ground that filled with water from traps.”

The narrator will state, “What’s that? Steel tubes built by the original depositors? What treasure did the Irving’s hide on the island?. The Holy Grail, Ark of the Covenant, bacon’s body, Aztec gold, or Martial troll dolls?”...

 

[gazzahk]

20 years from now when folks have forgotten about the show....

Or we will be up to season 28... OI will look like this



And a very old Rick will be saying... In season 29 we will just need to dig 10 foot deeper and the treasure will be ours.....

 

[MikeN]

Or we will be up to season 28... OI will look like this

View attachment 1894420

And a very old Rick will be saying... In season 29 we will just need to dig 10 foot deeper and the treasure will be ours.....

But will Rick be able to dig fast enough to catch up with the Chappell Vault or will it sail out of sight?

 

[will7782]

I can see it is possible that OI was used for the several things suggested, ie: making pine tar, salt production, ship repair etc

Simple question, Why is there no record of this

If it was a repair station for ships, there must be MANY mentions of it in various ships logs. There would necessarily be notifications of "hey, if your ship breaks down, go to OI where they can fix it". There must be some examples of a ships log mentioning pulling in there for several weeks to make a new mast.

if a merchant ship picked up a load of pine tar or salt or fish or ANYTHING, that would be down in several logs.

I am not declaring that there was treasure involved, but showing how these theories have as many holes as the others

 

[Al D]

I can see it is possible that OI was used for the several things suggested, ie: making pine tar, salt production, ship repair etc

Simple question, Why is there no record of this

If it was a repair station for ships, there must be MANY mentions of it in various ships logs. There would necessarily be notifications of "hey, if your ship breaks down, go to OI where they can fix it". There must be some examples of a ships log mentioning pulling in there for several weeks to make a new mast.

if a merchant ship picked up a load of pine tar or salt or fish or ANYTHING, that would be down in several logs.

I am not declaring that there was treasure involved, but showing how these theories have as many holes as the others

There probably are many records and such, just that the Bozo brothers are not going to show them on their show

 

[n2mini]

but with all the "expert researchers" on here why have none found it either. Some are quick to discredit others on their research but as will7782's shows here is ya'lls chance to prove your theory yet no one has found anything...

 

[DaveVanP]

I think what alan m stated would indicate that if anyone HAD found any such records...it doesn't support their theories, therefore it is ignored.

Just last week, alan m made a similar statement concerning "coconut coir": "The fibers were identified by one university as eel grass, which is abundant on OI, however, eel grass did not support the pirate treasure narrative, hence it was ignored."

Just as the Arizona Gazette, the paper that printed the "Egyptian City in the Grand Canyon" story in April, 1909 printed a retraction a few days later admitting it was a HOAX - an April Fools prank...but still there are those (such as David Childress, Scott Wolter, and Graham Hancock) who claim the story is true, and deny any prank was admitted. (or that the "admission" is part of a Government conspiracy to "hide the truth")

 

[Singlestack Wonder]

I think what alan m stated would indicate that if anyone HAD found any such records...it doesn't support their theories, therefore it is ignored.

Just last week, alan m made a similar statement concerning "coconut coir": "The fibers were identified by one university as eel grass, which is abundant on OI, however, eel grass did not support the pirate treasure narrative, hence it was ignored."

Just as the Arizona Gazette, the paper that printed the "Egyptian City in the Grand Canyon" story in April, 1909 printed a retraction a few days later admitting it was a HOAX - an April Fools prank...but still there are those (such as David Childress, Scott Wolter, and Graham Hancock) who claim the story is true, and deny any prank was admitted. (or that the "admission" is part of a Government conspiracy to "hide the truth")

franklin missed the Arizona Gazette’s retraction and admission that the story was a hoax...

 

[n2mini]

I think what alan m stated would indicate that if anyone HAD found any such records...it doesn't support their theories, therefore it is ignored.

Just last week, alan m made a similar statement concerning "coconut coir": "The fibers were identified by one university as eel grass, which is abundant on OI, however, eel grass did not support the pirate treasure narrative, hence it was ignored."

Just as the Arizona Gazette, the paper that printed the "Egyptian City in the Grand Canyon" story in April, 1909 printed a retraction a few days later admitting it was a HOAX - an April Fools prank...but still there are those (such as David Childress, Scott Wolter, and Graham Hancock) who claim the story is true, and deny any prank was admitted. (or that the "admission" is part of a Government conspiracy to "hide the truth")

That might be true but I'd think if that info is out that someone besides the Laginas would have found it by now don't you think.
There are some that have tested the "coconut coir" and claimed them to be just that. Anything dug up in that area as far as eel grass/coconut coir at this point could easily be contaminated with each other as many times as the ground has been churned up...

 

[franklin]

franklin missed the Arizona Gazette’s retraction and admission that the story was a hoax...

I missed nothing. Post like yours is what is ruining History for everyone. The story of the Tucson Artifacts or the City of Calalus did not come out until after 1924. So there is not a big fat chance there could not have been a retraction in April of 1909. You always like to deal in FACTS. Well is 50 FACTS for you.Fifty "Facts" about the Tucson Artifacts - Calalus Calalus

 

[Singlestack Wonder]

I missed nothing. Post like yours is what is ruining History for everyone. The story of the Tucson Artifacts or the City of Calalus did not come out until after 1924. So there is a big fat chance there could not have been a retraction in April of 1909. You always like to deal in FACTS. Well is 50 FACTS for you.Fifty "Facts" about the Tucson Artifacts - Calalus Calalus

History written by writers who author fictional stories is not history....

 

[franklin]

History written by writers who author fictional stories is not history....

Another false statement by the man that likes FACTS.

 

[Singlestack Wonder]

Another false statement by the man that likes FACTS.

You believe the fictional writings of amundsen and muir. That would explain your promotion of other fictional tales....

 

[gazzahk]

That might be true but I'd think if that info is out that someone besides the Laginas would have found it by now don't you think.....

I believe J.Steele offered to come on the show and share her theory/research. The Laginas declined.. In her book she offers evidence that these types of activities were being carried out in the Americas/Canada (being a bit vague because do not remember exactly what she said)... There was a war where they normally harvested the naval stores in Europe.

n2mini why don't you read her book and see if you find her theory credible? I can recommend it is very interesting read for those who want to see a non treasure related theory/explanation of Oak Island from a respected local historian that has spent much of her life studying OI.

She offers much more evidence then the Laginas ever had for any of their widely speculative theories which have ZERO evidence to support them

 

[Al D]

I believe J.Steele offered to come on the show and share her theory/research. The Laginas declined.. In her book she offers evidence that these types of activities were being carried out in the Americas/Canada (being a bit vague because do not remember exactly what she said)... There was a war where they normally harvested the naval stores in Europe.

n2mini why don't you read her book and see if you find her theory credible? I can recommend it is very interesting read for those who want to see a non treasure related theory/explanation of Oak Island from a respected local historian that has spent much of her life studying OI.

She offers much more evidence then the Laginas ever had for any of their widely speculative theories which have ZERO evidence to support them

That would take too much effort, it is eaier to just watch BS TV and attack other posters whom disagree with it, lol