Alternative Theory - Naval Stores - J.Steele

[gazzahk]

Robot I agree. Taking the pine trees to Oak Island would be foolish. Besides wasn't the island covered with oak? A tar kiln on Oak Island is just scratching for an answer.

Not covered in Oaks just a grove of Oak trees.. Mainly pines were on the island. But oaks were useful in naval stores too. She does not argue that only pine tar was being made there but a variety of naval stores ie ship masts etc..

My question re her theory is more if they were cutting down heaps of pines on the island where are all the pine stumps?

I can see setting up the processing on a small island near the main land. ie easier to get things on and off the ships, easier to keep control of the slaves, easier to keep the natives away and protect your operation, I would guess they would of also been bringing logs across from the mainland on barges if her theory is correct. It may also be the case that being an island there were subject to different laws/rules etc or simply that it was cheap to acquire.

 

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[Singlestack Wonder]

All of this reinforces the fact that no flood tunnels have ever been found leading from smith's cove to the hoax pit area. The wooden pieces found near smith's cove were relics from the salt/tar kiln/fish drying/whatever operation was there.

 

[gazzahk]

All of this reinforces the fact that no flood tunnels have ever been found leading from smith's cove to the hoax pit area. The wooden pieces found near smith's cove were relics from the salt/tar kiln/fish drying/whatever operation was there.

Yep.. Definitely what I think. Some type of operation happened on OI at Smiths Cove BUT it definitely was not people burying the HOARDS OF THE KNIGHTS TEMPLER........

 

[Raparee]

Robot I agree. Taking the pine trees to Oak Island would be foolish. Besides wasn't the island covered with oak? A tar kiln on Oak Island is just scratching for an answer.

Well, it's a known fact that there was a sawmill on the island for a while. If people were willing to ship pine sawlogs to the island to be milled, I think that it would be safe to assume that people would have been willing to ship pine logs to the island to produce tar. Doesn't mean it DID happen, though. I just wouldn't discount the idea... I mean, the island isn't really that far off the mainland.

 

[Raparee]

My question re her theory is more if they were cutting down heaps of pines on the island where are all the pine stumps?

Pine rots quickly. Also, most of the island was cleared for agriculture, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Stretch Da Truth]

Yep.. Definitely what I think. Some type of operation happened on OI at Smiths Cove BUT it definitely was not people burying the HOARDS OF THE KNIGHTS TEMPLER........

I dont know what happened at Smiths Cove, hopefully we find out tonight.

But the burying of the Hoards of the Knights Templar was done in the Money Pit by the Freemasons... come on bud, ya gotta keep with us!
Just playing with you. Couldn't resist.

 

[n2mini]

Assuming the Finger Drains were made to produce salt, and granted I don't know how that process works with what we have seen being there in old photos but would it have not been easier to make salt by just boiling the water out which would kill any bacteria and then let what's left dry out.. Why go to the trouble of digging and building the drains and then covering them up and I also assume where ever the end of them is it's easily accessible to get the filtered water, to then still have to boil it down, or is that what is supposed to be happening in side the finger drains?? which you would then have to uncover to get to it and then recover for the next batch... I don't understand why anyone would go to all that trouble to filter sea water to make salt. Looks like a huge extra step in the process that isn't necessary.. Below is a simple process for making salt...
.
gather salt water, pour it into a large pot through cheesecloth and/or a sieve to remove any sand or debris, and boil until 90% of the water has evaporated. Then pour the thick salt water (it should look like wet sand) into a shallow baking pan and leave uncovered for 3-5 days, stirring occasionally.

 

[lokiblossom]

Assuming the Finger Drains were made to produce salt, and granted I don't know how that process works with what we have seen being there in old photos but would it have not been easier to make salt by just boiling the water out which would kill any bacteria and then let what's left dry out.. Why go to the trouble of digging and building the drains and then covering them up and I also assume where ever the end of them is it's easily accessible to get the filtered water, to then still have to boil it down, or is that what is supposed to be happening in side the finger drains?? which you would then have to uncover to get to it and then recover for the next batch... I don't understand why anyone would go to all that trouble to filter sea water to make salt. Looks like a huge extra step in the process that isn't necessary.. Below is a simple process for making salt...
.
gather salt water, pour it into a large pot through cheesecloth and/or a sieve to remove any sand or debris, and boil until 90% of the water has evaporated. Then pour the thick salt water (it should look like wet sand) into a shallow baking pan and leave uncovered for 3-5 days, stirring occasionally.

While encamped for the winter near the Pacific Ocean Lewis and Clark could make between 3 and 4 quarts of salt a day using this process.

Cheers, Loki

 

[Stretch Da Truth]

Somewhere on this site was a really good doc about how the beach and box drains could be used for salt production.
Salt was expensive back then and it made sense to make it here for the fisherman to salt the catches to make them last longer.
Will see if I can find it, maybe one of you guys know where it is, or read it or even wrote it.

Salt or tar, I like salt idea better, does seem a better explanation for whats on the beach as opposed to "Flood Tunnels" for "Some Buried Treasure" right?

 

[n2mini]

I understand they may have been used to make salt but why use them over just boiling the water out? As the Finger Drains sit or atleast what all the art shows them to be is enclosed box drains leading to 1 drain. Covered with coconut fibers to filter the water but if they have a top on them to enclose them the fibers only need to be where ever the water is supposed to enter them not all over the whole beach. They then still have to do something with the "filtered" water as it comes out the other end...

 

[Stretch Da Truth]

I understand they may have been used to make salt but why use them over just boiling the water out? As the Finger Drains sit or atleast what all the art shows them to be is enclosed box drains leading to 1 drain. Covered with coconut fibers to filter the water but if they have a top on them to enclose them the fibers only need to be where ever the water is supposed to enter them not all over the whole beach. They then still have to do something with the "filtered" water as it comes out the other end...

It might be a lot simpler that we are making it. On the show they draw up those nice diagrams so they can say they are flood tunnels leading to the MP area. What if they just drain back into the ocean so the salt accumulates on the eel grass and coconut fibers to be dried and collected later?
I could draw a pic that would look good and not tie into the flood drains but they wouldn't use it on the show as it doesn't fix the story they are telling.

 

[n2mini]

Maybe way back when they didn't know they could just boil out most of a pot of water and then the rest dry out over a few days and have salt compared to going to the finger drain/coconut fiber trouble. We'll never know for sure how much of that area was covered with the fiber but it supposedly a large area, and it had to be shipped over there. Just seems like alot of trouble to make salt that way..

 

[Stretch Da Truth]

Maybe way back when they didn't know they could just boil out most of a pot of water and then the rest dry out over a few days and have salt compared to going to the finger drain/coconut fiber trouble. We'll never know for sure how much of that area was covered with the fiber but it supposedly a large area, and it had to be shipped over there. Just seems like alot of trouble to make salt that way..

I hear ya. One would think boiling is easier unless you needed tons of salt. Then it would be how many kettles, how many fires, how much wood, how many guys to man the task.

If tons of salt was needed, a whole beach could supply tons of salt.

 

[gazzahk]

I hear ya. One would think boiling is easier unless you needed tons of salt. Then it would be how many kettles, how many fires, how much wood, how many guys to man the task.

If tons of salt was needed, a whole beach could supply tons of salt.

I do not believe D.Kings theory is the answer to Smiths cove. There is nothing that has been found that supports his view.

My views of the problems with the Salt works speculation are outlined in this post http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/oak-island/485273-not-possible-digging-deep-7.html#post5238647

Further to this I will add some comments on specific pieces of his article..
Here is an extract from his article..

An old historic method of making salt from seawater is described by Professor Le Conte as “lixiviating saline sand and then boiling the brine” (10). He records that salt is made by this method on a small scale in Normandy (he published his work in 1862). The tide is allowed to cover beach sand, which dries after the tide recedes, leaving a mixture of salt and sand. The sand is then removed to sheds, then is transferred to pits where seawater is added. The seawater dissolves the salt in the sand, thus increasing the concentration of salt in the water. The concentrated salt solution is then boiled to extract the salt.

If this was his theory this would suggest that after each tide they now had to dig up the sand on the beach to get the alt form it. Why would the salt be concentrated on the sand? This is the method that he is basing his theory on. (But later goes on to say it was not done this way and comes up with his own theory which is not based on any other salt making method that he quotes as examples)

D.King himself argues that no solar evaporation of the water was being done to help produce the salt being done on OI

Because of the relatively cold climate of maritime Canada, producing the salt by solar evaporation was not feasible. The only way to manufacture salt economically on Oak Island was to concentrate seawater by one of the known processes used before the 1800s, and then boil the concentrated salt solution.

He claims that there is a natural saltwater spring. I have seen no evidence of this anywhere else mentioned. What is he trying to suggest that somehow next to OI there is a mysterious source of extra salty sea water. If this was the case then the coffer dam would never be dry as the spring would fill it. Why would the "spring water” be any more salty then the rest of the sea. If this spring was outside the coffer dam then it would simply mix with the ocean. Why has no one mentioned this salt water spring?

As to this argument

The natural saltwater spring, and/or controlled amounts of seawater through channels in the dyke, would be allowed to permeate the sand on the artificial beach by capillary action. Wind and sun would dry the sand leaving a mixture of salt and sand. The process would be repeated at regular intervals until there was a considerable quantity of salt in the sand. In the meantime the tides would be kept off the beach by the dyke. Once sufficient salt had accumulated in the sand on the artificial beach, a larger than usual but still controlled inundation of seawater at high tide would be allowed through the dyke, covering the beach and dissolving the salt in the sand as the water dripped through the coconut husk and eel grass layers down through the rocks and through the finger drains to the well. The purpose of the coconut husk and eel grass layers was to sieve out any sand and silt from the concentrated salt solution before it reached the well.

There is no explanation as to why this process would concentrate salt on the beach. There would have to be at least 5-7 foot of water allowed into the dam to get to the top of the beach. This would mean any salt sand would just be exactly the same as the sea water... Why would water that dripped to the drains be anything other than just sea water? The drains were meant to be covered with flat rocks so how would the water drip into them anyway? Why would sea water that was not directly over the drains drip into the drains rather than just flow back out to sea when the tide went down? How would those drains catch saltwater form the parts of the beach that are not near the drains?

D.King next statement is now a complete NEW method of alleged salt making and is not based on any other method ever used

Oak Islands salt works where I believe the salt-sand mixture was not moved at all but instead left in situ with the concentrated salt solution being produced by allowing fresh seawater to drain through the salt-sand mixture (dissolving the salt therein on the way) and then through the finger drains to accumulate as a concentrated salt solution in the well.

If fresh sea water is allowed over the beach then the salt concentration on the sand is going to be exactly the same as the sea water it mixes with.

As shown from this source

Believing now that the flooding tunnels were connected to the sea, men scoured the island's shores. At an area known as Smith's Cove, they found a fascinating structure. The company built a temporary dam, called a cofferdam, to uncover a large overlay made of coconut husk, 145 feet wide and the length of space between low tide and high tide. Underneath the coconut husk was a layer of beach stones five feet deep. Beneath the beach stones were five finger-drains constructed of flat stones, converging into a single drain. The coconut husk worked as a barrier against sand to allow water into the drains.
However, soon after the company found the mysterious finger drains, a storm hit and destroyed the cofferdam. The company then decided to dig shafts between Smith's Cove and the Money Pit in an attempt to intercept and divert the seawater away from the Money Pit. However, after failing to reach water in this shaft, and after digging several more, the company ran out of funds and gave up.

Source: The Truro Company Discovers the Finger Drains - How Oak Island Works | HowStuffWorks

referencing this book: https://books.google.com.hk/books?id=yo_xAgAAQBAJ&redir_esc=y&hl=en

This setup would give that beach incredible drainage. No salt would sit on the sand as any water would drain Away as soon as the tide went out.

This just seems totally without any logic and in contradiction to things said earlier in the article.

If there was indeed a saltwater spring at Smiths Cove, then the area and depth of the artificial beach was deliberately chosen to be large enough to ensure saltwater from the spring would spread via capillary action over a sufficiently large volume of sand that natural evaporation of the saltwater would be complete before the water got through the layers of coconut husk and eel grass so no water would in fact get through to the well from this source.

This is a cold climate and this beach has excellent drainage. How would this evaporation occur in seconds?

Also he's speculations about rain water do little to support his own theory for the same reason. What evaporation…

However, what about rainfall falling on the beach? The depth of the sand (about two feet or 60 centimetres) seems sufficient to ensure that the water from a light to medium shower would evaporate before reaching the coconut and eel grass layers, so no problems. But a heavy downpour would admittedly result in the rainwater seeping right through the artificial beach and into the finger drains and so into the well.

This is why D.King theory is not even mentioned by any other authors who have studied OI and speculated as to the artificial beach..

 

[n2mini]

I hear ya. One would think boiling is easier unless you needed tons of salt. Then it would be how many kettles, how many fires, how much wood, how many guys to man the task.

If tons of salt was needed, a whole beach could supply tons of salt.

It could but it doesn't just appear in those Finger Drains, there is alot more to it and waiting for the sun to dry it out would take alot of time compared to boiling..

 

[Stretch Da Truth]

Good post gazzahk. Very good info and BAM, shot us all down!!!

To be clear, I don't think there is any thing like they keep showing on TV on the beach. But if there was, I was kind of thinking the salt idea was a decent one. I read the link to your post and now see this idea as being "very salty" LOL.
I am trying to remember, you like the drying out of fish better, right? Like everything on OI, so many theories, not enough time.

 

[gazzahk]

Good post gazzahk. Very good info and BAM, shot us all down!!!

To be clear, I don't think there is any thing like they keep showing on TV on the beach. But if there was, I was kind of thinking the salt idea was a decent one. I read the link to your post and now see this idea as being "very salty" LOL.
I am trying to remember, you like the drying out of fish better, right? Like everything on OI, so many theories, not enough time.

I am not sure my friend.. My thinking after reading Joys book and seeing the article on coir softening is something like this… (Pure speculation)

I think something was being done in Smiths cove that required the obvious effort that was put in there.

I think possibly more than one thing. If there was a naval stores operation there I could see the coffer dam actually being a sea wall and boats were loaded and unloaded the other side of the wall. Inside the seawall was structure/s like a winch/pulley system for loading unloading ships. To me the u-shapped structure looks like a foundation for some structure. This must have been built inside the sea wall/coffer dam.

The inside the dam is lower than the sea so the drains were needed to drain away water/rain/seepage etc into the sump. Could not drain into the sea as it was higher than the bottom of the area inside the wall.

Thus the drains were not directly related to the beach. I think it very much could have been something being dried on the beach. What did they feed slaves? Maybe something like sardines/ edible seaweed etc or the idea that they were trying to soften coconut fibre theory could also fit in with the naval stores theory.

It could have been a lumber/fishing operation being run off the island. It definitely in my view was not an elaborate flood tunnel system to hide a pit over 500 feet away….

 

[Stretch Da Truth]

I am not sure my friend.. My thinking after reading Joys book and seeing the article on coir softening is something like this… (Pure speculation)

I think something was being done in Smiths cove that required the obvious effort that was put in there.

I think possibly more than one thing. If there was a naval stores operation there I could see the coffer dam actually being a sea wall and boats were loaded and unloaded the other side of the wall. Inside the seawall was structure/s like a winch/pulley system for loading unloading ships. To me the u-shapped structure looks like a foundation for some structure. This must have been built inside the sea wall/coffer dam.

The inside the dam is lower than the sea so the drains were needed to drain away water/rain/seepage etc into the sump. Could not drain into the sea as it was higher than the bottom of the area inside the wall.

Thus the drains were not directly related to the beach. I think it very much could have been something being dried on the beach. What did they feed slaves? Maybe something like sardines/ edible seaweed etc or the idea that they were trying to soften coconut fibre theory could also fit in with the naval stores theory.

It could have been a lumber/fishing operation being run off the island. It definitely in my view was not an elaborate flood tunnel system to hide a pit over 500 feet away….

Good thoughts and it appears logic always wins out over most of the fantasy ideas for things on OI. One thing I just don't buy from your above statement is: "hide a pit over 500 feet away" Come on.... it is not over 500' away. Man, with statements like that we might start calling you a Lagina!

The most logical ideas are fishing, lumber, shipping use. We still don't know if the entire beach was dug up and covered with ell grass and coconut fibers. Maybe just that little section. The Lag boys will show us as they have never seen any pics of box drains or any other work done on Smiths Cove so until they dig it up, we just don't know.
Well actually we all know they will find all the scrap wood from previous people excavating the beach, call them ancient flood tunnels and then they finally have the proof they were looking for. Sounds eerily similar to the Money Pit Area....

 

[gazzahk]

One thing I just don't buy from your above statement is: "hide a pit over 500 feet away" Come on.... it is not over 500' away...

lol.. The pit is about 530 feet from smith cove I think I read in Joys book.

 

[gazzahk]

We still don't know if the entire beach was dug up and covered with ell grass and coconut fibers. Maybe just that little section.

As shown from this source quoted earlier the coconut fibres were over the whole beach

Believing now that the flooding tunnels were connected to the sea, men scoured the island's shores. At an area known as Smith's Cove, they found a fascinating structure. The company built a temporary dam, called a cofferdam, to uncover a large overlay made of coconut husk, 145 feet wide and the length of space between low tide and high tide. Underneath the coconut husk was a layer of beach stones five feet deep. Beneath the beach stones were five finger-drains constructed of flat stones, converging into a single drain. The coconut husk worked as a barrier against sand to allow water into the drains.

I do not believe anyone (writers re OI) have questioned this fact that the fibres were over the whole beach. Even last episode with them finding more fibres supports that these were all over the beach.