Alternative Theory - Naval Stores - J.Steele

[Singlestack Wonder]

I have eight seasons of film that prove "The Curse of Oak Island" is a fraud. ;-) At least based on what has been presented so far. #1 - curses are not real. #2 - they aren't finding any evidence of treasure. #3 - they are dragging it out because it has a gullible or starved for entertainment audience.

https://www.history.com/shows/the-curse-of-oak-island

+1000...........

 

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[Al D]

If we use the same measuring stick for this "theory" of a repair facility, simply prove it.

Those that come here and blast the show as a hoax and state how foolish people are that consider it plausible, then suggest alternative ideas WITH NO PROOF, are guilty of hypocrisy.

We should all be held to the same standard.

I suggest that you look up the meaning of the word “Hypocrisy”

 

[will7782]

Stay on point, boys. It is suggested that OI was a base to repair ships. I simply point out that there is no proof to that.

NONE

You can, yet again, change the subject. i expect you to because you cannot refute it.

 

[n2mini]

Good luck will7782 trying to get much across to SOME of them...

 

[ECS]

Good luck will7782 trying to get much across to SOME of them...

Thus spoke the holeologist.

 

[Al D]

Stay on point, boys. It is suggested that OI was a base to repair ships. I simply point out that there is no proof to that.

NONE

You can, yet again, change the subject. i expect you to because you cannot refute it.

There is absolutely no proof that OI was ever used as a base for ship repair.
it was suggested on the show based upon the idea that the swamp was a channel between two half's of the island, but coring samples taken from the swamp proved that the idea was false.
it was also based upon the idea that the rock formation discovered was a pine tar kiln, however, it bears no resemblance to any drawing or known pine tar kiln.
finally, the island offers no protection or hidden advantage for such an operation.
the whole idea was just another wild guess by the team who seem to have the innate inability to rationalize any plausible scenario based upon what they have uncovered on the island.

 

[n2mini]

This from one of the many other threads on here that end up just talking about the same things.

Quote Originally Posted by will7782 View Post
Alan, to say there are "probably" records out there is a weak reply, at best. there are records of cabbage being grown on OI. if it were the location of something AS IMPORTANT AS A SAFE PLACE TO REPAIR A SHIP, which could save lives and valuable cargo, dont you think it would be well known?

Which side of this ship repair thing are you own. You quoted the above post by will7782 and then posted below as if you believe there was ship repair going on on the island and might have been a secret military operation.

"Not if it were a covert military operation" quote by alan m

Now in your above post you say there is no proof of there ever being ship repaired on the island.. Which is it?

 

[DaveVanP]

If we use the same measuring stick for this "theory" of a repair facility, simply prove it.

Those that come here and blast the show as a hoax and state how foolish people are that consider it plausible, then suggest alternative ideas WITH NO PROOF, are guilty of hypocrisy.

We should all be held to the same standard.

The whole "ship repair" HYPOTHESIS is merely presented as a MORE LIKELY and PLAUSIBLE explanation for these structures rather than the delusional conjecture of an "unloading facility" for the transport of several tons of treasure.

Such ship repair facilities are known to have existed in the Maritimes, and some have been preserved as historical sites; others have been abandoned and forgotten, and some abandoned ones have been found. MANY of them have NO RECORD as ever having existed.

The features found on Oak Harbor have SOME of the same features and characteristics of these known ship repair sites. These characteristics include a wide flat tidal area (more often than not paved with stones) used for "careening" (tipping) a ship to scrape its hull, a slipway lined with lumber for moving a ship to water from an area further inland; a rock-lined pit used to process pine tar; the use of oxen for dragging lumber from a wooded area to the repair site.

It had been SUGGESTED that since the artifacts, structures and other characteristics ARE "similar" to these known ship repair sites, that PERHAPS that's what has been found on Oak Island...and unless a MORE FEASABLE and LIKELY explanation can be found, the "ship repair" scenario is considered the "most likely".


During my academic studies in Maritime Studies, I assisted in researching many such sites in the Chesapeake Area and NC intercoastal areas, from the 17th and 18th Centuries, so I am familiar with some of the features they have shown on Oak Island. The paved careening field, slipways, pit tar pits, horse/mule/ox shoes,...once I even helped dig up a primitive, wood-framed drydock in Bogue Sound, NC - Blackbeard territory - but we never claimed Teach used it.

 

[Al D]

This from one of the many other threads on here that end up just talking about the same things.

Quote Originally Posted by will7782 View Post
Alan, to say there are "probably" records out there is a weak reply, at best. there are records of cabbage being grown on OI. if it were the location of something AS IMPORTANT AS A SAFE PLACE TO REPAIR A SHIP, which could save lives and valuable cargo, dont you think it would be well known?

Which side of this ship repair thing are you own. You quoted the above post by will7782 and then posted below as if you believe there was ship repair going on on the island and might have been a secret military operation.

"Not if it were a covert military operation" quote by alan m

Now in your above post you say there is no proof of there ever being ship repaired on the island.. Which is it?

You have a real problem with comprehending the English language, would it be easier for you if I were to conduct this discussion in another language?
I NEVER claimed that OI was anything................try to understand this, as difficult as it may be.
case in point, a covert operation does not mean a ship repair facility.

 

[n2mini]

but ship repair and tar pits were what was being talked about at the time. You sure have lots of posts to not be claiming SOMETHING one way or the other on OI. Forget it. Lets move on to something else..

 

[will7782]

but ship repair and tar pits were what was being talked about at the time. You sure have lots of posts to not be claiming SOMETHING one way or the other on OI. Forget it. Lets move on to something else..

exactly

 

[will7782]

Dave, I appreciate your REASONED reply.

Some thoughts. A repair facility in an emergency would seemingly be one time and forget deal. Ship is leaking, mast is failing, whatever. Lets pull into this cove, fix the problem and continue on. Ship's log says that they did just that on a random piece of land. Could explain OI, but there seems to be more construction than would be necessary for that. Don't you think?

If the facility is meant to be reused, I must think that the location would necessarily be shared, and recorded. Just common sense there.


An explanation that fits the physical clues and the "secrecy" would be if something nefarious was going on. Smugglers, pirates, Templars, space aliens etc



If it were military, there would be a record. the Manhattan Project was uber secret, yet there are plenty of records available now. imho

 

[DaveVanP]

There are sites even today along the coastal waterways of NC, that I am personally aware of, where local fishermen often pull their boats up to do repairs and maintenance (an I'm talking about 35-70 footers, as big as many 17th-18 century barks and galliots), and they are not on any map, not "recorded" anywhere, and are used for several seasons, then moved or abandoned, after they retrieve their equipment. Of course they no longer use "pine tar" but instead it is fiberglass and resin, epoxy paint, fuel and oil, and of which we find scraps and residue in the old sites. A lot cheaper than taking your boat to a commercial shipyard...and they don't appreciate others using them, so they keep it to themselves (plus EPA would fine the hell outta them). Coastal fishermen, both US and Canadian, are...different. Tough to become friends with, but once you have, they are the best.

 

[gazzahk]

tar pits were what was being talked about at the time...

Do not mean to be pedantic but J.Steele Theory is Pine tar Kilns not tar pits... Very different thing.

Given that this thread is about her theory as I said earlier I recommend people read her book and make their own judgements on the evidence she offers...

Something like this


https://maritime.org/conf/conf-kaye-tar.htm

This is an image of one from Canada



From J.Steeles book

 

[Phil]

The two piles of rock in the swamp that were discovered last year were used as ballasts in two ships.

This debate could be easily resolved if the Lagina's tested one of those rocks to determine where it is from.

 

[gazzahk]

For those who may be interested here is an online book on naval Stores industry in part of the USA

https://www.srs.fs.usda.gov/pubs/gtr/gtr_srs240.pdf

Here is a pic of the finding of an ancient tar kiln (You can see the leftover charcoal) (In Europe)



And a drawing of one from North Carolina

 

[Eldo]

The idea of a ship repair hub AND the depository for Pirate troves is VERY plausible but from the late 1560s more like......

The story of David Ingram's Impossible Walk shows just that

After long travayle the foresaid David Ingram (with) his two companions Browne and Twyde came to the head of a ryvar called (left blank) … 60 leagues west from Cape Britton where they understode by the people of that countrye, of the aryvall of a Christian.

He was picked up in Cape Breton with his officers, and when asked what they were doing there by the french fisherman M. Champaign they said that they had been camping 60 miles west of that area, having just made an impossible walk from their scuttled ship in the Gulf of Mexico in 11 months

60 Miles west of Cape Breton is the exact distance to Oak Island

Ingram was a Privateer under contract to attack passing Spanish ships and it was a perfect place for them to attack, capture, and repair them to use them to Pirate more, scuttling them when they wanted after fighting the Spanish.

The island had obviously acted as one of their repair camps with the Pit originally dug as a drain pit for the swamp, which was then used with the tides to fill again and then remove the repaired ship.

When the English found out about this 13 years later, Bacon decided that when coming through the area with Champlain, and while leaving a map of carvings along the path, he would be then able to use the pit as a trap for them if they returned there, leaving nothing but a page of his manuscripts and the large cipher stone at the bottom of the pit....

Then he left the other markers to find a mapping point off the island and continued to leave confusing "circle speak" behind in the trail to the end, which would circle around back to the Island forming a sort of deceptive round that kept them spinning.

Only by following the (Nolan) Cross would you find the way.....and from the riddles in the Bible and Shakespeare....oh and that pesky painting by Poussin......

 

[DaveVanP]

"After long travayle the foresaid David Ingram (with) his two companions Browne and Twyde came to the head of a ryvar called (left blank) … 60 leagues west from Cape Britton where they understode by the people of that countrye, of the aryvall of a Christian."

A "league" is a distance that varies with the nation using it, but all are in the same ballpark - about 3-4 miles, determined by the average distance one can march in an hour. The English league of the 16th Century was 3 miles. So being "60 leagues west from Cape Breton" would put him *about* 180 miles travelled, or about 120 miles further "west from Cape Breton"...is that anywhere near Oak Island? If the narrative is inaccurate in that respect, how can its accuracy be assumed for anything else?

 

[Raparee]

...

60 Miles west of Cape Breton is the exact distance to Oak Island

...

60 miles from where in Cape Breton?

 

[Singlestack Wonder]

The idea of a ship repair hub AND the depository for Pirate troves is VERY plausible but from the late 1560s more like......

The story of David Ingram's Impossible Walk shows just that



He was picked up in Cape Breton with his officers, and when asked what they were doing there by the french fisherman M. Champaign they said that they had been camping 60 miles west of that area, having just made an impossible walk from their scuttled ship in the Gulf of Mexico in 11 months

60 Miles west of Cape Breton is the exact distance to Oak Island

Ingram was a Privateer under contract to attack passing Spanish ships and it was a perfect place for them to attack, capture, and repair them to use them to Pirate more, scuttling them when they wanted after fighting the Spanish.

The island had obviously acted as one of their repair camps with the Pit originally dug as a drain pit for the swamp, which was then used with the tides to fill again and then remove the repaired ship.

When the English found out about this 13 years later, Bacon decided that when coming through the area with Champlain, and while leaving a map of carvings along the path, he would be then able to use the pit as a trap for them if they returned there, leaving nothing but a page of his manuscripts and the large cipher stone at the bottom of the pit....

Then he left the other markers to find a mapping point off the island and continued to leave confusing "circle speak" behind in the trail to the end, which would circle around back to the Island forming a sort of deceptive round that kept them spinning.

Only by following the (Nolan) Cross would you find the way.....and from the riddles in the Bible and Shakespeare....oh and that pesky painting by Poussin......

How could someone follow Nolan's cross way back then when he just built it just a few years ago?