O
Old Silver
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spartacus53 said:Easy, cut teh earth in 1/2 and count the rings
Or tickle it on the chin and count it's teeth.
AGE OF THE EARTH...
- Thread starter Rebel - KGC
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Or tickle it on the chin and count it's teeth.
Mighty AP
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Wow you guys are smart with all the scientific data n' wut-knot. I cant keep up........Pop dropped me on my head as a child, repeatedly! So many big "college-boy" words. 
gallileo60
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mrs.oroblanco said:
Well why did he create lucifer knowing that he would betray him...Kinda stupid wasn't it
? Why did he create the "tree" knowing they would eat from it Pretty poor planning..There is NO god, like you want to believe in...
mrs.oroblanco
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Lucifer isn't God. Lucifer is no different than some humans we have locked up (and some that are running the streets).
The tree was possible meant for restraint, reserve and self-control and moderation.
Here is paradise, everything is yours except this: this tree. A tree of complete knowledge - we don't WANT or NEED to know everything there is to know - that's why we have to have faith. After they ate of it - they knew they were naked, and were ashamed, etc.
Kind of the same reason some people cheat on their spouses - it is "forbidden fruit" (now how did we get THAT term?), its new, its different, its exciting. So here is the trade-off - your spouse, your children, your house, your car, your salary - or, take this chance, and if you get caught, you lose all the things you had before. Adam and Eve got caught. We were given free will - sometimes, we don't use it very well.
There are many forms of Lucifer out there - drugs, alcohol, sex, money - we make the decisions - we reap what we sow.
B
The tree was possible meant for restraint, reserve and self-control and moderation.
Here is paradise, everything is yours except this: this tree. A tree of complete knowledge - we don't WANT or NEED to know everything there is to know - that's why we have to have faith. After they ate of it - they knew they were naked, and were ashamed, etc.
Kind of the same reason some people cheat on their spouses - it is "forbidden fruit" (now how did we get THAT term?), its new, its different, its exciting. So here is the trade-off - your spouse, your children, your house, your car, your salary - or, take this chance, and if you get caught, you lose all the things you had before. Adam and Eve got caught. We were given free will - sometimes, we don't use it very well.
There are many forms of Lucifer out there - drugs, alcohol, sex, money - we make the decisions - we reap what we sow.
B
B
BigDan
Guest
Just adding my two cents, respectfully. First, a question, you can find scientists in many fields who are also Christians, but can you find any "young earth" scientists who are not Christians?
Here's my take on the thing. The Earth is roughly 5 billion years old based on our best information. Simply disputing that information is not going to create better theory. Problem being trying to fit a "young earth" theory into the context of the Bible is already exhibiting a bias.
The Bible isn't a science book. It was written to be read by persons from thousands of years ago and for every generation since. It had to be understood by people who thought the world was flat, that thought the earth was the center of the universe, and by people today who understand much more about everything around them. It was written to be read and understood by people in our future who presumably will know much more than we do now!
It is written so simply that with a little help a child can get the gist of it, yet so profoundly that know one understands all of it. Again, it is not a science book, and frankly I think it is abusive to the much more important purpose of it's existence, to try to use it as a science book.
Much like this Creation Science push in the classroom. I think that is a mistake made by well meaning people. I'd much rather Creation be taught by experts in the church than by amateurs in the school. Let the schools teach science. Let the Church teach about God.
Here's my take on the thing. The Earth is roughly 5 billion years old based on our best information. Simply disputing that information is not going to create better theory. Problem being trying to fit a "young earth" theory into the context of the Bible is already exhibiting a bias.
The Bible isn't a science book. It was written to be read by persons from thousands of years ago and for every generation since. It had to be understood by people who thought the world was flat, that thought the earth was the center of the universe, and by people today who understand much more about everything around them. It was written to be read and understood by people in our future who presumably will know much more than we do now!
It is written so simply that with a little help a child can get the gist of it, yet so profoundly that know one understands all of it. Again, it is not a science book, and frankly I think it is abusive to the much more important purpose of it's existence, to try to use it as a science book.
Much like this Creation Science push in the classroom. I think that is a mistake made by well meaning people. I'd much rather Creation be taught by experts in the church than by amateurs in the school. Let the schools teach science. Let the Church teach about God.
Saturna
Bronze Member
Absolutely correct, BigDan. "Young Earther" equals Christian. (Although Christian does not always equal Young Earther).
This means if a Young Earther proposes what they call science to 'prove' their theory, it really is more of an attempt to add validation to their pre-held beliefs.
gallileo60
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mrs.oroblanco said:
So your telling me that God did not create Lucifer
I thought he was supposed to have created all things.. Also he already knew in advance before he created Adam, and Eve, what they were going to do....He knew they would eat the fruit when he made it.....Anyway, enough of this debate.......The Earth is extremely old.......The Universe older still.....Humans, not so very old at all....
Shortstack
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Big Dan,
Creation Science is NOT being pushed for inclusion in our public schools. The THEORY of INTELLIGENT DESIGN is the subject area being requested for inclusion in our public schools WITH the THEORY of Evolution and the THEORY Big Bang. Equal presentation to provide FULL information to our young folks.
Evolutionists and Big Bangers believe we all came from chemical reactions from rain falling on rocks.
Bangers invent "stuff" to support their screwy theory. For example, they claim there is matter "missing" from the universe. They NEVER explain HOW they arrived at that idea. I mean, if nothing exploded and made everything, how do they get the idea of exactly HOW MUCH "stuff" was formed.
Some folks made mention of the Bible as if it was written as a book of instructions for life. Please understand, the Bible was not WRITTEN; it was COMPILED. It was compiled from documents written by different individuals from their personal experiences or from verbal histories passed down to them. Those documents were written as stand alone records of what had happened and what was happening up to that time. Some people believed the world was flat because they didn't read the Bible. The Bible told them and tells us today, that the earth is a sphere hanging in nothingness. Oceanographers would have learned a lot sooner, that there are mountain ranges hidden beneath the oceans of the world, if they'd read the Bible. Jonah TOLD them about those mountains thousands of years before the bathyscaphe was invented. The Bible indicated to us that there was a way for heavier than air vehicles to fly under their own power, thousands of years before the Wright Brothers, and then others, demonstrated to the, then, world exactly HOW it is done.
If ignorance truly is bliss; atheists are some incredibly happy folks and agnostics are jolly people.
They make fun of how religious people believe in God and how they have FAITH that the Bible is true. But, it takes far more faith to believe in the Big Bang and evolution as taught in our schools today than to believe in Intelligent Design. Therefore, Evolution is, in fact, a RELIGION. If the religion of Evolution is to be taught in public schools, then the religion of Intelligent Design should ALSO be taught.
There has been many comments about the earth's age being billions of years old. The people saying that are parroting the comments of one sect of scientists as if those scientists are infallible when, in fact, those scientists have been wrong many, many times. Their theories have become shaky and they're having to rethink things.
Creation Science is NOT being pushed for inclusion in our public schools. The THEORY of INTELLIGENT DESIGN is the subject area being requested for inclusion in our public schools WITH the THEORY of Evolution and the THEORY Big Bang. Equal presentation to provide FULL information to our young folks.
Evolutionists and Big Bangers believe we all came from chemical reactions from rain falling on rocks.
Bangers invent "stuff" to support their screwy theory. For example, they claim there is matter "missing" from the universe. They NEVER explain HOW they arrived at that idea. I mean, if nothing exploded and made everything, how do they get the idea of exactly HOW MUCH "stuff" was formed.
Some folks made mention of the Bible as if it was written as a book of instructions for life. Please understand, the Bible was not WRITTEN; it was COMPILED. It was compiled from documents written by different individuals from their personal experiences or from verbal histories passed down to them. Those documents were written as stand alone records of what had happened and what was happening up to that time. Some people believed the world was flat because they didn't read the Bible. The Bible told them and tells us today, that the earth is a sphere hanging in nothingness. Oceanographers would have learned a lot sooner, that there are mountain ranges hidden beneath the oceans of the world, if they'd read the Bible. Jonah TOLD them about those mountains thousands of years before the bathyscaphe was invented. The Bible indicated to us that there was a way for heavier than air vehicles to fly under their own power, thousands of years before the Wright Brothers, and then others, demonstrated to the, then, world exactly HOW it is done.
If ignorance truly is bliss; atheists are some incredibly happy folks and agnostics are jolly people.
They make fun of how religious people believe in God and how they have FAITH that the Bible is true. But, it takes far more faith to believe in the Big Bang and evolution as taught in our schools today than to believe in Intelligent Design. Therefore, Evolution is, in fact, a RELIGION. If the religion of Evolution is to be taught in public schools, then the religion of Intelligent Design should ALSO be taught.There has been many comments about the earth's age being billions of years old. The people saying that are parroting the comments of one sect of scientists as if those scientists are infallible when, in fact, those scientists have been wrong many, many times. Their theories have become shaky and they're having to rethink things.
B
BigDan
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Thank you Shortstack...
...for your respectful reply. I accept your correction, that it is The Theory of Intelligent Design, being requested for inclusion along with The Theory of Evolution and the Big Bang Theory. Thank you. I have a question, how will it be taught? There are so many beliefs that differ, is it going to be an amalgamation of them all? A general explanation? I could accept a carefully prepared science lesson that included something of the sort. If, such a lesson is not focused on a specific faith. And if such a lesson makes clear that the scientific method is not part of such a belief.
I was aware of how the Bible was created. But thank you.
Regarding some of your examples, I would caution that "cherry picking" certain verses often leads to misinterpretation. I'm not saying you are wrong. But people have pulled quite a few "daisies" out of the good Book. An example, predictions of the end, repeatedly, in the 1800's. Another example, the Earth was flat because the tribes of Israel were scattered to the "four corners". Please recall that The Church tortured and executed Giordano Bruno for his role in promoting the idea that the Earth revolved around the sun, and that if the stars were really distant suns, there must be life on other planets.
I can't speak for atheists or agnostics, as I am a Christian. The church I grew up in spent more time leading souls to God than in discussing the age of the Earth. I don't believe how someone "absorbs" scientific theory and religious salvation has much to do with being saved. But, others likely see it differently.
Thanks again for the response.
...for your respectful reply. I accept your correction, that it is The Theory of Intelligent Design, being requested for inclusion along with The Theory of Evolution and the Big Bang Theory. Thank you. I have a question, how will it be taught? There are so many beliefs that differ, is it going to be an amalgamation of them all? A general explanation? I could accept a carefully prepared science lesson that included something of the sort. If, such a lesson is not focused on a specific faith. And if such a lesson makes clear that the scientific method is not part of such a belief.
I was aware of how the Bible was created. But thank you.
Regarding some of your examples, I would caution that "cherry picking" certain verses often leads to misinterpretation. I'm not saying you are wrong. But people have pulled quite a few "daisies" out of the good Book. An example, predictions of the end, repeatedly, in the 1800's. Another example, the Earth was flat because the tribes of Israel were scattered to the "four corners". Please recall that The Church tortured and executed Giordano Bruno for his role in promoting the idea that the Earth revolved around the sun, and that if the stars were really distant suns, there must be life on other planets.
I can't speak for atheists or agnostics, as I am a Christian. The church I grew up in spent more time leading souls to God than in discussing the age of the Earth. I don't believe how someone "absorbs" scientific theory and religious salvation has much to do with being saved. But, others likely see it differently.
Thanks again for the response.
Shortstack
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Big Dan,
The examples I used from the Bible are pretty straight forward. For instance, when Jonah was describing his experience and what he saw while in "the belly of the whale". He said that he was taken, "down, down, down, even beneath the mountains of the sea." He could not know that there were mountains beneath the seas if he had not seen them. There were no means for deep diving in the seas in those days. Also, he did not see those things in the Mediterranean Sea, either, so one has to wonder where he was taken. The flying machine I mentioned was the object seen by Ezekiel.
As far as how to intergrate the teaching of Intelligent Design, that would be mixed in with whatever subject was being taught. And, since this country was founded on Judea / Christian principles; THAT would be the basis. I am DAMNED tired of bowing to the Muslims, Buddhists, and other religious sects. If they don't like our religious teachings, they can take their asses somewhere ELSE.
The examples I used from the Bible are pretty straight forward. For instance, when Jonah was describing his experience and what he saw while in "the belly of the whale". He said that he was taken, "down, down, down, even beneath the mountains of the sea." He could not know that there were mountains beneath the seas if he had not seen them. There were no means for deep diving in the seas in those days. Also, he did not see those things in the Mediterranean Sea, either, so one has to wonder where he was taken. The flying machine I mentioned was the object seen by Ezekiel.
As far as how to intergrate the teaching of Intelligent Design, that would be mixed in with whatever subject was being taught. And, since this country was founded on Judea / Christian principles; THAT would be the basis. I am DAMNED tired of bowing to the Muslims, Buddhists, and other religious sects. If they don't like our religious teachings, they can take their asses somewhere ELSE.
B
BigDan
Guest
Well, my friend...Bless you but you just lost me.
You see, I suspect we have very different interpretations of the Bible. And please understand this isn't personal, but I dang sure don't want you teaching my kids..and I'm sure you don't me teaching yours. We could go 'round and 'round about who's right..but that never ends, nor does it solve anything. That's why you can find half a dozen Christian churches in a town with less than 500 residents.
And, this country was founded on religious freedom. To stuff your idea of what constitutes "Intelligent Design" down every kids throat...flies in the face of the religious freedoms we earned with the blood of our soldiers.
And consider this....what if, what if you get your way right up to the point where they pick ME to write the lesson plan? Then you got a real problem 'cause I got your kids and I'm sticking my ideas in 'em! Now, I'm not evil enough to do that...but you know there are people out there that would love to "indoctrinate" your kids.
Nah, I don't want religion anywhere near public schools. Keep in mind the Equal Opportunity Employment Act, you just might GET a Muslim teaching your kids about God. Don't assume you're going to get your lesson picked when the freedom to choose our own religion is lost due to your ideals. And it will be when kids HAVE to learn about God in a public school.
Forgive me if this seemed harsh, it isn't intended to be.
Big Dan
You see, I suspect we have very different interpretations of the Bible. And please understand this isn't personal, but I dang sure don't want you teaching my kids..and I'm sure you don't me teaching yours. We could go 'round and 'round about who's right..but that never ends, nor does it solve anything. That's why you can find half a dozen Christian churches in a town with less than 500 residents.
And, this country was founded on religious freedom. To stuff your idea of what constitutes "Intelligent Design" down every kids throat...flies in the face of the religious freedoms we earned with the blood of our soldiers.
And consider this....what if, what if you get your way right up to the point where they pick ME to write the lesson plan? Then you got a real problem 'cause I got your kids and I'm sticking my ideas in 'em! Now, I'm not evil enough to do that...but you know there are people out there that would love to "indoctrinate" your kids.
Nah, I don't want religion anywhere near public schools. Keep in mind the Equal Opportunity Employment Act, you just might GET a Muslim teaching your kids about God. Don't assume you're going to get your lesson picked when the freedom to choose our own religion is lost due to your ideals. And it will be when kids HAVE to learn about God in a public school.
Forgive me if this seemed harsh, it isn't intended to be.
Big Dan
Shortstack
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Nothing harsh about your response, BD. I'll tell you one thing for sure; YOU writing the curriculum COULDN'T be any worse than the stuff being put out by the Department of Education via the members of the NEA that's being used to brainwash our kids in today's public schools.
B
BigDan
Guest
I know we're getting off subject...
...so I'll make one last observation about schools and segue back to the original topic.
I agree with you (except about me writing any lesson plans....not me friend) about the current classroom follies. I'm a believer in the basics, reading, writing, math, and I'll add history to that. Especially up to high school. But colleges want foreign language and science in the mix. Considering the monetary consequences, I desire to have my child get a college degree. (Even the factory that employees me will no longer promote line workers to foreman without a college degree...this seems an obvious and mistaken lack of respect for the experiences of their line workers..as I see it) I'll work with her to develop her spiritual and moral sensabilities...God willing, help her learn.
Back to the age of the earth. It's old. And the answer may be as elusive as "How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop". Some say five billion, some say much, much less....the wise owl takes the candy, eats it, and says, "Three".
Big Dan
...so I'll make one last observation about schools and segue back to the original topic.
I agree with you (except about me writing any lesson plans....not me friend) about the current classroom follies. I'm a believer in the basics, reading, writing, math, and I'll add history to that. Especially up to high school. But colleges want foreign language and science in the mix. Considering the monetary consequences, I desire to have my child get a college degree. (Even the factory that employees me will no longer promote line workers to foreman without a college degree...this seems an obvious and mistaken lack of respect for the experiences of their line workers..as I see it) I'll work with her to develop her spiritual and moral sensabilities...God willing, help her learn.
Back to the age of the earth. It's old. And the answer may be as elusive as "How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop". Some say five billion, some say much, much less....the wise owl takes the candy, eats it, and says, "Three".
Big Dan
Shortstack
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....the wise owl takes the candy, eats it, and says, "Three".
There it is!! 
There it is!! 
GL
Bronze Member
Goodness I have read about folks who attempt to use logic and science to prove their beliefs about a young earth but I have never, until here, actually held a conversation with one. It is fascinating to watch and read the responses. The depth of a persons faith must be immense to hold fast to this idea. Please continue. I'm reading and absorbing it.
I recently learned that I have a third child from a previous relationship and the mother is a steadfast young earther. It is always a lively conversation when we discuss it. Especially when we exchange verses(I was a student of the Bible for years) and we always end up verse swapping. Young Earth is a religious belief no matter how much it is claimed to be otherwise. It cannot really be discussed properly without the Bible.
I fully and wholeheartedly disagree with every aspect of every part of this idea. I find it impossible to consider the possibility of a young earth. However I do enjoy the banter and reading both sides points.
I recently learned that I have a third child from a previous relationship and the mother is a steadfast young earther. It is always a lively conversation when we discuss it. Especially when we exchange verses(I was a student of the Bible for years) and we always end up verse swapping. Young Earth is a religious belief no matter how much it is claimed to be otherwise. It cannot really be discussed properly without the Bible.
I fully and wholeheartedly disagree with every aspect of every part of this idea. I find it impossible to consider the possibility of a young earth. However I do enjoy the banter and reading both sides points.
Saturna
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GL said:
AB...SO...LUTE...LY.
Goodyguy
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Saturna said:GL said:
AB...SO...LUTE...LY.
.......and books on geology and the laws of physics.
GL
Bronze Member
Used in conjunction with the Bible.
Written when a lot of folks still believed leprosy was a curse and rainbows were magic and the world was flat and the stars were pinpoints of light just out of our reach.
I can understand religion without feeling the need to accept it as fact. The ease with which a devout man can denounce another devout mans beliefs makes me consider that perhaps neither is correct. Sometimes ancient knowledge is just plain wrong, letting go of a long held belief is very difficult and I understand why humanity is having issues with doing so. That doesn't mean a faithful person or their beliefs deserve to be condescended to, I hope I have not done this. I know, by re-reading some of my previous posts here, that I can seem that way. I am not trying to belittle anyone, just trying to understand why someone would believe this if their faith isn't the central part of their reasoning.
I mean no offense at all.
Written when a lot of folks still believed leprosy was a curse and rainbows were magic and the world was flat and the stars were pinpoints of light just out of our reach.
I can understand religion without feeling the need to accept it as fact. The ease with which a devout man can denounce another devout mans beliefs makes me consider that perhaps neither is correct. Sometimes ancient knowledge is just plain wrong, letting go of a long held belief is very difficult and I understand why humanity is having issues with doing so. That doesn't mean a faithful person or their beliefs deserve to be condescended to, I hope I have not done this. I know, by re-reading some of my previous posts here, that I can seem that way. I am not trying to belittle anyone, just trying to understand why someone would believe this if their faith isn't the central part of their reasoning.
I mean no offense at all.
Darkgold
Jr. Member
If the world is 4.5 billion years old, then explain to me how a rock with a footprint in it can surrvive in the elements for that long? The world isn't billions of years old. Why is it that human bones only last around 5 months before they become un-noticed but yet these so called dino bones are 4.5 billion years old.
People are known to make up things and the world being that old is one of them.
People are known to make up things and the world being that old is one of them.
GL
Bronze Member
Because the footprint was made in mud or volcanic ash that was buried and fossilized? Same with the bones of extinct animals and plants, they were buried and fossilized as the surrounding sediments slowly transformed(through known chemical and geological processes) the item into rock(such as petrified wood, shells or dino bones and teeth) or preserved the imprint of the item(leaves, footprints etc). Once exposed, these items are essentially rock therefore last like rock. The imprints are as solid as rock(sandstone, limestone etc) therefore last as such and are subject to erosion just as anything else. Because natural erosion can be an incredibly time consuming thing, these items can appear fresh after being exposed for tens of thousands of years depending upon their location.
There are plenty of unknown things out there, strange objects that appear to be manmade yet are embedded in rock that is millions of years old, items encased in rock that defy logic and have no reasonable explanation, yet. That isn't to say they can't be explained, it merely suggests we are incapable of explaining them at present. Just as early man was incapable of explaining lightning. Being incapable of explaining something doesn't mean it can't be explained eventually through science and a gathering of knowledge un-stifled by preconceived notions of how things are supposed to be. If it was then we would all still be afraid of witches and black cats. Open minds make discoveries, closed minds don't.
Here is another sliver of information from a slightly different perspective:
It takes the Solar System about 225–250 million years to complete one orbit of the Milky Way Galaxy. It is thought to have completed 20–25 orbits during the lifetime of the Sun and 1/1250 of a revolution since the origin of humans.
The Milky Way Galaxy(our galaxy) is one of billions of similar galaxies in the visible universe each containing billions of stars each holding the possibility of having it's own solar system including planets that may harbor life some of which could very well be just as intelligent as our own. Our sun isn't even a serious star. It is rather on the small side and orbits midway inside a single arm in a small to medium sized galaxy...we are far from unique and certainly not special in the cosmic sense of things. Our planet is practically microscopic comparatively speaking. These things are fact. Easily seen with telescopes and backed by mathematical absolutes and, to me at least, seem as obvious as 2+2=4.
There are plenty of unknown things out there, strange objects that appear to be manmade yet are embedded in rock that is millions of years old, items encased in rock that defy logic and have no reasonable explanation, yet. That isn't to say they can't be explained, it merely suggests we are incapable of explaining them at present. Just as early man was incapable of explaining lightning. Being incapable of explaining something doesn't mean it can't be explained eventually through science and a gathering of knowledge un-stifled by preconceived notions of how things are supposed to be. If it was then we would all still be afraid of witches and black cats. Open minds make discoveries, closed minds don't.
Here is another sliver of information from a slightly different perspective:
It takes the Solar System about 225–250 million years to complete one orbit of the Milky Way Galaxy. It is thought to have completed 20–25 orbits during the lifetime of the Sun and 1/1250 of a revolution since the origin of humans.
The Milky Way Galaxy(our galaxy) is one of billions of similar galaxies in the visible universe each containing billions of stars each holding the possibility of having it's own solar system including planets that may harbor life some of which could very well be just as intelligent as our own. Our sun isn't even a serious star. It is rather on the small side and orbits midway inside a single arm in a small to medium sized galaxy...we are far from unique and certainly not special in the cosmic sense of things. Our planet is practically microscopic comparatively speaking. These things are fact. Easily seen with telescopes and backed by mathematical absolutes and, to me at least, seem as obvious as 2+2=4.
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