A SAD DAY... Big Brother IS Watching...Some advice for you all.

[golden silver]

Today was a sad and alarming day for me guys. I know some of you have your own stories to tell but now I Golden Silver have one of my own. Are you sitting down? Today I was interogated by NCIS. To those who do not know that is the Military's form of the FBI. I will try and make this brief but it probably won't be.

At first I did not know why I was there but then I remembered another member of this forum telling a story about getting pulled aside at his bank and asked questions by the FBI. I have to be honest I am not sure I bought the story completely until now. They began by asking me my backround information and asked me if I handle a lot of money on the regular basis. I said that I did. Then they proceded to ask how many bank accounts that I have and I was up front and honest. I told them about 10 and where I had them. They asked me why I had them and I explained this hobbie. I am sorry but In this instance I think I am allowed to break rules #1 and #2 of CRHing. It is noteworthy to mention that they were stone faced and serious durring the entire questioning. I was very nervous but stayed straight faced and tried to appear calm because I knew if I was jittery they would be suspicious of my nervousness. They asked me how much a week I went through and how much money per year have I gone through. I said that I was not completely sure but it was over $200,000. Can you believe this guys but they new exactly how much I had gone through. They said it was more like $300,000. What they did next shocked me even more. They pulled out of a black bag a box full of torn wrappers. Lo and behold it was one of my boxes I had thrown away months ago in a dumpster. They had it in their possession. They then asked me if I had been to Harper Ferry West Va. and I said yes. Believe it or not they knew all the road trips I had been on and where. They asked if I had gone to Casinos and I said that I had not. They found it very odd that I did the amount of searching that I had done and that it was actually worth my time. I said that it was worth my time and that I plan on selling some for a down payment on a house. I explained my plans only because they asked what I was doing with the coin. I repeated over and over again that it was just a hobbie and that I am a sailor working to provide for my family and do this to help me save for the future. To show the extent of how much they know...they knew that when tellers asked me what I do with the coin I change stories and don't tell the truth like so many on this website. They knew that sometimes I would dump several thousand at different banks on the same day. All of this drew attention to them.

The Climax of the story and the most shocking part I think is that they followed me to my home. They wanted to come in and see my silver stash. I would not believe it if it did not just happen to me this morning. My wife is in disbelief and my Dad says we do not live in the same country anymore. It has not been the same country for a while now.

So a word of caution If this happened to me it is just a matter of time that someone is knocking on your doors. Be prepared. Another scary thing is that they showed me a law on paper that gives them the right to confiscate property (or in other words silver) if they feel you have carried out an illegal bank transaction which according to the law means several back to back transaction exceding $10,000 or more. I can provide the exact copy of this law and the wording to anyone who wishes to know it.

So what you thought they did not know about you they most certainly do.

...They know what you buy and when and where you buy it.

...They know where you search on the internet.

... They know where you live and work and where your family is.

... They can hear your phone conversations

... They can hear conversations inside your house via your cell phone even if you are not talking on your cell phone or when it is turned off. (So take your battery out if you want privacy at all).

This was a Sad and Scary wake up call of a day for me hope it does not happen to you. In the end they said they were satisfied that I was not a terrorist and would move on but I am still in shock. What a welcome back to the Great U.S of A!! God Bless.

Golden Silver

 

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[nyiangelo]

OK no offense GS but 3 pages into this, it ain't got squat to do with CRH anymore. Not your fault. Might see if Jeff will move it to an appropriate forum, unless we can bring the topic back to issues with CRH.....just a thought

 

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[gollum]

Beth,

Not technically. You would be considered to be temporarily assigned to the foreign unit. Just like when before the United States entered into WWII. Many American Military people were so incensed at what the Japanese were doing in the Pacific, they joined Canadian, Australian, and Chinese Forces to fight. They were put on temporary leave from their US Units. That is until after Dec 7, 1941.

nyiangelo,

This thread was only tangentially about coin roll hunting. It was mostly about GS being hassled by NCIS Agents because of his unusual bank transactions DUE to his coin roll hunting. It has evolved from just GS's experience to larger and more spectacular cases of government hassling.

Best-Mike

 

[golden silver]

Ok, I agree this has gone off topic and we should get back to the hobbie. We have past 200 comments which is record for me at least. Wow. Thanks for the comments and I think everything than can be said has been said. Until the next debate signing off.

Golden Silver

 

[ScoobaSteve]

What can you do to avoid a situation like the one Golden Silver experienced?
It would be interesting to find out what sparked the investigation but in the end I believe that it was a teller who made the call.

 

[golden silver]

Scooba, I think somone touched on it a page or two ago. When those tellers come and ask you what you do with all that coin they are not doing that because they are interested most of the time. They are doing it because they are trying to get info. In the end it most likely was my main bank that raised the flag either because they had to by law, because the computer system does it automatically, or because they chose to do it to. If they chose to do it was probably because they were genuinly concerned that I was a terrorist or they wanted me to stop bringing in so much coin. The experience has not stopped me from continuing the hobbie but I will just tell them I am a collector next time they ask. No changing my story. I will be transparent. Wish I could have taken your approach on the you tube video. That took guts my friend.

Golden Silver

 

[Troy Ounce]

Hmmm

 

[Troy Ounce]

I told you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[obediah]

I don't think the Tea Party folks are making much of an impression - mostly because those in power just consider them a good and necessary evil - as they give people something to look at and listen to while they continue on with their objectives - whatever they might be.

Its the "look over there", and pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, magicians slight of hand trick.

The idea is to be keeping the population busy with something else, (the major one being our safety) while they are doing what they want.

B

Yeah the Establishment which is behind both Party's is clearly attempting to coop the Tea Party movement; just found out today they have refused John Birch Society ad dollars to place ads at coming events. Congressman Ron Paul is Bircher too.

Most of the corrupt Republican politicians are hoping on the Tea Party wagon to control it from inside.

 

[jewelerdave]

What amazes me most is how much time, resource and energy is wasted by law enforcement on things that dont matter, and how little is put towards things that do!

I was robbed a couple years ago, and the police have done nothing. $60,000 gone forever. Sad thing is I knew who it was, and they disappeared from this community and have not been seen or heard of since.
the reason nothing has been done...the police are too broke to investigate. And there is no money in apprehending real criminals. Tickets on the other hand...that generates cash.

Keep in mind, no matter when, or how big or small or when. its about the Money and controll. Small kingdoms and fife domes of centuries ago. The Romans, Tribes of prehistoric people. All had more in common with Tony Soprano.
Today's Municipalities, Modern Governments, And the mob, and corporate powers, all run about the same.
They all have a leader, a hierarchy, and a way to keep and control order, the larger have a system of people to maintain that order to stop "trouble"

Weather is a bully on a playground with some buddies that maintain there control or an elected official who does not like another world leader. Its all scalable. But no matter what. No matter how much one wishes to believe its something its not. No matter how much brainwashing, propaganda or belief that things are not that way...does not change the fact that things are that way.

Because controlling money is so important, and has been since its creation. Its highly guarded. Particularly its control over who gets it, who gets to make more of it, and who controls who gets how much access too it etc. Bottom line is everyone cant be rich, and those who are, Will made darn sure you cant either...no one likes being stepped on. But some serious stepping has to go on for anyone to get disgustingly wealthy, And you need systems in place to keep yourself that way.

Sadly, the American Revolution had less to do with Freedom as much as it had to do with the Founding fathers avoiding taxes and protecting there wealth and interests, financial assets and control over there own domain.
How do you get a bunch of farmers and the "poor" to fight for your financial Cause? tell them its about freedom.

how does Haliburton gain control over vast amounts of Resources in the middle east? well you tell people its about freedom.


Anyway, No conspiracy there, just facts. And its Sad. but how it is. NOTHING CHANGES! Just the point of view.

As someone who does have to deal with large Cash transactions on a regular basis. I have to have the FBI form for more or just under $10,000 all the time filled out on me.
its not a bad thing, and if it shows as a normal pattern and you do not have anything to hide. the fact is you will be fine.
things may seem to not be the way they used to be...and I am glad. Id rather get a talking too by a couple guys who will find there investigation will come to an understanding of a nothing wrong because some red flags where raised as opposed to being drawn and quartered, stabbed, beheaded, garroted or god knows what other form of torture because it was cheaper than tossing someone in jail...and more efficient. Thank god thats all we have is wire tapping and little forms and annoyances of a few forms.
YES it sucks, should It be there? I wish not. Is the intent good? well to catch real criminals...of course.

Say GS was someone getting money to put towards some horrible terrorist act...well, obviously the system in place to check for things that are out of the norm...is there and working. So if he was planing on doing something wrong and was part of some cell....sure enough, he would know he is under the eye....yes, BIG Brother is watching...he is supposed to, thats his job.

Just always keep in mind, you can use the systems of check and balance to protect your rights too, you can get involved with government and make changes. Its a battle, but it can be done.
its all based on ideas. someone thought wiretapping is a good idea. and it was for some things, will it be abused. Defiantly. People will always use new technology to get ahead in some way or another.

We live in a very fast paced and changing world. And we have to adapt.

Look what happened to battles after the invention of the gun. Things changed from close hand to hand to standing a few yards away. Armor went away.
then it changed, to guerrilla tactics. And changed again, to fighting far away.
Now we have Lasers that can kill people via mirrors in space. And Machines that can make the decision to kill or spare...its a change.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Nice post.

The one thing that is not in there is a simple one.

When did US citizens become "the" terrorists? It is a small, small, small, minority of American citizens who may have had anything to do with terrorism. (McVeigh, Padilla and who ever spread the anthrax - that they STILL don't really know for sure).

Eyes should always be on the "real" terrorists. While we STILL cannot find a tall, skinny man, hauling around a kidney dialysis machine, they CAN find the guy in their backyard who is participating in a hobby that looks for silver coins.

I am curious - I'd like one single example - just one - where a terrorist, or potential terrorist - has been dealing in dimes, quarters and half-dollars at a bank. Just one.

B

 

[golden silver]

JEWELER DAVE, Always good to hear from you as you don't post very much in this forum anymore. I see your point but this change that you speak of does not give me the warm and cozies it makes me more uneasy that we are in danger of more loss of rights and privacy. Big brother is watching your right but I would feel better if they were catching the bad guys instead they spend months on a CRHer. I could do an investigation on a CRHer and be done in a week it would not be that difficult. Like I said I understand your thoughts but I am concerned that too many people will shrug their shoulders and say "eh its a part of life and they are just doing there job to protect me" instead of asking questions and seeking truth. Don't be such a stranger Dave. Good luck to you.

golden silver

 

[gollum]

Nice post.

The one thing that is not in there is a simple one.

When did US citizens become "the" terrorists? It is a small, small, small, minority of American citizens who may have had anything to do with terrorism. (McVeigh, Padilla and who ever spread the anthrax - that they STILL don't really know for sure).

Eyes should always be on the "real" terrorists. While we STILL cannot find a tall, skinny man, hauling around a kidney dialysis machine, they CAN find the guy in their backyard who is participating in a hobby that looks for silver coins.

I am curious - I'd like one single example - just one - where a terrorist, or potential terrorist - has been dealing in dimes, quarters and half-dollars at a bank. Just one.

B

Beth,

It doesn't matter if they are dealing in quarters and halves, or rupees and pounds sterling. It is the AMOUNT that is a concern. Everybody here keeps using the term TERRORIST. While terrorists are the bad guys du jour, I will tell you that just as big a concern with the Justice Dept and Military Intelligence is Foreign Espionage. REMEMBER: I told you about the Army Sergeant in Germany who was spying for the Russians that received about $300K over six years. That's a lot less money per week than GS was going through.

Best-Mike

 

[golden silver]

Gollum please... I had a savings of 8,000 that I just recycled and they knew that as they had access to my accounts.


Golden silver

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

So, how much of that $300,000 did he receive in dimes, quarters and halves?

Maybe I read the original parts incorrectly - this amount is WAY over what GS had, is it not?

B

 

[golden silver]

I never had 300,000. I just had filltered through that much over a years time. I have very little in my accounts now and most of my savings is in coin but it is no where near 300,000, not by a long shot.

Golden Silver

 

[gollum]

GS,

Don't tell me "Gollum Please". You previously stated that your deposits and withdrawals totaled $300,000 in two years. Now you say it was "A" years time. Even if it was only a couple of thousand at a time, IT ADDED UP TO A SUM TOTAL OF $300,000 IN EITHER ONE OR TWO YEARS.

As I have stated several times now: THE ARMY SERGEANT IN GERMANY HAD BEEN PASSING SECRETS TO THE RUSSIANS FOR SIX YEARS AND RECEIVED A SUM TOTAL OF ABOUT $300,000.

What part of my statement don't you understand? I never said you received $300K. I was just looking at things through the eyes of a Federal Investigator. They saw transactions totaling $300K. Granted, the big difference between you and the Army Sergeant Spy was the fact that your deposits were mostly zeroed out by your withdrawals. That's what kept your bacon out of the skillet.

Beth,

Come on. Unless he was a trust fund baby, there is NO WAY he could have had $300K in the bank from military pay. HAHAHA Unless Obama has some new pay programs going on (in which case I will immediately go back on active duty). The best the Navy ever did for me was to offer $20K to switch rates from Radioman to Cryptologic Technician Interpreter, then two weeks before I could actually sign the papers to reenlist, the CREO (manning levels) groups changed and RM became more critical than CTI (I.E. no $20K reup bonus). That's when I left the Navy and joined the Army.

Best-Mike

 

[golden silver]

Gollum please! woops I did it again. Sorry. Seriously just take it easy and drink a nice hot cup of We are all just having a friendly convo and you seem to be taking it personaly that I feel like I have been wronged in this situation. It seems like you have made it your personal mission to prove that I had this one a comin'. Take a deep breath and relax. whooo. Better? Good.

golden silver

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Gollum,

I think you misunderstood what I said (or meant). Not that the military guy had $300,000 - I meant I didn't think GS had $300,000. (of course the military guy couldn't make that much).

But, even a military guy is a different situation than the ordinary person on the street - you know, and I know, that, depending on security status, etc., all soldiers are under scrutiny - they have agreed to it by signing on that line, and raising your hand. The higher the rank, the more the scrutiny, and the more important the job, the more scrutiny - one would expect that. Like I've said before, the higher up my son's security clearance, the bigger his background checks became. From a letter from time to time for me to fill out, to telephone calls, to finally, personal home visits from the background checkers. (also the scope of investigation - it went from immediate family and a few friends to investigations of every thing from hospital stays to school dances and friends that he knew back when he was 12). But, that's expected, and, when you are in the military, you do give up some of your rights - and personal opinions. Heck, there was a time when our military people were not even allowed to vote.

Now, GS,

I can see how someone might try to figure out why you have exchanged $300,000 in a year, when you only have $8,000 in the bank. But, I just cannot condone HOW it was done - and I'm not sure why you took them to your home. Me, I'd be in jail, probably, because I wouldn't have done that, and probably not that cooperative.

I do have a question - is there a reason you lied to your bank? (if you did). Now, me - if they asked me and I didn't want them to know the truth, I'd say that I wanted to know why they wanted to know, and if I didn't want to say why, I'd tell them I didn't want to say why. Of course, you'd probably still have the issue, but I have seen similar situations and they were NOT handled the way yours was.

B

 

[golden silver]

It was not the fact that I lied so much as I changed my story I think. I would say that I was filling up coin albums to sell on ebay or looking for dates and mint marks. I never came out and said I was looking through them for silver. The reason...? I did what many on this forum do and that is keep the hobbie to myself. My concern was not to inform the tellers about what they could find by going through coin. To me it seems harmless enough but obviously someone did not like the fact that I did that. I did not want the silver cherrypicked nothing more. I guess I could have just said I am a collector and leave it at that but some tellers keep diggin and ask so what are you looking for? Ever find anything? etc.

golden silver

 

[mikeofaustin]

I would have replied (I don't know your age, so I'm just making assumptions now), I would have said, "Mr. Agent... Do you have a family? Children? Grandchildren? We'll I do. You sir, you are a middle aged guy with a job discovering potential liabilities based on a 'score book'. When you get as old as I am, you'll realize that being able to get out for a walk in the park swinging a coil is considered a very good day. Now, if you've had any incrementing evidence against me, I wouldn't be answering your questions. I'd already be in a cell. So, if you choose to use my hobbie to update you peoples little score book, I'm all for it, because time has shown that national security needs updating to say the least.".

So, with that... Hello there mister investigator. Why not investigate the corruption of the constitution of the united states. It's NOT "for the corp, by the corp". I know this isn't your department to investigate political corruption, but you have to think, if only half the people in Washington were to spend there efforts on helping people, versus being tunnel visioned by making 'campaign contributions', you would have half of those people that would have a more open mind, open ears, etc. But, that's a mute point. Humans are greedy by their own DNA. That's why communism works so well. Don't believe me? List just one democratic country that has lasted just a fraction of the time that a communist country has. Read: ROME!!! Rome was destroyed by corruption. In the begining they were fine. Look at us. The USA is only about 200 years old. How old is china? Read these words... "For the people. By the people." (there should not be any other definition, but somehow, it's already there). The founders of this country are turning in there graves from what happened to there document. You have to admint...even off the record, its' sad. Lets get the corporate out of the it!!!

//not an activist.