A LOOK AT JAMES BEVERLY WARD, AGENT OF THE BEALE PAPERS
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franklin
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Well the only man that ever talked to James Beverly Ward was Clayton Hart. He also talked to his son. Now did either one of them deny the Beale Treasure as a treasure to be found or did they say it was just a story to sell and make a dollar for the fire department. Clayton Hart said both James Beverly Ward and his son said the story was true. Clayton even talked to James Beverley Ward's neighbors and all of them said the man was honest and trustworthy. So where does that leave you. Do you deny that happened.
ECS
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Franklin, the source of that encounter is only in the HART PAPERS, there in NO outside collaborating evidence to prove that this meeting ever actually happened.
Just like Morriss telling the story to the "unknown" author and this "unknown" author contacting Ward, it is only the authors word, and that is not proof of anything.
Both would be considered fruit from the poisoned tree.
Now if you want to mention what Charles W Button stated, or Adeline Ward McVeigh told reporter Martha Rivers Adams, or what Pascal Buford's children stated, that would be a more reliable source but that would be contrary to what you want to here.
Just like Morriss telling the story to the "unknown" author and this "unknown" author contacting Ward, it is only the authors word, and that is not proof of anything.
Both would be considered fruit from the poisoned tree.
Now if you want to mention what Charles W Button stated, or Adeline Ward McVeigh told reporter Martha Rivers Adams, or what Pascal Buford's children stated, that would be a more reliable source but that would be contrary to what you want to here.
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franklin
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I do not believe that was the words of Adeline Ward McVeigh. I think her daughter said that her mother, Adeline, believed it as she believed her Bible. I think you will have to post that for us to read again. I have a copy if I only knew where it was but I read it a little differently than what you are quoting.
Also I have seen nothing that Charles W. Button stated about the Beale Treasure. How about placing some links up here on these two quotes of yours.
I have not seen a link to your claims of all those named people in the Job Print Pamphlet complaining about their names being in the pamphlet and asking for a retraction either. I believe you make some of this up as you go along and then you post it as fact. Give us the links.
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franklin
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Well I went back and read it. You can find it on Page 23 Angel Fire Ron Gervais. Click on the letter. It clearly reads that Adeline McVeigh believed the story to be true as the Bible. And it also states that she was in her right mind even at the age of 96. Her daughter said she also believed the story to be true. Mrs. McVeigh said that her father spent all of his time working on the cypher codes trying to find the treasure.
ECS
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Are you referring to the letter dated 30 April 1949 from Lt Thomas Fawcett to Col William Friedman?
http://www.angelfire.com/pro/bealeciphers/Graphics/We_left_Saturday.pdf
Why didn't you mention the concluding statement:
"The investigation which we made...tended to support the view that the whole story of gold buried in Bedford County by Captain Beale and his associates was spun from the imagination of Mr Ward".
Thank you, Franklin for this lead to the letter, I was not aware of that, for my source was the 1934 newspaper article by Martha Rivers Adams,in which Adeline Ward McVeigh state her belief that her father was the author.
This letter does not support the belief that the Beale Papers is a true story, so I am curious on why you directed us to it.
Did you read the entire letter, or just quoted only what supports your current position?
http://www.angelfire.com/pro/bealeciphers/Graphics/We_left_Saturday.pdf
Why didn't you mention the concluding statement:
"The investigation which we made...tended to support the view that the whole story of gold buried in Bedford County by Captain Beale and his associates was spun from the imagination of Mr Ward".
Thank you, Franklin for this lead to the letter, I was not aware of that, for my source was the 1934 newspaper article by Martha Rivers Adams,in which Adeline Ward McVeigh state her belief that her father was the author.
This letter does not support the belief that the Beale Papers is a true story, so I am curious on why you directed us to it.
Did you read the entire letter, or just quoted only what supports your current position?
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franklin
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Sorry to have misguided you. Post a copy of the 1934 newspaper article if you can because Lt. Thomas Fawcett could not find it. There again fifty fifty you find what you are looking for and I find what I am looking for. The only thing puzzling to me is why you continue to negate the Beale Treasure. Is not that against common sense. We may be able to prove the story is true but you will never find any information to prove it is false. Sorry I said I would not respond to you anymore and this is the last.
ECS
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- #229
There are three archive sites that contain the collection of Martha Rivers Adams articles from the NEWS & ADVANCE newspaper of Lynchburg.
It is very possible that Lt Thomas Fawcett considered further would be a waste of time on what he concluded was "spun from the imagination of Mr Ward".
It is very possible that Lt Thomas Fawcett considered further would be a waste of time on what he concluded was "spun from the imagination of Mr Ward".
franklin
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In other words you don't have a copy or a link. I thought not.
ECS
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You thought wrong, but with all this recent attitude directed at me, I reckon you can employ your 50 years of Beale research acumen to find those news articles of Martha Rivers Adams, or have you proven to yourself that Mrs Martha Rivers Adams or the NEWS & ADVANCE of Lynchburg is made up? HH
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franklin
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Well I see why you are always negative. You will get no more links or information from me bucko. Keep posting all the negative crap you want. I want nothing more to do with you. I see you are another sponge here on the forum. Good luck on proving negativity. It does exist and it is in the person of ECS.
ECS
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- #233
You consider anyone who posts information counter to the endless misinformation posted as fact on these Beale threads as negative.
No one, not even you, Franklin, has ever posted definitive proof of anything in the Beale Papers as actually ever happening.
Maybe, could be, lore, and hearsay are not facts, but posted quotes by those who in one way or another were involved with the Beale story, be it Button, McVeigh, the Friedmans, Faucett, Mateer, or the researcher at the LIBRARY OF CONGRESS, are opinions based on fact, not maybe, could be, hearsay or lore.
You can not even definitively prove who the Thomas J Beale of the job pamphlet was, or if he really existed outside of Ward's dime novel story, hence the Thomas Read Massacre by Sheriff Otey and the Luck family story you once claimed as the TRUE story behind the Beale Papers.
My comments were never posted to upset the delicate balance of lore, hearsay, maybe, could be misinformation some hold fast as fact.
Your friend, BUCKO
No one, not even you, Franklin, has ever posted definitive proof of anything in the Beale Papers as actually ever happening.
Maybe, could be, lore, and hearsay are not facts, but posted quotes by those who in one way or another were involved with the Beale story, be it Button, McVeigh, the Friedmans, Faucett, Mateer, or the researcher at the LIBRARY OF CONGRESS, are opinions based on fact, not maybe, could be, hearsay or lore.
You can not even definitively prove who the Thomas J Beale of the job pamphlet was, or if he really existed outside of Ward's dime novel story, hence the Thomas Read Massacre by Sheriff Otey and the Luck family story you once claimed as the TRUE story behind the Beale Papers.
My comments were never posted to upset the delicate balance of lore, hearsay, maybe, could be misinformation some hold fast as fact.
Your friend, BUCKO
franklin
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You consider anyone who posts information counter to the endless misinformation posted as fact on these Beale threads as negative.
No one, not even you, Franklin, has ever posted definitive proof of anything in the Beale Papers as actually ever happening.
Maybe, could be, lore, and hearsay are not facts, but posted quotes by those who in one way or another were involved with the Beale story, be it Button, McVeigh, the Friedmans, Faucett, Mateer, or the researcher at the LIBRARY OF CONGRESS, are opinions based on fact, not maybe, could be, hearsay or lore.
You can not even definitively prove who the Thomas J Beale of the job pamphlet was, or if he really existed outside of Ward's dime novel story, hence the Thomas Read Massacre by Sheriff Otey and the Luck family story you once claimed as the TRUE story behind the Beale Papers.
My comments were never posted to upset the delicate balance of lore, hearsay, maybe, could be misinformation some hold fast as fact.
Your friend, BUCKO
One last time. It is not my job to lay facts out there to prove or disprove whether the Beale Treasure is true or not. This is a forum to talk about ideas that may help to solve the mystery. You are contributing nothing but jumping on everyone wanting proof. If we had the proof we would have the treasure or we would know that the story is fiction. But after we solve all of this one way or the other you will still be ranting, "I want you to give me the facts" All I can say is screw you and your facts.
ECS
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- #236
I have contributed the history and background of those who were involved with or were named in the Beale story, the comments of professionals in various fields concerning the validity of the Beale story and the total lack of any evidence outside of the job pamphlet that can prove anything within the Beale narrative story ever occurred.
Your contributions seem to be all maybe, could be, hearsay lore and currently jumping on me because my information which CAN be verified by research doesn't support the posted lore that runs rampant on this thread.
Time would be better spent by those that dislike my posts to post one undeniable documented connection that can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the Beale story in Ward's published pamphlet is true...
...but it is much easier just to whine and complain about my posts.
franklin
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ECS
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...and that becomes very obvious when one scrutinizes several of your posts.
For example, you stated Lt Thomas Fawcett could not find Martha Rivers Adams article when he was in Lynchburg interviewing Adeline Ward McVeigh as detailed in his April 30, 1948 letter to Col William Friedman. Adams was still alive and living in Lynchburg in 1948, he could have contacted her or he could have went to NEWS & ADVANCE newspaper office and visited their "morgue". A professional researcher would do just that having knowledge of that article.
You stated that Pauline Innis was a distant cousin of George Hart of the HART PAPERS in an attempt to make a connection to the iron box with numbers covered torn slip of paper shown to her by an Otey family member. There is NO genealogy record to confirm this, and, to the best of my memory, there is No iron box mentioned in the HART PAPERS.
The Thomas Read (as Beale) Massacre by Sheriff Otey and the Luck family as the true story behind the Beale narrative in Ward's job pamphlet stands opposed to the Ebenezer Nelms killing George Radar Brugh to prevent him delivering the St Louis letter to Morriss, because if Read/Beale was killed, he did not go to St Louis and no letter was ever sent.
As for one last time- The Beale Papers are either TRUE as written, or are a work of fiction as Lt Thomas Fawcett claimed," spun from the imagination of Mr Ward".
Once one searches for the "story behind the Beale story" that is an acknowledgement that Ward's copyrighted and published 1885 Beale Papers is a work of fiction.
This a very simple basic premise and concept, and one you also agreed with.
"No documented proof at all......only the story in the Job Print Pamphlet"- Franklin, Jan 30, 2016,
From: Thread "CAPTAIN THOMAS J BEALL/BEALE TO NEW ORLEANS ON THE SMEYRNA 1916
Also from the same thread:
"The gold, Beale and his ten associates delivered to Bedford county was contained was contained in 30 gallon large salt brine pots from the salt works at Boone's Salt Mine near Franklin, Missouri...the gold was about 14k gold or about 60 percent content of gold. The silver a little more pure. It was smelted down into what it referred as sand box cast " Franklin, Jan 29,2016
AND:
"The gold bars were being transported in the false bottom of the wagons. The wagons came up on Big Otter Creek. The Beale Party had to unload the gold onto pack mules or horses to get the wagons across, then the gold bars were placed back into the false bottoms under the wagons". Franklin, Jan 30, 2016
If there is "No documented proof at all", what is the source of the above information you posted?
Is this, as Lt Thomas Fawcett remarked," spun from the imagination"?
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franklin
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At least I stated some ideas where as you have only complained for 5500 post. Get a life loser.
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