7 3/4 spear point real or no real???

[oldbattleaxe]

I am sure I will get an answer on this on the forum. Along with it was a very nice authentic celt.

 

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[oldbattleaxe]

the sister of the fellow it belonged to said that he lived and hiked California/Idaho area. Detecting for meteorites and gold past time. I have a few arrow heads and some other unusual items that he had. I agree with some of the others possible whaling or seal spear? Maybe a ceremonial spear? That would explain the large serrations. It's got the feel of real. I will find out in time.

 

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[oldbattleaxe]

The Smithsonian's opinion is it is likely an Alaskan Adze blade but has never seen one quite like it. The barbs use would be for sea animals, maybe seals? fish etc. He thinks it is a real relic? Most collectors that I have shown it to once in hand is very interested. I will be continuing my quest for one that is very similar and is identified. The Smithsonian said it is very possible an Alaskan Adz.

 

[surf]

The Smithsonian's opinion is it is likely an Alaskan Adze blade but has never seen one quite like it. The barbs use would be for sea animals, maybe seals? fish etc. He thinks it is a real relic? Most collectors that I have shown it to once in hand is very interested. I will be continuing my quest for one that is very similar and is identified. The Smithsonian said it is very possible an Alaskan Adz.

This is a mystifying statement, oldbattleaxe. Are we still talking about this object?

 

[huntsman53]

The Smithsonian's opinion is it is likely an Alaskan Adze blade but has never seen one quite like it. The barbs use would be for sea animals, maybe seals? fish etc. He thinks it is a real relic? Most collectors that I have shown it to once in hand is very interested. I will be continuing my quest for one that is very similar and is identified. The Smithsonian said it is very possible an Alaskan Adz.

Based on this information, then it is more likely that the point was made from impure Obsidian or impure Jadeite.


Frank

 

[cheese]

The Smithsonian's opinion is it is likely an Alaskan Adze blade but has never seen one quite like it. The barbs use would be for sea animals, maybe seals? fish etc. He thinks it is a real relic? Most collectors that I have shown it to once in hand is very interested. I will be continuing my quest for one that is very similar and is identified. The Smithsonian said it is very possible an Alaskan Adz.

Huh?? There is no way this is an adze. Either we're being strung along here, or the person you talked to was temp help or something and they have no idea what they're talking about.

The thing you posted a picture of 2 pages in on this thread... that could be called an adze. The "spear head" this thread is about is in no way an adze. Since you said the "barbs use would be for sea animals", you are obviously talking about the spear thing. Do you know what an adze is, how it is mounted, what it was used for, and how it was used? Have you looked at other eskimo/inuit adzes? If so, you can clearly see how this isn't one. It's like saying a weird looking wrench is probably a hacksaw.

 

[oldbattleaxe]

Shows how much I know about these things. Sorry again. I sent some of the same pics that are posted on this topic. One has the celt with the other item in question. The way he phrased it was sketchy and ran the sentences together. He must have meant the one was an adze and the other used in Alaska and should seek museums in Alaska for sea fish or seals. I will read his answer and post it complete. You all are correct. Lots of things going on my friends. Family probs and all.

 

[surf]

...The way he phrased it was sketchy and ran the sentences together...

Yeah, The Smithsonian, noted for their "sketchy"ness.

Speaking of run-ons;

He must have meant the one was an adze and the other used in Alaska and should seek museums in Alaska for sea fish or seals.

As it happens, The Smithsonian has partnered with the Anchorage Museum in an Arctic Studies Center.

I have a providence. It came out of California. A family member of the estate has the information. It is documented along with the celt...

Did you ever try to secure this "providence"? You were also going to have a "Monday" meeting...

I am meeting up with a very knowledgable collector and a archeologist on Monday. I will post what he says. Thanks

Bill,

I have no idea what you sent or asked "The Smithsonian," but apparently, either they were confused, or you were confused by their response. You started off asking if this strange looking object was "real, or no real" You've asserted it is "real." You've pointed to ancient Luristan bronze spear heads. Now, you've posted a garbled interpretation of a message having to do with an adze.

None of your responses, or assertions seem to bolster your case. If you sent these same photographs that you have posted here, I am sure that the recipient would have asked, "of what material is it made," at the very least. What was your response?

​

Toggling Harpoons ​

 

[oldbattleaxe]

Surf, The response from the Smithsonian was based on the picture of both stones. He said the one is definitely an authentic Adze. The other multi barbed item he said it looked very old but had no idea and never seen one but to try the Anchorage Museum since it looked like it would be used for seals, whales etc. He didn't help me much. Although I know that most of you are quite knowlegable on these types of items and could possibly be a fake, my gut feeling it is a real relic. Like I had said before, everyone that has had it in their hands so far loves it and feels the same way I do. To spend so much time to make something so out of the ordinary just doesn't make any sense. Why not spend the time on something can can be easily identified to make money? Thanks for all of your opinions. I am not disregarding all opinions.

 

[surf]

...To spend so much time to make something so out of the ordinary just doesn't make any sense. Why not spend the time on something can can be easily identified to make money?..

Hey oba,

I'm not following your logic on this. You cannot prove a negative. You bought it, right? You understood it to be a _________ when you purchased it, yes? Why have you not secured the documentation on this?

I've asked, at least twice, what material it is. Still no answer.

You've asked us the "real or no real" question, but are not responsive to questions pertaining to the object you are questioning. Why is that?

People have been making all sorts of fantastic things for ages, for all kinds of reasons. Other people, right on their heels, have been copying and "faking" similar fantastic objects.

I do believe this to be the first fantasy harpoon I've ever seen...

​

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Hey oba,

I'm not following your logic on this. You cannot prove a negative. You bought it, right? You understood it to be a _________ when you purchased it, yes? Why have you not secured the documentation on this?

I've asked, at least twice, what material it is. Still no answer.

You've asked us the "real or no real" question, but are not responsive to questions pertaining to the object you are questioning. Why is that?

People have been making all sorts of fantastic things for ages, for all kinds of reasons. Other people, right on their heels, have been copying and "faking" similar fantastic objects.

I do believe this to be the first fantasy harpoon I've ever seen...

View attachment 861436​

Nothing can be proven as authentic through just photos, only sometimes what is not authentic.

If you want to know if it is authentic you need to have it physically examined.......



Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[oldbattleaxe]

You are right. There is an archeology show in Columbus coming soon. A friend of mine says they are only there for 4 hours to show your stuff. I have moved on from here till I get to that show. I do respect and appreciate all of the opinions on this great forum. There still is another item that came from the same place as the large spear, celt, and arrow heads. It is an old wood bow. Probably not Indian? But is very old. Are there any knowledgable members about old wood bows?

 

[kuger]

You are right. There is an archeology show in Columbus coming soon. A friend of mine says they are only there for 4 hours to show your stuff. I have moved on from here till I get to that show. I do respect and appreciate all of the opinions on this great forum. There still is another item that came from the same place as the large spear, celt, and arrow heads. It is an old wood bow. Probably not Indian? But is very old. Are there any knowledgable members about old wood bows?

I have shot,made and collected bows for sometime...no expert though

 

[HutSiteDigger]

You are right. There is an archeology show in Columbus coming soon. A friend of mine says they are only there for 4 hours to show your stuff. I have moved on from here till I get to that show. I do respect and appreciate all of the opinions on this great forum. There still is another item that came from the same place as the large spear, celt, and arrow heads. It is an old wood bow. Probably not Indian? But is very old. Are there any knowledgable members about old wood bows?

Let us know what the archys think... Capture it on video w/ your i-phone for personal future reference.

 

[Thommy]

I am amazed about how they made the great pyramids. I leave no doubts that some object could have been used as a file to make contour in stone. I do feel that it might have been used by man but maybe not by an Indian and maybe for large sea fish or seals. The serrated edges tells me that it was used to stab and stay in place and not to be removed. There are no sharp edges anywhere. I am not an expert on relics like these but use common sense. I have been open for opinions and remain so until I identify this object. I do appreciate all opinions. I am trying to get to a anthropologist this week in Cleveland for his opinion. Thanks

Copper & Bronze tools were used in the building of the pyramids.

 

[lab rat]

There was a short period (2-3 years) of time in San Diego where the local indians traded for barrel hoops, and made the iron into knives. The indians might have had access to files as well, to shape a stone like this. The Chinese have been cutting stone with string for centuries, using sand and water to add grit as the string was pulled back and forth (using something like a bow). So the technology was there. That doesn't prove authenticity but ruling it out as a fake seems inappropriate.

 

[cheese]

Ever tried to cut stone with a file? It's a good way to ruin a good file. I don't know how hard the stone it's made of is, but it looks like a harder rock of the igneous class. Pretty sure the grooves were done by abrasion, not cutting, and with a masonry wheel.

 

[oldbattleaxe]

So far fellas you are probably right. Not getting too many positives about it. More just don't know and never seen one like it. Thanks, Bill

 

[BosnMate]

I'm with Kuger on this one. I've been hunting California artifacts, interested in California artifacts and gone to many different museums full
of California artifacts for over 60 years, and before that parts of my family moved to the San Luis Obispo area in 1867 and found and saved
many artifacts on their farm, some of which I inherited. I've got serrated points, but they are much smaller than your point, and unlike yours,
they are knapped. I have never even seen a photo of a point like yours. All that said, I've certainly been known to be wrong, and we also might
want to remember that the Spanish were in California, and this could somehow relate to that era, but without knowing where it was found, how
it was found, in what context it was found. The Chumash along the coast built large canoes and went after whales, but if the point was found in
the Sierra that's an entire different story. You can't say it was possibly used for hunting whales unless you know it was found along the coast.
If you can find an expert that knows the answer, please post it, I for one would like to know. I'm assuming it's made out of stone, but if I'm correct,
you don't know what kind of rock. I'm afraid without more information you are only going to get speculation.

 

[taz42o]

Very similar one here also said to be non authentic.
Try sticking a strong magnet to it ,I know it wont tell much but i wonder if its the same material as the one in this link and maybe made by the same person.

Artifact Forum | Arrowheads.com :: Topic: Very large Serrated Spear Point (1/1) | www.arrowheads.com

 

[oldbattleaxe]

I was told it might be soap stone. It is stone. I will rest it for now. It is put in my fantasy collection. I have spent many hours and no one has seen anything like it. I do appreciate all of the help.