7 3/4 spear point real or no real???

[oldbattleaxe]

I am sure I will get an answer on this on the forum. Along with it was a very nice authentic celt.

 

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[oldbattleaxe]

View attachment 847773

 

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[kuger]

If it is authentic it is not pre-historic and is after the invent of round files.It isnt knapped but serrations made by an abrasive type tool which I personally have never seen on a "Period",piece....I would venture to say it was for something along the lines as fish or some water mammal

 

[oldbattleaxe]

I am amazed about how they made the great pyramids. I leave no doubts that some object could have been used as a file to make contour in stone. I do feel that it might have been used by man but maybe not by an Indian and maybe for large sea fish or seals. The serrated edges tells me that it was used to stab and stay in place and not to be removed. There are no sharp edges anywhere. I am not an expert on relics like these but use common sense. I have been open for opinions and remain so until I identify this object. I do appreciate all opinions. I am trying to get to a anthropologist this week in Cleveland for his opinion. Thanks

 

[mcb66]

I can't imagine how this could be anything but a fantasy piece. But, maybe there is some obscure reference to something similar somewhere. Good luck.

 

[unclemac]

if it is a fantasy piece why go to all the trouble of faking the patina and imitating wear? this piece is either fake or out of our league here. best advice it take it to someone who may have more experience with California lithics.

 

[mcb66]

Fantasy piece was my polite way of saying fake. I agree though, this needs to go to a west coast expert for proper id.

 

[oldbattleaxe]

I know what fantasy piece means. Anything that is too good to be true is called that. When I get it in the hands of someone that knows about these I will post the results. Thanks

 

[oldbattleaxe]

I know what fantasy piece means. Anything that is too good to be true is called that. When I get it in the hands of someone that knows about these I will post the results. Like unclemac posted, why would anyone go through the time and trouble to replicate this unknown piece when they could have spent their time taking the same effort to make an 8" spear point which is easily identified and get more money. I am convinced this spear is authentic but when, where, and why. I do appreciate all input but common sense stuff. If you know about anything old you can see the smootheness age and that is always what the experts preach. Thanks

 

[cheese]

I know what fantasy piece means. Anything that is too good to be true is called that. When I get it in the hands of someone that knows about these I will post the results. Like unclemac posted, why would anyone go through the time and trouble to replicate this unknown piece when they could have spent their time taking the same effort to make an 8" spear point which is easily identified and get more money. I am convinced this spear is authentic but when, where, and why. I do appreciate all input but common sense stuff. If you know about anything old you can see the smootheness age and that is always what the experts preach. Thanks

Wear and patina are easily faked on an indian artifact. It is done so well sometimes that it takes inspection by a powerful microscope to tell, and even then it can be difficult. A well done faked patina can't be detected by the eye. If you're convinced it's authentic, why did you ask what we think? Your patina looks applied... like the fertilizer patinas they use (any sulfur/ammonia smell on it?). Funny how it is in the low spots and wiped off the high spots. Very telling, if you know about these things. Got a picture of that celt? Does it have the same "patina"?

 

[oldbattleaxe]

I suppose you probably have not ever seen one of these either? I haven't. It is a real stone spear point. I stated many times that I appreciate the forums opinions and almost everything I have put on this forum has been resolved here. I personally feel this is not a fake piece and when I find out from an archeologist that I am supposed to take this item to I will post his opinion. The celt will be posted along with some of the other arrowheads he has. Thanks for your opinion as well as the others. Bill

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

High powered microscope is only way to be sure, recreating patina has become an art form using acid washes....

I have seen fakes you could not tell were fakes till examined under a microscope..


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[kuger]

I suppose you probably have not ever seen one of these either? I haven't. It is a real stone spear point. I stated many times that I appreciate the forums opinions and almost everything I have put on this forum has been resolved here. I personally feel this is not a fake piece and when I find out from an archeologist that I am supposed to take this item to I will post his opinion. The celt will be posted along with some of the other arrowheads he has. Thanks for your opinion as well as the others. Bill

are you sure that is stone??If you know anything about flint knapping and period pieces that doesnt fit......that piece sure looks metal to me......

I anxiously await what you find on your piece but I am about positive its a fake,as said it has become an art in itself,and too many things with your piece just do not jive....especially a California piece

 

[surf]

I suppose you probably have not ever seen one of these either? I haven't. It is a real stone spear point...

Uh, Bill,

The example you just showed is not stone. It's bronze, from the Land of the Lurs, in present day Iran. I do not know what makes you think that example, from another culture, on the other side of the world, supports your argument.

I, and others, have asked you what material your piece is made from, but answers have not been forthcoming.

Quality Large Ancient Luristan Barbed Spear Head C. 1000 Bc​

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

I suppose you probably have not ever seen one of these either? I haven't. It is a real stone spear point. I stated many times that I appreciate the forums opinions and almost everything I have put on this forum has been resolved here. I personally feel this is not a fake piece and when I find out from an archeologist that I am supposed to take this item to I will post his opinion. The celt will be posted along with some of the other arrowheads he has. Thanks for your opinion as well as the others. Bill

Why are you posting bronze spear as example. Here is the listing for identical of your example.

Circa 1,200-800 BC A cast bronze spearhead with lanceolate blade and thick central rib, spiked extensions to the lower edges; two pairs of recurved spikes to each side and thick bar below; the tang conical and sturdy. Bronze, 765 grams, 32 cm (12 1/2") Property of a London Gentleman; acquired before 1985.

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/10925491_near-eastern-bronze-luristan-multi-barbed-spearhead



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[oldbattleaxe]

What happened with the example above was from me googling stone spear points. I thought it was stone. My apology's. I agree with all of you that anything can be made to look old. With my lifetime experience of collecting artifacts it gives me some knowledge or sense to decide to pursue this as a possible original relic or just put is to the side and go on. If any of you know a reputable expert in Ohio to have a hands on look at it please let me know. I agree that pics are not as good as in the hands to look at. I don't think any of us would not buy this for the sake of curiosity I did.

 

[cheese]

Part of what is so wrong about it is that it's mimicking knapped points. It has been made in the shape of knapped points, with notches like a knapped point, serrations like a knapped point, but it's not a knapped point... it's ground. A ground point doesn't mimic a knapped point. Another thing is the notches are not ground smooth on the edges to keep it from cutting the hafting material. The patina is only in the low spots, the point matches no known type, the serrations appear to be made by a masonry wheel, and the stone is thin and flat. Even back then, natives knew the value of the median ridge for strength, although they didn't always utilize it. Most of the ground points that I've seen that may be real have a diamond shaped cross section with a defined median ridge. It just doesn't fit no matter which angle you look at it from.

I'm not an expert in my opinion, but it depends on who you ask. I've studied and collected for 25 years, worked with the local university, do a yearly presentation at a nearby school as a local expert, and I co-founded the area's archaeological society (now defunct). I don't know what that's worth, it's not intended to mean anything... just giving you an idea of my familiarity with Native American artifacts. I have also been wrong before. I'm sure it will happen again someday and then I can say I've been wrong twice .

 

[HutSiteDigger]

Maybe a 1800s game spear... Fish - Animal - Bigfoot.. who knows.

 

[oldbattleaxe]

I can respect your opinion Cheese. You make a good point and sound like you have knowledge as said, 25 years and working with a university. I am just saying and thinking why would anyone go through the trouble and time to make this item look like this? It does have the patina. I have very little knowledge about Indian artifacts. I have quite a bit of knowledge on early Rev and Civil War relics, collecting for over 27 years. I am meeting up with a very knowledgable collector and a archeologist on Monday. I will post what he says. Thanks

 

[huntsman53]

Could it be a fishing, whaling or seal hunting spearhead made of bone that has fossilized?


Frank

 

[cheese]

huntsman53, I agree that if this were somehow real, it would probably be used in/near water. Instead of an Indian arrowhead, it more reminds me of something Inuit/Eskimo. It's still wrong for that, but it more closely resembles that sort of thing to me.