60 Minutes Benghazi "Witness" Wasnt There During the Attack

[UncleMatt]

I posted an opinion, but I wasn't seeking to rehash every detail your side wants to fixate on.

Trying to hold Presidents accountable for what terrorists engage in is simply not valid in my opinion. Whether we are discussing Reagan or Obama. One standard for all. I don't blame GW for 9/11 like some left wing loons have tried to do, and by the same token I don't hold Obama accountable for Benghazi, like some right wing loons have tried to do. I place more emphasis on reality than the need some people have to try to twist reality to their political ends.

 

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[pippinwhitepaws]

OMG...a rational post in second amendment?

 

[Dave44]

Dave, I disagree with your position on Benghazi, in just about every way possible. Lets just leave it at that, shall we?

Well , was that your attempt at "leaving it at that"? Did you invite another response?

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Dave, tell me where I've got this wrong.

The tea party lost the Va's gov race. A race it should have easily won. Polls show the public is fed up with the Tea Party's tactics of non governance. The govt shutdown did more damage to the tea party. That every tea party congressman voted against refunding the government, even though it would have cause catastrophic damage to the Untied States they lost even more ground. Most Americans can see clearly that the tea party movement isn't about governing. It's about obstructing government. That stand cost them the Va's gov race.

That the tea party is a faction of the republican party helps democrats. There are two republican parties right now. The established party and the new tea party- conservative party. There is a fight for control from within. This is no different than NASCAR. When two cars are racing side by side, it slows them down. The dems love watching the race knowing the longer it goes on the more ground they gain.

The shame of it is the tea party is a good idea. it's values, it's ideals, it's platform - More local government, less big government, reduced spending autonomy etc. On paper and in local stump speeches it plays great. It is very close to what our founding fathers envisioned. But that's where the feel good ends. Once elected, the tea partiers are lost. Government is about compromise. ( just like marriage) But these people won't compromise. It is their way or no way. Rather than creating good government, they stand in the way of good government. The tea party is a good idea poorly executed.

The recent debt ceiling fight is a good example. Who here disagrees with paying their bills? Would anyone here pay for a meal at restaurant with credit card and then stiff the credit card company by refusing to pay? Of course, we would never do that. We are an honest people. Proud to work hard and pay our own way. Yet, the debt ceiling fight was about paying our bills. Bills already created. Just like that restaurant tab. Yet, the Tea party members of congress voted against paying that tab. ( which is ironic in that those same congressman voted to reduce food stamps saying people have to learn to pay their own way) The country is fed up with that kind of leadership. or, non leadership. The country doesn't want deadbeat leaders. or those who believe it's OK not to pay.

The bottom line is that the Tea Party on paper and the tea party in practice are two very different things. Which brings us to 2016. Survey says, right now, tea party would get less than 25% of the vote in a national election. So while you can exercise your right for contrast, and vote for someone like tea party favorite Rand Paul, doing so will relegate you to the loser's bracket. More importantly it will give the dems another 4 years (at least) in the White House. For voters like yourself, you need to decide what is more important. Voting on principle or voting for results.

2016 is still a long ways away. But as it stacks up now - Christie is the repubs best chance to put a republican in the White House. He is a mainstream get it done kind of guy. Someone who can work with both parties. Demographically he is a winner.

NF, I was talking about the Governor race in NJ, sorry I missed the fact you said Vig.

Sorry, I am a man of principle, I will not support Christie, he is not a conservative, he is really a liberal and has shown so many times in his actions. Just look at the gun laws he has supported.....

Does this ring a bell "if you like your insurance you can keep your insurance........if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor." How many votes do you think that lie is going to cost the Dem. Millions have already lost their insurance, millions more will lose them in 2014...?

It figures a Dem would ask what is more important principles or winning the race....

We will NOT go quitely into the night!

 

[Native Floridian]

TH, Christie is a man of principle as well. You two have that in common. How about that huh? common ground!

What Christie has done is called compromise. It how this country has been run from day one. It is the only way it could run in the past and will be the only way it will be able to run in the future. There are too many competing interests and beliefs for it to be run any other way.

Your posts and that of many of the like thinkers here epitomise the ideals of the Tea Party. That is zero tolerance for any solutions that embody compromise. There is no room for the beliefs of others within the Tea Party's narrow doctrine. That might work on some small island someplace, but it's never going to work in a place the size of the United States. meanwhile, the stiff arm "our way or the highway" tactics of the tea party hurt us all. For example, had the tea party succeeded in forcing a default there is very good chance that right now you would be out of a job. Certainly, you'd be out of a job by the new year. So, while principles are something to be admired, you can't heat your house with them. Or feed your family. And, while you might be OK with that, the tea partiers giving us some tough love, i assure you that the 10s of millions of other people put out of job would not be Ok with it. And, BTW, the people responsible for creating the mess? They'd still have a job. They'd still make their $174,900. And, because they are privileged, they'd eat just fine.

It you think that wouldn't be the result of the tea party forcing a default -how did you put that? Oh yeah, i've got some beach front property in Arizona to sell you. ( that default would result in a collapse of the U.S. economy is almost an automatic. As an example - a default would mean no FDIC guarantee on deposits. Without the backing of the FDIC the banking system would collapse in a few days. From there the real fun begins! it gets much worse very quickly. With no banking system your employer has no way to get paid or pay you. TH how long you gonna work without pay? Good thing you've got guns because you would probably need them. That's the future your tea party reps have lined up for you. That's the no compromise future. )

So compromise is an important part of how our country works. The best way forward is to find representatives who, while not our ideal, will best move the country in the direction we want it to go. In that light you have to ask yourself who would you rather see as president? An imperfect republican, or another democrat?

 

[njal]

He's just warming up with his rants!
Give him time and you'll see him really go over the top! hahaha!

You started wrong right here NF. I don't need to read further.
"Dave, tell me where I've got this wrong.

The tea party lost the Va's gov race. A race it should have easily won. Polls show the public is fed up with the Tea Party's tactics of non governance. The govt shutdown did more damage to the tea party. That every tea party congressman voted against refunding the government, even though it would have cause catastrophic damage to the Untied States they lost even more ground. Most Americans can see clearly that the tea party movement isn't about governing. It's about obstructing government. That stand cost them the Va's gov race."

You are reading the wrong propaganda. It must sound good to you and affirm your beliefs but it has no reality attached to it. "Against refunding the government"? What are you talking about? Every single Republican and every single conservative were for entirely funding the government, Minus Ocare.

Really,, the rest of the rant isn't necessary and makes me tired.

 

[Dave44]

Your propaganda runs deep NF. But it still has no basis in facts. I know you keep forgetting (conveniently) because it doesn't promote your side very well.

Didn't the Dems in the Senate squash an effort to work out a compromise with the House instead of letting the government "shutdown"? Why yes they did! How do you ever come to terms with yourself? And does that make the Dems, who are vehemently against compromising with anyone, a member of the Tea Party?

One of the things you love the absolute most is BOs rhetoric about how it is his way or the highway, yet you say it is the Tea Party doing it. I wish we could see the wheel in your head! Or maybe we could get the talking points directly from the source,, if you gave that to us.

 

[njal]

Bust loose with a donation already!

What's it been two years now you've been ranting on here?
I know the sun ,moon, wind and cell phones are free
but something's just need to be paid for!
Sell a bond or two and pony up already!

TH, Christie is a man of principle as well. You two have that in common. How about that huh? common ground!

What Christie has done is called compromise. It how this country has been run from day one. It is the only way it could run in the past and will be the only way it will be able to run in the future. There are too many competing interests and beliefs for it to be run any other way.

Your posts and that of many of the like thinkers here epitomise the ideals of the Tea Party. That is zero tolerance for any solutions that embody compromise. There is no room for the beliefs of others within the Tea Party's narrow doctrine. That might work on some small island someplace, but it's never going to work in a place the size of the United States. meanwhile, the stiff arm "our way or the highway" tactics of the tea party hurt us all. For example, had the tea party succeeded in forcing a default there is very good chance that right now you would be out of a job. Certainly, you'd be out of a job by the new year. So, while principles are something to be admired, you can't heat your house with them. Or feed your family. And, while you might be OK with that, the tea partiers giving us some tough love, i assure you that the 10s of millions of other people put out of job would not be Ok with it. And, BTW, the people responsible for creating the mess? They'd still have a job. They'd still make their $174,900. And, because they are privileged, they'd eat just fine.

It you think that wouldn't be the result of the tea party forcing a default -how did you put that? Oh yeah, i've got some beach front property in Arizona to sell you. ( that default would result in a collapse of the U.S. economy is almost an automatic. As an example - a default would mean no FDIC guarantee on deposits. Without the backing of the FDIC the banking system would collapse in a few days. From there the real fun begins! it gets much worse very quickly. With no banking system your employer has no way to get paid or pay you. TH how long you gonna work without pay? Good thing you've got guns because you would probably need them. That's the future your tea party reps have lined up for you. That's the no compromise future. )

So compromise is an important part of how our country works. The best way forward is to find representatives who, while not our ideal, will best move the country in the direction we want it to go. In that light you have to ask yourself who would you rather see as president? An imperfect republican, or another democrat?

 

[Native Floridian]

NJAL, anytime you want to compare donations I'm up for that. BTW, would you like to hunt together. WE've never met. Maybe some face time would help us hate less. Or, there would be headlines "Two old *******s Club each other to death in Jersey Surf! Snookie not involved!!!" HAHAHA!!!! Seriously, i'm hung up in jersey until after the new year, so let me know.

As for donating here? How is making a payment to a for profit company a donation? The ownership of this website is a for profit company. They are doing quite well in paying the bills with advertising dollars. Which i do help them with, as the most likely pay formula is based on key strokes and views. So just coming on here and cruising around helps them quite nicely! The current owners bought the website based on ad revenue, not donations. If they were a non profit, i'd donate to them in a heartbeat. Truthfully, i don't see any reason to donate.

 

[Native Floridian]

Your propaganda runs deep NF. But it still has no basis in facts. I know you keep forgetting (conveniently) because it doesn't promote your side very well.

Didn't the Dems in the Senate squash an effort to work out a compromise with the House instead of letting the government "shutdown"? Why yes they did! How do you ever come to terms with yourself? And does that make the Dems, who are vehemently against compromising with anyone, a member of the Tea Party?

One of the things you love the absolute most is BOs rhetoric about how it is his way or the highway, yet you say it is the Tea Party doing it. I wish we could see the wheel in your head! Or maybe we could get the talking points directly from the source,, if you gave that to us.

Dave is it possible for you to make a point without the personal attacks?

As for my point - every tea party member voted against the debt ceiling increase. Thus no compromise! read what I posted as the would be outcome had their no vote succeeded. That's where the tea party wants to take us. Do you want to go there?

 

[Dave44]

Dave is it possible for you to make a point without the personal attacks?

As for my point - every tea party member voted against the debt ceiling increase. Thus no compromise! read what I posted as the would be outcome had their no vote succeeded. That's where the tea party wants to take us. Do you want to go there?

Possibly I could do that,, But your condescending attitude, in red, makes it hard to do. So.. I guess you are saying that there is nothing we can do. We just ride the never ending Debt Ceiling increases until total collapse. Because it is imminent if someone doesn't learn to add and subtract up there.

So, You say it is bad to pull the purse away from the spoiled brat. The parents say they don't have the money to keep engaging in destructive behavior. Looks like it will happen either way to me. The question is, do you control the collapse,, or does the collapse control you.

 

[Native Floridian]

Possibly I could do that,, But your condescending attitude, in red, makes it hard to do. So.. I guess you are saying that there is nothing we can do. We just ride the never ending Debt Ceiling increases until total collapse. Because it is imminent if someone doesn't learn to add and subtract up there.

So, You say it is bad to pull the purse away from the spoiled brat. The parents say they don't have the money to keep engaging in destructive behavior. Looks like it will happen either way to me. The question is, do you control the collapse,, or does the collapse control you.

Dave, sincerely, I'm not being condescending in my comments. However, I can't help what you read into them.

The debt ceiling increase was about paying the tab for bills congress had already incurred. Nothing more. It's not about opening the purse. its about paying for yesterday's credit card purchases.

Of course what needs to be done is for the natl debt to be lowered. That is done by way of lowering our spending. Obama delivered on his promise to lower the deficit by this year. He cut it in half. That's significant. And, though you don't like it, and don't want to hear it, O going after health care reform is about lowering our national debt. The cost of taking care of our people is the single biggest financial threat this country faces going forward. It was the responsible thing to do.

As an individual, if you were sinking further into debt you would look at the reasons why and make the necessary changes to get back on a solid financial footing. You would plug the hole, so to speak. That's what is going on now with health care reform. It's a painful piece of legislation. But a necessary one. We will all pay for healthcare one way or another.

Looking back at how we got here - the tea party points at wasteful spending by obama. They demonize him with their hate. Yet obama is not why we are here. Two wars, and an economic collapse are the main reasons we are here. Add in an ill timed tax cut that has finally been reversed and you have the makings for record deficits and a mountain of national debt.

The economy will eventually bail us out. But not without good leadership. And that's where I and the tea party part in our ways. They are for burning it down. Would you do that personally? Just stop paying for everything? That's not the road to a healthy future. That's would cause a collapse. And, in my opinion, no collapse is controllable.

The economy will eventually bail us out, if given a chance. And a congress that works with a president instead of being a rock in the road. That probably won't happen under obama. The xright hates him too much. And, we need time to rotate the current crop to the unemployment line. Which, like it or not, to run for congress in this country takes big bucks. And the big bucks people just saw their financial lives pass before their eyes. They've had enough. Michigan just ousted their tea party guy. The list will grow.

 

[Dave44]

Dave, sincerely, I'm not being condescending in my comments. However, I can't help what you read into them.

The debt ceiling increase was about paying the tab for bills congress had already incurred. Nothing more. It's not about opening the purse. its about paying for yesterday's credit card purchases.

Of course what needs to be done is for the natl debt to be lowered. That is done by way of lowering our spending. Obama delivered on his promise to lower the deficit by this year. He cut it in half. That's significant. And, though you don't like it, and don't want to hear it, O going after health care reform is about lowering our national debt. The cost of taking care of our people is the single biggest financial threat this country faces going forward. It was the responsible thing to do.

As an individual, if you were sinking further into debt you would look at the reasons why and make the necessary changes to get back on a solid financial footing. You would plug the hole, so to speak. That's what is going on now with health care reform. It's a painful piece of legislation. But a necessary one. We will all pay for healthcare one way or another.

Looking back at how we got here - the tea party points at wasteful spending by obama. They demonize him with their hate. Yet obama is not why we are here. Two wars, and an economic collapse are the main reasons we are here. Add in an ill timed tax cut that has finally been reversed and you have the makings for record deficits and a mountain of national debt.

The economy will eventually bail us out. But not without good leadership. And that's where I and the tea party part in our ways. They are for burning it down. Would you do that personally? Just stop paying for everything? That's not the road to a healthy future. That's would cause a collapse. And, in my opinion, no collapse is controllable.

The economy will eventually bail us out, if given a chance. And a congress that works with a president instead of being a rock in the road. That probably won't happen under obama. The xright hates him too much. And, we need time to rotate the current crop to the unemployment line. Which, like it or not, to run for congress in this country takes big bucks. And the big bucks people just saw their financial lives pass before their eyes. They've had enough. Michigan just ousted their tea party guy. The list will grow.

Wrong again. But please, believe anything you want.
I don't have the time to explain the things that you should already know about. All I can say is you should find a different site that the one you are currently using for your "educational" tirades.

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

how strange...same people whining about Benghazi stood back silent about Tonkin gulf, Iraq, screamed invade Syria, iran, north korea...
can anyone spell hypocrisy? or even better...understand the meaning of the word?

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

NF, I am not a member of the Tea Party nor have I donated any money towards them, I do however believe in many of the same ideas though, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, fiscal responsibility, no amnesty for illegal aliens, No socialized medicine, elected officials actually doing what they were elected to do.

I will not sell out my principles....


We will NOT go quitely into the night!

 

[onfire]

how strange...same people whining about Benghazi stood back silent about Tonkin gulf, Iraq, screamed invade Syria, iran, north korea...
can anyone spell hypocrisy? or even better...understand the meaning of the word?

Tonkin gulf, Could it have been a Dem who started that one? a lot of compromise there .You think?

 

[Native Floridian]

How would voting for an electable candidate over a non electable candidate be selling out? All candidates are compromises. Wouldn't voting for an electable candidate who, while not your ideal, moves you closer to your ideal, be the better choice?

The non electable guy is a non starter. he makes a lot of noise for a few months and drifts off into oblivian after he loses. Nothing gets done to move you closer to your ideals. it is a wasted vote.

I don't see voting for an imperfect fit with my ideals as selling out. I look for the most electable on the national level. Which imperfect choice gets me closer. or closest.

And here's a head up about Christie since he's who we are talking about - the national gun control movement after the Conn shootings would have been DOA under Christie. Working with a repub congress there no way any of the gun control legislation would have gained any traction. The NRA could have cut it's lobbying budget by 3/4. Looking at what happened in NJ would be a very wrong take on how the gov feels on the subject. The guy is a realist. he knows when to hold them and when to fold them. Part of his being a doer, not a rock in the road.

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

nope..no room for compromise...isn't that the republican position...
yes...a democrat was in office...an unelected one at that...yet...not one bit on sniveling from those who made billions in the process...

guess it is only good if the spoilers make huge profits.

 

[Dave44]

How would voting for an electable candidate over a non electable candidate be selling out? All candidates are compromises. Wouldn't voting for an electable candidate who, while not your ideal, moves you closer to your ideal, be the better choice?

The non electable guy is a non starter. he makes a lot of noise for a few months and drifts off into oblivian after he loses. Nothing gets done to move you closer to your ideals. it is a wasted vote.

I don't see voting for an imperfect fit with my ideals as selling out. I look for the most electable on the national level. Which imperfect choice gets me closer. or closest.

And here's a head up about Christie since he's who we are talking about - the national gun control movement after the Conn shootings would have been DOA under Christie. Working with a repub congress there no way any of the gun control legislation would have gained any traction. The NRA could have cut it's lobbying budget by 3/4. Looking at what happened in NJ would be a very wrong take on how the gov feels on the subject. The guy is realist. he knows when to hold them and when to fold them. Part of his being a doer, not a rock in the road.

We tried non electable but loved by the left 2 times.. you guys are like Lucy. Put the ball out there and pull it away. The end result is creeping socialism.

I really don't know why YOU care anyway? After the election there would be millions of misplaced ballots found by Pelosi and Reid if the kankle lost.

 

[UncleMatt]

Well , was that your attempt at "leaving it at that"? Did you invite another response?

"Leave it at that" is pretty clear...