17 Tons of gold in New Mexico
- Thread starter Roadquest
- Start date
Peerless67
Hero Member
Clayton I do not believe the gold made it to California, well not all of it ayway. But I am looking for gold being offered for sale by a Californian group.
I believe my site was probably the hiding place for the gold being offered by the group for sale in the 50s, but I am still not certain exactly where they aquired it.
Gary
I believe my site was probably the hiding place for the gold being offered by the group for sale in the 50s, but I am still not certain exactly where they aquired it.
Gary
gollum
Gold Member
- Jan 2, 2006
- 6,770
- 7,724
- Detector(s) used
- Minelab SD2200D (Modded)/ Whites GMT 24k / Fisher FX-3 / Fisher Gold Bug II / Fisher Gemini / Schiebel MIMID / Falcon MD-20
- Primary Interest:
- All Treasure Hunting
Roadquest said:Micheal Chapala is selling real estate also. Says he will cut you
a great deal on land. And you don't even need to see.
Clayton
Yeah, something about the Brooklyn Bridge..
Best-Mike
OP
OP
Roadquest
Bronze Member
- Oct 13, 2005
- 1,778
- 95
- Primary Interest:
- All Treasure Hunting
- Thread starter
- #564
OK Gary, I think I get the grits of what you are saying. An escrow account was set up at the First National Bank,
where Klepper was Vice President, and escrow officer of that bank.
When the gold was not delivered to the San Francisco mint on two occasions. The Treasury dept. and the Secret
Service began the grand jury hearings.
Isadore M. Nobel, Bruce Clews, Martin A. Hougen and Bernard G. Klepper were subpoenaed.
Am I right that the hearings were abruptly stopped, and no reason was giving for that.
Clayton
where Klepper was Vice President, and escrow officer of that bank.
When the gold was not delivered to the San Francisco mint on two occasions. The Treasury dept. and the Secret
Service began the grand jury hearings.
Isadore M. Nobel, Bruce Clews, Martin A. Hougen and Bernard G. Klepper were subpoenaed.
Am I right that the hearings were abruptly stopped, and no reason was giving for that.
Clayton
Peerless67
Hero Member
Clayton, Grand Jury hearings are a kind of pre trial, to determine if there is a case to be answered.
During the hearing if enough evidence is gathered and the Grand Jury believe there is a case to be answered, then indictments may be issued.
During the 1952 hearings a total of 4 days evidence was heard, and obviously the Grand Jury never felt there was compeling enough evidence to take the case to trial.
Grand Jury hearings are pretty secretive, if no indictments are issued then obviously there is no case to answer, and also no guilty party (in the eyes of the law). Therefor they are under no obligation to give reasons for any decission they make or to give the names of anyone in attendence (unless indictments are issued)
And as we know there was no court case following the Grand Jury hearing, so no one was guilty of any crime, well at least one that could be proved.
If indictments would have been issued then they would have made the information public knowledge.
A 4 day Grand Jury is not so abrupt, sometimes they last less than a day and sometimes much much longer.
So what does that tell you about the evidence that was presented during the 4 days ?.
Gary
During the hearing if enough evidence is gathered and the Grand Jury believe there is a case to be answered, then indictments may be issued.
During the 1952 hearings a total of 4 days evidence was heard, and obviously the Grand Jury never felt there was compeling enough evidence to take the case to trial.
Grand Jury hearings are pretty secretive, if no indictments are issued then obviously there is no case to answer, and also no guilty party (in the eyes of the law). Therefor they are under no obligation to give reasons for any decission they make or to give the names of anyone in attendence (unless indictments are issued)
And as we know there was no court case following the Grand Jury hearing, so no one was guilty of any crime, well at least one that could be proved.
If indictments would have been issued then they would have made the information public knowledge.
A 4 day Grand Jury is not so abrupt, sometimes they last less than a day and sometimes much much longer.
So what does that tell you about the evidence that was presented during the 4 days ?.
GaryPeerless, Thank you for the FACTS, wonderful research I'm sure everyone has to agree. Now, the gold never was delivered to the mint, the question is; Who are the keepers of the secret? And the greater reality being if this gold was never lost and is still under someones control, how could anyone have the right to acquire it? If this being the case, you have thus solved the mystery, YOU HAVE FOUND THE GOLD! Model T
Peerless67
Hero Member
Model T, I have never claimed to have found the gold, only the land the group leased where I believe they stored it. I have no idea if it is or was there, just my own belief.
As for the gold being lost, I would say not lost, just left behind after the death of Hougen in 68. Remember also there is a chance he moved it between 1952 and his death in 1968.
I only listed the facts to show the Californian link, there is no evidence of any Mexican link, except that Holmdahl was questioned in relation to Villas treasure.
I just dont see no link to any 4 corners/ 17 tons story
Gary
As for the gold being lost, I would say not lost, just left behind after the death of Hougen in 68. Remember also there is a chance he moved it between 1952 and his death in 1968.
I only listed the facts to show the Californian link, there is no evidence of any Mexican link, except that Holmdahl was questioned in relation to Villas treasure.
I just dont see no link to any 4 corners/ 17 tons story
Gary
Old Dog
Gold Member
Peerless67 said:Model T, I have never claimed to have found the gold, only the land the group leased where I believe they stored it. I have no idea if it is or was there, just my own belief.
As for the gold being lost, I would say not lost, just left behind after the death of Hougen in 68. Remember also there is a chance he moved it between 1952 and his death in 1968.
I only listed the facts to show the Californian link, there is no evidence of any Mexican link, except that Holmdahl was questioned in relation to Villas treasure.
I just dont see no link to any 4 corners/ 17 tons story
Gary and Clayton,
I think we are maybe looking at two separate caches.
Much conflicting information that would lead me to believe there were two separate outfits working here.
I may be wrong ...
but that's my pair of Wheaties worth.
Peerless67
Hero Member
Thom, I have always believed there was a good chance that the 1950s $20,000,000 could be completely unconnected to the 4 corners/17 tons story.
Gary
Gary
Old Dog
Gold Member
Peerless67 said:Thom, I have always believed there was a good chance that the 1950s $20,000,000 could be completely unconnected to the 4 corners/17 tons story.
Gary,
after the research you have done,
it's about time for some boots on the ground.
Let me know what you find out, I am locked in and paying attention. LOL
I would be surprised if the ball doesn't start rolling pretty quickly once you start seriously looking into this.
Watch your back my friend.
Thom
Peerless67
Hero Member
Thom, I will keep you posted. I am waiting on a surgery and hope to get back out there after I have recouped. 
Gary
Gary
OP
OP
Roadquest
Bronze Member
- Oct 13, 2005
- 1,778
- 95
- Primary Interest:
- All Treasure Hunting
- Thread starter
- #572
Old Dog said:Peerless67 said:Model T, I have never claimed to have found the gold, only the land the group leased where I believe they stored it. I have no idea if it is or was there, just my own belief.
As for the gold being lost, I would say not lost, just left behind after the death of Hougen in 68. Remember also there is a chance he moved it between 1952 and his death in 1968.
I only listed the facts to show the Californian link, there is no evidence of any Mexican link, except that Holmdahl was questioned in relation to Villas treasure.
I just dont see no link to any 4 corners/ 17 tons story
Gary and Clayton,
I think we are maybe looking at two separate caches.
Much conflicting information that would lead me to believe there were two separate outfits working here.
I may be wrong ...
but that's my pair of Wheaties worth.
Thom, I agree. I have said that before. BUT, it is involved.
On the other side of this thing. I'm glad that Gary has a differant take on this than I do.
Better the odds, of one of us finding something.
Clayton
I have been following this very closely but I may have missed something. Why were there grand jury hearings?, what was the suspected crime?, who was bringing the charges? and once again what was the crime that was suspected? was it simply the possession of the gold?, the attempt to sell the gold?. If it was simply the possession and attempted sale of the gold wouldn't that be a federal case? just how and why did the state and local governments get involved?
Thanks,Bill
Thanks,Bill
Peerless67
Hero Member
Bill, it was a federal grand jury
The Grand jury hearing was held to establish wether or not there was a case to prosecute in a court.
The Grand Jury was held as a result of George Luckey contacting the secret service and treasury, as advised by Prentiss Moore after their meeting with Clews. Moore believed they could be breaking United States law.
The gold act was in place so there were several laws that would have been broken.
Gary
The Grand jury hearing was held to establish wether or not there was a case to prosecute in a court.
The Grand Jury was held as a result of George Luckey contacting the secret service and treasury, as advised by Prentiss Moore after their meeting with Clews. Moore believed they could be breaking United States law.
The gold act was in place so there were several laws that would have been broken.
GaryPeerless67
Hero Member
Bill, Prentiss Moore and George Luckey were friends of the President (Truman), Luckey was more than just a good citizen, he was a democratic party leader, it was widely believed it was Luckey who helped Truman take California. As far as we know he contacted them after taking advice from Moore about possible violations.
Gary
GaryPeerless67
Hero Member
Bill, the attorney Prentiss Moore was a guy, he was a partner in a law office in LA, he later became a judge.
His friend Luckey later turned down 2 job offers from the president, minister of agriculture and the Mexican ambassadorship
His friend Luckey later turned down 2 job offers from the president, minister of agriculture and the Mexican ambassadorship
Peerless67
Hero Member
BY VIRTUE Of the authority vested in me by Section 5 (b) of the Act of October 6, 1917, as amended by Section 2 of the Act of March 9, 1933, entitled "An Act to provide relief in the existing national emergency in banking, and for other purposes," in which amendatory Act Congress declared that a serious emergency exists, I, Franklin D. Roosevelt, President of the United States of America, do declare that said national emergency still continues to exist and pursuant to said section do hereby prohibit the hoarding of gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates within the continental United States by individuals, partnerships, associations and corporations and hereby prescribe the following regulations for carrying out the purposes of this order:Section 1. For the purposes of this regulation, the term "hoarding" means the withdrawal and withholding of gold coin, gold bullion or gold certificates from the recognized and customary channels of trade. The term "person" means any individual, partnership, association or corporation.Section 2. All persons are hereby required to deliver on or before May 1, 1933, to a Federal Reserve Bank or a branch or agency thereof or to any member bank of the Federal Reserve System all gold coin, gold bullion and gold certificates now owned by them or coming into their ownership on or before April 28, 1933, except the following
a) Such amount of gold as may be required for legitimate and customary use in industry, profession or art within a reasonable time, including gold prior to refining and stocks of gold in reasonable amounts for the usual trade requirements of owners mining and refining such gold.(b) Gold coin and gold certificates in an amount not exceeding in the aggregate $100 belonging to any one person; and gold coins having a recognized special value to collectors. of rare and unusual coins.(c) Gold coin and bullion earmarked or held in trust for a recognized foreign Government or foreign central bank or the Bank for International Settlements.(d) Gold coin and bullion licensed for other proper transactions (not involving hoarding) including gold coin and bullion imported for reexport or held pending action on applications for export licenses.Section 3. Until otherwise ordered any person becoming the owner of any gold coin, gold bullion, or gold certificates after April 28, 1933, shall, within three days after receipt thereof, deliver the same in the manner prescribed in Section 2; unless such gold coin, gold bullion or gold certificates are held for any of the purposes specified in paragraphs (a), (b), or (c) of Section 2; or unless such gold coin or gold bullion is held for purposes specified in paragraph (d) of Section 2 and the person holding it is, with respect to such gold coin or bullion, a licensee or applicant for license pending action thereon.Section 4. Upon receipt of gold coin, gold bullion or gold certificates delivered to it in accordance with Sections 2 or 3, the Federal Reserve Bank or member bank will pay therefor an equivalent amount of any other form of coin or currency coined or issued under the laws of the United States.Section 5. Member banks shall deliver all gold coin, gold bullion and gold certificates owned or received by them (other than as exempted under the provisions of Section 2) to the Federal Reserve Banks of their respective districts and receive credit or payment therefor.Section 6. The Secretary of the Treasury, out of the sum made available to the President by Section 501 of the Act of March 9, 1933, will in all proper cases pay the reasonable costs of transportation of gold coin, gold bullion or gold certificates delivered to a member bank or Federal Reserve Bank in accordance with Section 2, 3, or 5 hereof, including the cost of insurance, protection, and such other incidental costs as may be necessary, upon production of satisfactory evidence of such costs. Voucher forms for this purpose may be procured from Federal Reserve Banks.Section 7. In cases where the delivery of gold coin, gold bullion or gold certificates by the owners thereof within the time set forth above will involve extraordinary hardship or difficulty, the Secretary of the Treasury may, in his discretion, extend the time within which such delivery must be made. Applications for such extensions must be made in writing under oath, addressed to the Secretary of the Treasury and filed with a Federal Reserve Bank. Each application must state the date to which the extension is desired, the amount and location of the gold coin, gold bullion and gold certificates in respect of which such application is made and the facts showing extension to be necessary to avoid extraordinary hardship or difficulty.Section 8. The Secretary of the Treasury is hereby authorized and empowered to issue such further regulations as he may deem necessary to carry out the purposes of this order and to issue licenses thereunder, through such officers or agencies as he may designate, including licenses permitting the Federal Reserve Banks and member banks of the Federal Reserve System, in return for an equivalent amount of other coin, currency or credit, to deliver, earmark or hold in trust gold coin and bullion to or for persons showing the need for the same for any of the purposes specified in paragraphs (a), (c) and (d) of Section 2 of these regulations.Section 9. Whoever willfully violates any provision of this Executive Order or of these regulations or of any rule, regulation or license issued thereunder may be fined not more than $10,000, or, if a natural person, may be imprisoned for not more than ten years, or both; and any officer, director, or agent of any corporation who knowingly participates in any such violation may be punished by a like fine, imprisonment, or both.This order and these regulations may be modified or revoked at any time./s/
Franklin D. Roosevelt
President of the United States of America
April 5, 1933
a) Such amount of gold as may be required for legitimate and customary use in industry, profession or art within a reasonable time, including gold prior to refining and stocks of gold in reasonable amounts for the usual trade requirements of owners mining and refining such gold.(b) Gold coin and gold certificates in an amount not exceeding in the aggregate $100 belonging to any one person; and gold coins having a recognized special value to collectors. of rare and unusual coins.(c) Gold coin and bullion earmarked or held in trust for a recognized foreign Government or foreign central bank or the Bank for International Settlements.(d) Gold coin and bullion licensed for other proper transactions (not involving hoarding) including gold coin and bullion imported for reexport or held pending action on applications for export licenses.Section 3. Until otherwise ordered any person becoming the owner of any gold coin, gold bullion, or gold certificates after April 28, 1933, shall, within three days after receipt thereof, deliver the same in the manner prescribed in Section 2; unless such gold coin, gold bullion or gold certificates are held for any of the purposes specified in paragraphs (a), (b), or (c) of Section 2; or unless such gold coin or gold bullion is held for purposes specified in paragraph (d) of Section 2 and the person holding it is, with respect to such gold coin or bullion, a licensee or applicant for license pending action thereon.Section 4. Upon receipt of gold coin, gold bullion or gold certificates delivered to it in accordance with Sections 2 or 3, the Federal Reserve Bank or member bank will pay therefor an equivalent amount of any other form of coin or currency coined or issued under the laws of the United States.Section 5. Member banks shall deliver all gold coin, gold bullion and gold certificates owned or received by them (other than as exempted under the provisions of Section 2) to the Federal Reserve Banks of their respective districts and receive credit or payment therefor.Section 6. The Secretary of the Treasury, out of the sum made available to the President by Section 501 of the Act of March 9, 1933, will in all proper cases pay the reasonable costs of transportation of gold coin, gold bullion or gold certificates delivered to a member bank or Federal Reserve Bank in accordance with Section 2, 3, or 5 hereof, including the cost of insurance, protection, and such other incidental costs as may be necessary, upon production of satisfactory evidence of such costs. Voucher forms for this purpose may be procured from Federal Reserve Banks.Section 7. In cases where the delivery of gold coin, gold bullion or gold certificates by the owners thereof within the time set forth above will involve extraordinary hardship or difficulty, the Secretary of the Treasury may, in his discretion, extend the time within which such delivery must be made. Applications for such extensions must be made in writing under oath, addressed to the Secretary of the Treasury and filed with a Federal Reserve Bank. Each application must state the date to which the extension is desired, the amount and location of the gold coin, gold bullion and gold certificates in respect of which such application is made and the facts showing extension to be necessary to avoid extraordinary hardship or difficulty.Section 8. The Secretary of the Treasury is hereby authorized and empowered to issue such further regulations as he may deem necessary to carry out the purposes of this order and to issue licenses thereunder, through such officers or agencies as he may designate, including licenses permitting the Federal Reserve Banks and member banks of the Federal Reserve System, in return for an equivalent amount of other coin, currency or credit, to deliver, earmark or hold in trust gold coin and bullion to or for persons showing the need for the same for any of the purposes specified in paragraphs (a), (c) and (d) of Section 2 of these regulations.Section 9. Whoever willfully violates any provision of this Executive Order or of these regulations or of any rule, regulation or license issued thereunder may be fined not more than $10,000, or, if a natural person, may be imprisoned for not more than ten years, or both; and any officer, director, or agent of any corporation who knowingly participates in any such violation may be punished by a like fine, imprisonment, or both.This order and these regulations may be modified or revoked at any time./s/Franklin D. Roosevelt
President of the United States of America
April 5, 1933
Peerless67
Hero Member
Bill96 said:
PRENTISS MOORE
OAKLAND TRIBUNE (MON NOV 26 1962)
LA. LAWYER
GETS INTERIM
COURT POST
SACRAMENTO -W- Gov.
Brown yesterday announced
his appointment of Prentiss
Moore, 52, an attorney, to the
Los Angeles Superior Court
bench post vacated by the
resignation of Judge Fletcher
Bowron.
Moore will serve only until
Kathleen Parker, who was
elected to the post Nov. 6,
takes office. Brown said he
wanted Moore to have the job
so he can later use his advice
"about some of the administrative
problems facing our
courts "
Moore, a Los Angeles attorney,
is a Democrat and tha
son of Minor Moore, former
presiding justice of the District
Court of Appeal.
Jan 29th 1959 THE VAN NUYS NEWS Ca
State Controller
Names 5 County
Tax Appraisers
Five state inheritance tax
appraisers for Los Angeles
County have been appointed
by State Controller Alan
Cranston
The five Cranston appointees
are.
Prentiss Moore 48, attorney
and partner in the law firm
of Moore, Webster & Lindelof.
Jack J. Spitzer 41, real estate
broker.
Donald H. McKee 56, investment
banker and business
management specialist who
heads his own firm, McKee
& Co.
Charles R. Newbv 52, attorney
and partner in the
law firm of Newby, Holder &
Newby.
Richard S. Sparks 61, realtor
and real estate appraiser.
All but McKee are Democrats.
McKee is a Republican.
Top Member Reactions
-
3110 -
1883 -
1741 -
1541 -
1250 -
1132 -
927 -
909 -
805 -
783 -
757 -
748 -
593 -
572 -
520 -
512 -
435 -
425 -
408 -
399
