17 Tons of gold in New Mexico

[Roadquest]

Model T, Wonder if Ed Foster had a picture of the plane before it was shot. Clayton

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

A Handbook of Civil War Bullets and Cartridges - Grab it through Amazon!

[gollum]

Model T,

If you are close with Ed Foster, then you have most of the information you need. Ed Foster interviewed a LOT of people related to the story, and people peripherally related to other people in the story.

I was just reading through the "Ed Foster" Section of my research, he knew the name of the pilot (who I posted the picture of), he knew the name of the location of the first landing spot and hiding place of the gold (the place name and the ranch name).

Everyone,

I will give a couple of more tidbits that are VERY interesting from interviews:

In an interview with a Ms. K,

"She mentioned there was eight bars of gold used as show and tell during the negotiations to sell the gold. She got this information from a document in the possession of Angus McKetchum (McKeatchen).

She said that in 1952, Trabuco took McKetchum (McKeatchen) and three jurors from LA, CA to Farmington, NM. They were blindfolded and a ways away from the Farmington Airport where they were shown the show and tell bars. She got this information from McKetchum (McKeatchen).

She stated that McKetchum(sic) also had a document that identifies a person in the United States who was supposed to meet with Trubaco and Trubaco was going to tell him where the gold was buried. She said the name was "LUCKEY" or part of the name was LUCKEY )(that would be George Luckey).

Best-Mike

 

[Peerless67]

Mike, although I do not doubt the interview with Mrs K took place, I do not think that the scenario given took place.

Angus D McEachen was the Asst US district Attorney responsible for presenting the case to the Grand Jury.
McEachen along with Asst US district Attorney Ray H Kinnison who was also Chief of the Criminal Division were working with Los Angeles most senior Secret Service agent Victor D Carli.
The Grand Jury dates were 17th 18th 19th September 1952 and October 2nd 1952, during those hearings no one by the name of Trabuco or anyone with any other Mexican name appeared.
There were 4 subpoenas issued and all 4 men appeared.

McEachen had in his possesion the names of several prominent business men, those names included George E Luckey. And obviously they would because he was the one along with Prentiss Moore who had informed the Treasury Department of the meeting they had attended with Bruce Clews.
The evidence that McEachen had in his possesion was a signed affidavitt, signed by Martin Hougen who stated that he had seen the gold personally. That affidavit was in the escrow file that was held by Klepper at the bank.
McEachen on more than one occasion during and after the hearings stated that he believed the gold was within 40 miles of LA and that he believed it was in the Ontario Ca area.

The information Mrs K gave would have been availiable in over 20 newspapers on each day the hearings were held, There were no field trips taken by Jurors during the 4 days of hearings, and only Mrs Ks account claims that happened.
Why would McEachen of allowed "Trabuco" to attend such a field trip, but not make him appear at the hearings.
The unamed Mexican owner does get a name during the case, and as you know the name is mentioned during the interview with Holmdahl, the suspected owners name is given, (in the redacted paperwork) although IF he was the original owner he died in 1923 of gunshot wounds.

Had any of the people heading the investigation have seen gold ingots themselves, then without a doubt indictments would have been issued, and "Trabuco" would have appeared, history proves that never happened.

I know you know the angle the Secret Service and the DAs office were investigating, Holmdahl being questioned speaks volumes, and all of a sudden one of my theories does not seem so off the wall, that coupled with who they thought the Mexican owner may have been.
Also makes you wonder, given the depth of that investigation why our friend Harry was never questioned.

Gary

 

[Peerless67]

Peerless, to answer your question, do I recall seeing a third engine? When I first read this thread that was my first impression when the Ford Tri-Motor was mentioned. Now, I would be unable to testify to that. Perhaps it was the power of suggestion, strange how the mind works. Now that the plane was used for target practice the mystery continues. At that time the number of engines were not the subject. Model T

Model T, I believe you saw a third engine. That being the case the glyph would have probably represented the ford tri motor.
I do not know the date that Ed discovered it, but lets say it was on 6.20.1965 the problem is by that date several "searchers" believed they had the name of a pilot and the plane that he flew. So anyone (messing around) could have created that glyph prior to 6.20.1965, the only person who could tell us the true meaning of that glyph is the person who created it, in their absence it is just a glyph of a plane that appears to be a ford tri motor discovered on 6.20.1965 of course none of that means it is not genuine, just unknown.
The problem with the pilot is that he was never questioned in relation to the story by the secret service or the DAs office, so there is no legal implication, and the one interview I know of that was taken privately, he denied any part in the story. Again that is not to say that he never played a part just that he denied any part, which would be smart given the magnitude.

I have a different pilot at the 1950s site which has always left me wondering why they would have bought in a second pilot as they already had a trusted pilot working with them if Harry really was the original pilot. Not only that but in the 50s Harry was still around so it makes little sense to me. By March 1968 all the main players were dead, except for the "claimed 1933 pilot" Harry. who would have been only 58 in 1968

Do you know if Ed ever spoke to Harry ? and what he had to say about his part ?

Gary

 

[allenroyboy]

If I remember correctly, according to the newspaper accounts, it was one of those subpoenaed who claimed to have seen the "show and tell" and he didn't or wouldn't tell who showed it to him.

If I were "Trabuco" I'd have not told him my real name, or even have had another intermediary to show the bars. And I would have been "conveniently" out of the country when subpoenas were issued. Perhaps no subpoena was issued for a Mexican because they knew he was out of the country.

Allen

 

[Peerless67]

ARB, you are correct, the person who claimed they had seen the bars was Hougen, his affadvit claimed he had seen the gold himself.
And if "Trabuco" would have been present in the USA he would never have been allowed to avoid the Grand Jury hearings.

PS: maybe they never issued a subpoena because they believed the Mexican owner was dead

Gary

 

[Roadquest]

Model T,

What direction is the plane in your picture pointed to ( or flying in )

Clayton

 

[allenroyboy]

PS: maybe they never issued a subpoena because they believed the Mexican owner was dead

The reports of him flying around 4 corners checking up on his stash as late as the late 60s seem to contradict that...

Alen

 

[Peerless67]

PS: maybe they never issued a subpoena because they believed the Mexican owner was dead

The reports of him flying around 4 corners checking up on his stash as late as the late 60s seem to contradict that...

Alen

Maybe you missed the point, the interview carried out with Holmdahl by the Secret Service suggested a different Mexican source for the gold.

 

[Model T]

Peerless, I do not know if Ed spoke to Harry. I was not in Ed's inner circle, I sensed Ed was very careful with the research he took 40 years to acquire. He did tell the story of the plane gliding back to the site then having to land at shiprock, I think, because the engine ( single engine ? ) would not start.

 

[Model T]

Roadquest, The glyf of the plane is located on the north side of a rock formation. As you face south to view it the plane is pointing up. That was my sense of direction as I had no compass. Perhaps someone else must have seen this as well and comment........ Ed must of had a photo, what happened to all of his research? He had a lot of files.

 

[Peerless67]

Peerless, I do not know if Ed spoke to Harry. I was not in Ed's inner circle, I sensed Ed was very careful with the research he took 40 years to acquire. He did tell the story of the plane gliding back to the site then having to land at shiprock, I think, because the engine ( single engine ? ) would not start.

Model T, I believe the term for such a landing is "dead stick" although im not 100%.
That kind of glide/landing is possible, but a three engined aircraft would not have to make such a landing if one engine cut out. If all 3 engines cut out on a ford tri motor, the pilot would have to be pretty close to his landing site as a 6 ton aircraft would have limited "gliding" time. Its interesting Ed told that story, because it does hint at the aircraft not being the tri motor ?
I know you said you do not know if Ed ever spoke to Harry, but did he ever say anything that made you believe Harry was the pilot?

Gary

 

[gollum]

Gary,

McEachen on more than one occasion during and after the hearings stated that he believed the gold was within 40 miles of LA and that he believed it was in the Ontario Ca area.

Do you have a first hand source for this? I ask because in not one of the FOIA Investigation Reports or Interviews do any of the investigating agents make any such statements. And these reports are the exact ones filed by the Investigating Agents of the US Secret Service.

Best-Mike

 

[Peerless67]

"McEachen on more than one occasion during and after the hearings stated that he believed the gold was within 40 miles of LA and that he believed it was in the Ontario Ca area."


Mike my quote above mentions one (1) person, and I am refering to a district attorney not a secret service agent or agents.

Don't know what you consider a first hand source, but as several reporters of the time took down the same notes/quotes and named Angus D McEachen in the statements I believe the statements were made.
just as 1 example I have quoted one newspaper below, the same statements appeared in different articles in different papers and on nearly all the dates the hearings took place and after the hearings he made similar quotes.


LONG BEACH INDEPENDENT (september 17th 1952)

according to Asst. U.S Atty Angus D McEachen
The attorney said the exact location of the buried treasure
was not known, but added that it could be in the Ontario area.


Same article says:

An attempt to track down a $20,000,000 hoard of gold
ingots reportedly buried somewhere in the southland -- possibly
within 40 miles of Long Beach-- will be made today by
the Los Angeles County Federal Grand Jury.



Gary

 

[Roadquest]

There is another story about a plane and buried treasure in the 4 corners area. This is the story told to "Apache Jim" by an old Navajo man about a plane that brought something to a mesa near the Carrizo Mts. Supposedly the Navajo man, as a child in the 30s, witnessed plane landings and unloadings. Then the stuff was taken to a place where it was buried, then several of the helpers were killed and buried with the stuff. Only one or two walked away from the site.

Could this be associated with the Trabuco cache? I find it hard to see Trabuco selling the gold to the government and then saying, "Oh, just ignore all those bones. They're nothing...." It could be another group like organized crime hiding booze money.....

This may be what the plane glyph is associated with..... who knows?





Allen

That would put it in the Lincoln National Forest. Be hard to get a permit to dig there.

Clayton

 

[allenroyboy]

The Carrizo Mountains are on the Navajo Rez just south of 4 corners in AZ. It is different than Carrizo Mt. of NM.

It includes Zilbetod and Pastora Peaks.

Allen

 

[Roadquest]

The Carrizo Mountains are on the Navajo Rez just south of 4 corners in AZ. It is different than Carrizo Mt. of NM.

It includes Zilbetod and Pastora Peaks.

Allen

My Bad.....Clayton

 

[Model T]

Peerless, according to you research, do you believe the location of the 17 tons is known by someone connected to those named in your research, thus not "lost"? Could the confusion about diffrent planes be the result of observation while reconnaissance was being done searching for a cache site before the deed? Yes. I agree, dead stick is the proper term. Just repeating as it was described to me. Model T

 

[Peerless67]

Model T, My research has lead me to a site, the site was leased by Hougen and some other business men. The site is a 1950s site.
I have always believed that the $20,000,000 cache from the 50s could be unconnected to the so called 17 tons (1933) story.
I have never quite been able to find the link between all the Californians and a Mexican owner named Trabuco.
Every person who can be identified from the 50s reports came from California, even those approached to act as intermediaries were Californians.

Moore Ca
Luckey Ca
Klepper Ca
Clews Ca
Hougen Ca
Nobel Ca
Holmdahl Ca
Stewart Ca
Pilot (Harry) Ca
Pilot (Bud) Ca
Villa Mexico died 1923

Hougens 4 partners were also from California (one was a mexican living in LA owner of several service stations)

The 2 suspected pilots were both from California, One had his business in Holmdahls home town of Van Nuys. He also owned a Ford Tri Motor in the early 30s. The other owned a Stearman with the 450 hp conversion. So one meets the 1933 story spec the other I know played a part at the 50s site.
When the secret service questioned Holmdahl it was in relation to gold believed to have been that of Pancho Villa.

It is a fact that Villa stole gold
It is a fact Holmdahl was one of Villas most trusted Colnels
It is a fact that Holmdahl immediately after the death of Villa in 1923 went in search of his "treasure" and searched for years
It is a fact Holmdahl and Noss were aquainted
It is a fact Holmdahl and Hougen were aquainted along with Clews and Nobel
It is a fact that Bruce Clews acting on Hougens behalf attended a meeting with Moore and Luckey at Moores offices.
It is a fact that Luckey contacted the Treasury and/or the Secret Service
It is a fact that Bernard Klepper had an escrow account in the amount of 20 million held at his bank with an affidavit signed by Hougen claiming he had seen the $20,000,000 worth of gold.
It is a fact that the gold was scheduled to be delivered to the SanFrancisco mint on two occasions and never was delivered.
It is a fact 4 of those mentioned above were issued with subpoenas to attend a grand jury hearing in LA in 1952 and all of those mentioned above were questioned.
It is a fact Hougen and some other SoCal business men leased my site in the 50s and installed a runway.


Now for the 1933 story:

Trabuco ?
Ortega ?
Sepulveda ?
Morado ?
William Elliott ?

So I think if there was a 17 ton cache delivered to the 4 corners area in 1933 it is likely unrelated to the $20,000,000 offered for sale in California, by Californians, to be delivered to a Californian Mint.
Of course should I ever find evidence of a Leon Trabuco that could have had access to that amount of gold I may change my mind as to where it could have originated. But that still will not change the facts that pertain to the story after 1950, because they are all legally documented facts. Whereas everything pre 1950 is at best hearsay.

I am happy to answer any questions anyone has, except for the location of my 1950s site.



Gary

 

[Roadquest]

Micheal Chapala is selling real estate also. Says he will cut you
a great deal on land. And you don't even need to see.

Clayton