17 Tons of gold in New Mexico

[Roadquest]

One is 1937 and the other is 1933. I also don't see anything that could realistically be a prop.

Best-Mike

1937 being the year they moved some of the gold, reather then moving it all in the 50's?

Clayton

 

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[Roadquest]

Whoever chalked in the numbers faked them....

The dates were made at different times. They are done by different instruments.

I thought some of this was put here at different times. But, I'm not an expert at it, don't know for sure. How can you tell that it was done by the same person, and at different times (dates)

 

[Roadquest]

ARB is right, the bottom date is definitely MAY 11, 1933. If you are just going by the appearance of the pictograph, then the aircraft in question would be a glider. I don't know if the maker had anything to do with the gold or not, but there is a map carved into the same rock (sorry, but I won't share that pic).

Best-Mike

Mike, the map appears to be older than the plane pictograph.
Just my opinion.

Clayton

 

[gollum]

Sorry Clayton, but I didn't post the map, and the "O"s at the top of the pic are not part of it.

Best-Mike

 

[Peerless67]

Mike above is the glyph before the chalk was added, can you point me to where the 1933 is.

Thanks gary

 

[allenroyboy]

The lower date was carved with a sharp instrument. The plane appears to be cut with the same instrument.

The upper date was carved with a more blunt instrument making the strokes wider and not as deep.

The 7s and 3s appear to be similar in shape which could indicate that the same person did both dates.

Whoever wrote February couldn't spell very well..... FEBRARY....

If this was done by a Spanish speaking person they should read FEBRERO and MAYO.

Allen

 

[Peerless67]

The lower date was carved with a sharp instrument. The plane appears to be cut with the same instrument.

The upper date was carved with a more blunt instrument making the strokes wider and not as deep.

The 7s and 3s appear to be similar in shape which could indicate that the same person did both dates.

Whoever wrote February couldn't spell very well..... FEBRARY....

If this was done by a Spanish speaking person they should read FEBRERO and MAYO.

Allen

I agree in part, although I would say that the top date is more rounded IE the A is rounded at the top.
I would also say that the 7s are very obvious.
The bottom date has deffinately been carved with a sharper instrument.
The plane is deffinately a single engined mono wing with fixed wheels, I believe the top date is original to Febuary 1937 and the plane and bottom date have been added, I stand by my belief that the glyph is nothing to do with the 17 tons story.
I do not think the two dates were done by the same hand, but its possible.
The bottom date seems to have been done with more purpose, it just screams fake to me

 

[Roadquest]

Sorry Clayton, but I didn't post the map, and the "O"s at the top of the pic are not part of it.

Best-Mike

Mike, I know you didn't post the map. And I know the "O"s is not part of it.

Clayton

 

[allenroyboy]

There is another story about a plane and buried treasure in the 4 corners area. This is the story told to "Apache Jim" by an old Navajo man about a plane that brought something to a mesa near the Carrizo Mts. Supposedly the Navajo man, as a child in the 30s, witnessed plane landings and unloadings. Then the stuff was taken to a place where it was buried, then several of the helpers were killed and buried with the stuff. Only one or two walked away from the site.

Could this be associated with the Trabuco cache? I find it hard to see Trabuco selling the gold to the government and then saying, "Oh, just ignore all those bones. They're nothing...." It could be another group like organized crime hiding booze money.....

This may be what the plane glyph is associated with..... who knows?

Allen

 

[Roadquest]

now the 3 does look like a seven! And 1137.....

And there is a propeller. (vertical line in front of plane)

Allen the 1137 was suppose to be 1937. They left the loop off the top of the 9

Clayton

 

[Roadquest]

Mike, I want to ask you a question. If you don't want to answer it. Thats understandable.
My question is, when did your group did up the three gold bars. And were they all in one place?

Thanks Clayton

 

[gollum]

Gary,

Seeing your pic, I see what you mean. That is definitely a 7 and not a 3. The prop may or may not be. Doesn't really matter anyway. Glad you posted it. That sheds a lot of light, and makes me wonder about the chalker?

Best-Mike

 

[gollum]

Years ago. They are all supposed to be in somewhat of a circle around the mesa where the gold was originally hidden. One was hidden under a boulder that had a big iron spike in the top. It was wrapped (as I remember it) in red canvas or something like that (I'll have to look back at that).

The two remaining bars might have been found by someone who didn't know what they meant and sold for the gold value. I know they haven't been able to find them, and its' been years.

Best-Mike

 

[allenroyboy]

about 3D photo sets.

I said about 2 inches apart, side-by-side. Actually that should be about 6 inches apart to exaggerate the 3D effect. The average width between our eyes is 2.5 inches.

Allen

 

[Peerless67]

The chalker was not trying to decieve anyone, merely looking at possibilities, there are some natural marks near the lower 7 which could be mistaken for a 3 thats been altered

 

[allenroyboy]

All of the strokes of the letters and numbers of the lower date are made with a sharp instrument. If the 7 was made to cover up a shallower letter 3, then one would expect all the letters/numbers to show signs of previous letters/numbers. I don't see any think like that.

If the 7 was made with a different instrument than the others in the lower date, then you may have a case.

The surface of the rock around the numbers has many indentions similar to those the 7 stratches through.

Allen

 

[Peerless67]

Yep I pretty much agree, the guy who chalked the numbers never set out to decieve anyone though, he just looked at the possibilities. Hence the existance of more than one photo.
If I had to come up with an explanation I would guess that Sunday February 14th 1937 was original, and quiet possible that a guy had taken his girl out on a picnic? romantic lunch ? for Valentines day and carved that reminder.
Whereas the bottom date, although not April 1st would certainly not be out of place on that carving.

 

[Peerless67]

Mike, I want to ask you a question. If you don't want to answer it. Thats understandable.
My question is, when did your group did up the three gold bars. And were they all in one place?

Thanks Clayton

In regards to the gold bar map, I have already expressed that I doubt it exists. Thats not to say I do not believe Mike was told of it.
Mike has already expressed a belief the gold was trucked south in the 50s and then moved again. If the caretaker had made a map after originally moving the gold and then it got moved again, then surely the map only leads to the 1st place the gold was moved to. So even if you found the 2 remaining bars, you would only have a map to a no longer existing cache. Other than that the obvious question is why on earth would anyone make a 150 kg gold map. If it truely existed it sure would make for an interesting picture, not to mention extremely valuable.

 

[Peerless67]

Leon Trabuco is said to have been responsible for the 17 tons, however I believe my research has been pretty extensive and as I have said before although I was able to find several Leon Trabucos, none of them fitted the profile.
I know everyone uses his name when talking about the 17 tons, maybe just because the legend says he was responsible for the 17 tons group and bringing the gold into the States.

When I found the 1950s site, I came across the names of some of the groups business partners, among the names was a Mexican name, I learned that he was a business partner of Hougen and that he owned several service stations in Los Angeles, however he was a resident of California and not Mexico.
I know this person played an active part in the 1950s, but his name was not Trabuco, thats not to say he could not have had relatives with that surname, but he never shared that name.
What is interesting is that when the 4 subpoenas were issued they failed to issue any for any Mexican nationals or even American citizens with Mexican names, contrary to what was written in the L A Times.

I personally have doubts that anyone called Trabuco had any part in the story, I have been in contact with many 17 tons researchers over the years and apart from a couple of questionable documents I have never seen anything that could constitute evidence of his existance.
Given the amount of information out in the public domain with regard to the 17 tons story, it seems strange that evidence of Trabuco's existance has not been bought to light.

Does anyone have any evidence that he was indeed a real person and played an active part in the story?
Makes no sense that info would be so closely guarded now.

Anyone?

Gary

 

[Model T]

To answer your question Peerless 67, NO, I am not looking for this treasure. Like a lone wolf I circled and sniffed and realized that larger predators than I occupied the area. Having a high regard for self preservation ........... This one seems to be beyond my ability. I bow to Gollum, Peerles and others that have discovered information from impressive research and contacts that seem very creditable, although opposite. I have an agricultural and mining background and like treasure hunters we have never been able to successfuly unite or agree either. The post about the Navaho reservation brought back another memory; ( Since Ed is gone I'll relate this ) Ed showed me a picture taken on the reservation in front of a hogan foundation he said, he and the other five or so people looked like they had won the lottery, a long iron rod rose up in back of them. He would not comment beyond that. Just speculation I know, but the subject at the time was about treasure when he rose up and got the photo. Ed was well connected to the best of the professionals, one time after I came home from Ed's place a partner of John Wayne called me in regard to something I had discussed with Ed. When the subject of gold is involved I have learned to have high regard for self preservation. Model T