🥇 BANNER 1652 Massachusetts 6 Pence

[The Fog]

Hello tnetters, I don't post very often, I'm more of a sandbagger! I hunt with Brian W who has posted some of his finds here before. Today we hit an area we've had our eye on for quite some time and it didn't disappoint. An hour into the hunt Bri comes walking down a hill towards me with an incredible button.... I'll wait for him to post that if he chooses to. It was quite a nice button to say the least. Anyway I'd been digging shotgun shell after shotgun shell, flashing, lead pieces, can tops etc. With little light left in the day I found a complete colonial shoe buckle, very nice shape, my day was made, I was happy with just that. The sun was dropping behind the horizon and I was content with my buckle and an undetermined Indian head penny. Just before i was ready to leave I got a decent signal but it was reading only and inch deep, I kicked the leaves and pine needles aside to get to hard earth. I swung the area of bare dirt and the signal was gone. I checked the debris pile of leaves and pine needles... I couldn't believe my eyes when i saw the 16! This coin was barely below the surface. Unfortunately I have some light scratches on it from brushing the leaves and pine needles away. I have no idea what variety it is or if it's a counterfeit. Brian told me to post it here and Iron Patch would be the guy to ID it. Anyway, we had a great day and it was amazing to find this coin.

 

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[hogge]

I'm never afraid to admit that I was wrong. But ALL the varieties that I looked at were so far off from this coin. Even some of the C-4 guys had differing opinions.

 

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[Iron Patch]

I'm never afraid to admit that I was wrong. But ALL the varieties that I looked at were so far off from this coin. Even some of the C-4 guys had differing opinions.

The only thing that counts is that the expert opinions agree in the end... and I'm not talking about us!

 

[BuckleBoy]

What a coin! To dig one, regardless of what it is, is exceptional. Waiting to hear the variety and attribution determination.

-Buck

 

[Iron Patch]

Just saw on the C-4 site. Waiting on definitive confirmation, but it appears to be the VERY RARE NOE-17.5....(Dies Re-worked) The 17...17.1...and 17.5, all come from the same dies.

I'm interested to hear this explained because I can't see how it gets to be 17.5... well I guess I can.


If 17.1 is the original die, then they clash, and we see the 17s with what looks like the obvious results from the damage, how can the dug coin in question be from a reworked die that dates in the middle? For it to be 17.5 the only possibility is that it was reworked before the clash, just funny Coinfacts doesn't say anything about this unless it's a fairly recent discovery. Anything pre clash almost certainly puts it in the primo category, and if they altered the die twice who's to say it didn't happen more than that and maybe this coin will show that. Like you say Don... a 17.6! (or 17.4)

 

[Don in SJ]

Confirmed! Noe 17.5 !!! Further info later. But you have found a very rare piece...

Don

 

[Iron Patch]

Confirmed! Noe 17.5 !!! Further info later. But you have found a very rare piece...

Don

I would say more like a sensationally rare piece given the 17 is about rarity 6. See if you can get the R number on it, or better yet how many known.

 

[The Patriot]

That's one coin on many hunters minds...incredible to say the least!

 

[hogge]

Just read about it on C-4.....And by the way.....It is a "circulating counterfeit"! VERY RARE.

 

[Iron Patch]

Just read about it on C-4.....And by the way.....It is a "circulating counterfeit"! VERY RARE.

Are you sure you're not in the media or a politician?

"I strongly believe, a circulating counterfeit"


It's interesting the guy who wrote the book can't even be sure, but what he says is no doubt what's going to go unless someone can prove different. In this case I don't think being counterfeit makes much difference, and it's probably still worth more than a less rare genuine coin.

 

[The Fog]

Wow... I am shaking as I'm typing this. Iron Patch, Don, Hogge and to all that have helped in determining the variety of this coin I sincerely thank you for your effort and expertise. In my short 7 years of detecting I've been that guy in the hunt that ends up with shotgun shells, lead, can slaw and ox knobs while others are finding coppers, buttons, and buckles. I remember a couple of years ago I almost gave up detecting after not finding ANYTHING noteworthy during a 6 month stretch. There's a small group of folks I have detected with on several occasions that can attest to this. Maybe your scrim is too high, what settings are you using, maybe there's dirt in the coil cover, you're probably swinging too fast or too slow, are you ground balancing? I knew it was none of these things, my hunting partner BrianW uses a Minelab Excaliber and I use a Minelab Safari and we always try to swing each others targets prior to digging to guess what it could be by the tone and VID and our machines almost always agree. It was very frustrating to come home at the end of the weekend and not have something to fizz in a cup of peroxide, to break out a Q-tip and aluminum jelly and carefully wipe away the crud to see just how much detail that button had left, or to marvel at a simple buckle that still shows file markings from skilled artisan that crafted it with no power tools or machinery. To pull a buckle from the ground after 250 years of New England weather and still have it open and close is a testament to how well things were made. A new penny today wouldn't last two years in the soil.

For the last 7 years during the spring, fall and even winter (if the snow was light we'd carry a hammer and chisel if the top of the ground was frozen), we've spent almost every weekend traipsing patches of woods within 150 miles of my home. I never thought I would find something like this. To think I found this coin before finding a buffalo nickel, a flying eagle penny, a capped bust quarter, a trime, a V-nickel, a half penny, the list goes on. And even stranger that this coin was less than half an inch deep, and didn't even require using a digging tool. The hundreds of targets that I passed by because they were so close to the top, or ended up in the pile of leaves and pine needles I brushed aside to get to hard earth really gives me pause as to what i may have walked by. I will never again look at my screen again and see a target right on top and discount it.

This is an incredibly fun albeit frustrating hobby at times but man oh man what a feeling to find something amazing. Now I have to decompress and think about what I will do with my find. I have never sold anything I have found, I have never been into this hobby for any monetary gain whatsoever, and part of me thinks if this coin is this that rare it belongs in the collection of someone who will care for it wether that be a private sale or a museum. I'm not a coin collector, I just enjoy detecting and the sights, sounds and smells of walking through the woods. Thanks for all the kind words from the posters on this thread, and Bri you were right... I finally found something over the top. HH and fill your holes.

 

[Limitool]

Mr. Fog... I am so happy for you and your find. I honestly don't know what I'd do if I found something like you did. Congratulation's and keep up the great finds... though it will be hard to match!!!!

So all you experts... What dollar value does this prize fall into? Or is it way to early to tell? I'm just curious... its not everyday someone finds such a rare item (at least I don't). Obviously, I need to get out of my cave (pun intended) and start swinging my MD A LOT MORE!!!!!!!!! Later.... Brad

 

[Tobias]

Are you sure you're not in the media or a politician?
"I strongly believe, a circulating counterfeit"
It's interesting the guy who wrote the book can't even be sure, but what he says is no doubt what's going to go unless someone can prove different. In this case I don't think being counterfeit makes much difference, and it's probably still worth more than a less rare genuine coin.

Interesting. Is there any special reason (or reasons) why the coins minted with the Noe 17 dies are considered counterfeit?

 

[Don in SJ]

Interesting. Is there any special reason (or reasons) why the coins minted with the Noe 17 dies are considered counterfeit?

Quoting Mr Salmon, the author of the Mass Silver coin book:
"Fascinating and amazing coin, and, I strongly believe, a circulating counterfeit (and I've thus classified these scarce pieces 4-X). All of the "17" subvarieties and die states (as well as the Noe 18/5-X which followed) are extremely anomalous and differ markedly from regular mint issues. "

Rather big words he used but as was pointed out previously, first clue evidently was the 1 being a style not used by regular mint, not sure what he really considers for other differences, not well versed at all in Mass silver, odds of finding one in my area are rather low, but possible.

 

[hogge]

I thought it was totally amazing, that "I" could immediately pick out so many differences in this coin from the 17. The "1" being the most obvious. After reading The Fog's last post, how can you not be happy for the guy!? This kind of find is what makes us all want to keep digging! Just goes to show, and I have always said, you never know what you're going to find, or where. Wish it was me!

 

[hogge]

Are you sure you're not in the media or a politician?

"I strongly believe, a circulating counterfeit"


It's interesting the guy who wrote the book can't even be sure, but what he says is no doubt what's going to go unless someone can prove different. In this case I don't think being counterfeit makes much difference, and it's probably still worth more than a less rare genuine coin.

It's ALL about perception. Are you gonna tell this guy he's mistaken? Did we ever get a weight on this coin??

 

[Evolution]

An absolutely amazing find. I can't even imagine finding something like that. Congratulations! . Additionally, it never ceases to amaze me how much effort some people on this site put into helping others identify their finds accurately. Awesome work fellas. .

 

[johnnyblaze]

Amazing find

Dream come true and high on my list

Blaze

 

[Army of 1]

Awesome coin , a once in a life time find , congrats Ka-ching Ka-ching .. cheers Mick

 

[Jeff H]

Holy #^%$ Fog ! I am late to the party on this but congrats on a super find and on the banner....definately would get my vote !

 

[creade]

AWESOME