$1,000,000 for anyone who can dowse.

I believe they were speaking of some other device, not just a rod. But the truth is the rod doesn't do anything. It's not the rod that does the dowsing, it is you. All it is, is a tool to amplify the small subconcious movements in the wrist.

A (baseball) bat doesn't do anything but sit there on the ground until the player utilizes it.
 

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Sandsted said:
I would like the test conducted by someone who is unbiased. Someone who cares not for the result either way.

Not only conducted by a someone with a neutral position on the subject, but I don't want some skeptic like yourself at the end of this test either.
Click to expand...

I'm afraid there is a problem here. Your usage seems to indicate that you think "skeptic" means "one who firmly disbelieves." This is incorrect.

You say you want someone who doesn't care about the result one way or another. This is closer to the meaning of "skeptic."

A true skeptic is someone who neither believes nor disbelieves. (S)he is someone who simply needs to see proof of something before accepting that it is valid. A true skeptic has no preconceived notions as to the validity of something. So, a true skeptic would not come into a dowsing test already convinced it doesn't work.

So, what you are saying is that you want a true skeptic to run the test, but you don't want any skeptics around when you do it. You want someone who will both be there and not be there at the same time?

This doesn't just apply to you, but to many of the "believers" on this forum -- they don't understand what it really means to be skeptical. I am a true skeptic. I do not believe in anything. There are things I know, and things I don't know. For example, I have never seen dowsing work, so I don't believe that it does. I don't believe that it doesn't, either. I just plain don't know -- I am "skeptical" about it. On the other hand, I have personally experienced telepathy with other people, and therefore don't believe or disbelieve in it, either -- I know it is real. Since I know it exists, I am "not skeptical" about it.

What it boils down to is this: use the words properly. If you mean "disbeliever" do not use "skeptic." They are not synonymous. I think this will help clear up some of the confusion on this thread.
 

What you say is true, I shouldn't use the term skeptic like that. But I only do this because these nonbelievers have called themselves skeptics.

You call the dowsers on the forum "believers" in quotations such as I have. We, at least I am not, a believer. I am as you, pertaining to telepathy, knowing of my art's existence.

On my test I want a skeptic, but not one so skeptical that they believe it doesn't work unless they are proven wrong, I want someone that doesn't know either way...such as my one friend. He is perfect for the test.

Anyway, the person could be there at the test, but it would probably be better if they weren't within view. Just so they can't mentaly alter the results.

Just a heads up, in Minnesota tomorrow is the regular firearms open for deer hunting so...I won't be here till probably Sunday night.

Farewell,

Sandsted
 

Quote from Carl...

The preliminary test is an integral part of the overall challenge for the money. It is not something you have to pass in order to apply for the challenge. Anyone who takes the preliminary test has settled on the protocol and has a signed contract in hand, that stipulates what they have to do in order to win the money. It's just that no one has ever passed the preliminary stage.

Do you understand that Art?

You can say that no one has ever taken the final test for Randi's money. You cannot say that no one has ever taken Randi's challenge. This has been covered over and over and over on TNet.
Click to expand...

I apologize for not understanding how Randi's challenge works. I was wrong when I posted that no one had taken his challenge. I don't know how many dowsers failed the preliminary test or what the protocols were and how the tests were conducted. Until some one passes the preliminary test conducted by some unknown person I will know nothing else. The only thing I was right about was the fact that NO ONE in all the so called para-normal fields has ever taken the final test for the MONEY.....Art
 

aarthrj3811 said:
The only thing I was right about was the fact that NO ONE in all the so called para-normal fields has ever taken the final test for the MONEY.....Art
Click to expand...
That's odd. I can't to seem to locate where you ever made this statement. Until now, that is.
 

I did SWR....Just wanted to apologize to the people here for not understanding my statements about Randi's chanllege. It seems you guy's consider the Prilimiminary test as being the challenge . So the fact that no one has made it to a Test for the real bucks is not important. I agree. None of Randi's test mean nothing....Art
 

SWR said:
aarthrj3811 said:
Quote from Carl...

The preliminary test is an integral part of the overall challenge for the money. It is not something you have to pass in order to apply for the challenge. Anyone who takes the preliminary test has settled on the protocol and has a signed contract in hand, that stipulates what they have to do in order to win the money. It's just that no one has ever passed the preliminary stage.

Do you understand that Art?

You can say that no one has ever taken the final test for Randi's money. You cannot say that no one has ever taken Randi's challenge. This has been covered over and over and over on TNet.
Click to expand...

I apologize for not understanding how Randi's challenge works. I was wrong when I posted that no one had taken his challenge. I don't know how many dowsers failed the preliminary test or what the protocols were and how the tests were conducted. Until some one passes the preliminary test conducted by some unknown person I will know nothing else. The only thing I was right about was the fact that NO ONE in all the so called para-normal fields has ever taken the final test for the MONEY.....Art
Click to expand...

Um....if you are quoting Carl from another internet forum....shouldn't you reply to them on that forum. Hello? Anyone home?
Click to expand...

I Agree NO Quotes From other Sites.

This is Rude. if they want to post here they will.

AND from this point on, (9:19 PM Eastern) If pointed out to me,
I will Nuke the post.
 

aarthrj3811 said:
I did SWR....Just wanted to apologize to the people here for not understanding my statements about Randi's chanllege. It seems you guy's consider the Prilimiminary test as being the challenge . So the fact that no one has made it to a Test for the real bucks is not important. I agree. None of Randi's test mean nothing....Art
Click to expand...

Well put: "None of Randi's test mean nothing" -- remember the double negative! This translates to "All of Randi's tests mean something!"

And, as you said, you are not familiar with the full nature of the challenge. Before you continue bashing it (admittedly not knowing the details) I suggest you go to www.randi.org and read up on the full details. To argue against something without knowing fully about that something gives you very weak support for your arguments.

While you are there, check out that part of their forum which gives specifics of those who actually did take the challenge but failed the preliminary phase. You'll find there are a lot of people who took the challenge yet failed the preliminary phase. If these people could actually do what they said they could, they would have passed the prelims very easily.
 

http://forums.randi.org/
1.3. How many applicants have there been for the Challenge?

Between 1964 and 1982, Randi declared that over 650 people had applied [3]. Between 1997 and February 15, 2005, there had been a total of 360 official, notarized applications.
1.4. How many people have passed the preliminary test?

None. Most applicants never agree to a proper test protocol, so most are never tested.
1.5. How many people have passed the formal test?

No one has ever taken the formal test, as one must first pass the preliminary test.
2.1. What do you mean by "mutually agreed upon"?

"Mutually agreed upon" means that neither side can force the other side into doing or saying something that they don't want to, and that if no agreement can be reached, the application process is terminated, with no blame or fault attributed to either side.
It's easy to point fingers after a Challenge claim comes to an impasse and say that the other side was being unreasonable. This phrase is used to insure that finger-pointing has no merit.
2.2. What do you mean by "paranormal"?

This is a remarkably difficult word to define correctly.
Webster's Online Dictionary defines it as "not scientifically explainable; supernatural", and it defines "supernatural" as, "of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe; departing from what is usual or normal especially so as to appear to transcend the laws of nature; attributed to an invisible agent (as a ghost or spirit)".
The following things are paranormal by definition:

Dowsing. ESP. Precognition. Remote Viewing. Communicating with the Dead and/or "Channeling". Violations of Newton's Laws of Motion (Perpetual Motion Devices). Homeopathy. Chiropractic Healing (beyond back/joint problems). Faith Healing. Psychic Surgery. Astrology. Therapeutic Touch (aka "TT"). Qi Gong. Psychokinesis (aka "PK"). The Existence of Ghosts. Precognition & Prophecy. Levitation. Physiognomy. Psychometry. Pyramid Power. Reflexology. Applied Kinesiology (aka "AK"). Clairvoyance. The Existence of Auras. Graphology. Numerology. Palmistry. Phrenology.
The following things have been ruled NOT paranormal and/or NOT eligible for the Challenge in the past:
UFOs. "Bigfoot" & "Yeti" (or other legendary creatures). Anything that is likely to cause injury. "Cloud-busting". Claims of a Religious or Spiritual nature. Exorcism and/or Demonic Possession. The Existence of Chakras. The Existence of God.
Please check the applicaitons on this site...http://forums.randi.org/
 

And what in this copy-and-pasted information to you take exception to, Art?

You tell Randi what you can do, and fill out an application. Maybe this is what causes you to stumble, as I'm sure a modicum of intelligence is required to complete the application.

After the application is accepted, a test protocol must be agreed upon, by both parties. Maybe this is the part you don't like. After all, if you agree to a protocol, the you are saying that your ability has a threshold for testing, and we all know you hate that.

If you really can do what you say, then you pass the preliminary with flying colors and go onto the big show.

And, although dowsing isn't listed under paranormal, we know Randi will test for it.
 

After the application is accepted, a test protocol must be agreed upon, by both parties. Maybe this is the part you don't like. After all, if you agree to a protocol, the you are saying that your ability has a threshold for testing, and we all know you hate that.

If you really can do what you say, then you pass the preliminary with flying colors and go onto the big show.
Click to expand...

You need to do a little more reading. Where are the test results from those that have failed? If you don't agree with the protocols it's good-bye Charlie. You keep telling us about all these Dowsers that failed. Where's it at? It looks to me that the $1,000,000 is going to be Randi's for a long time. 42 years and no has made to the big show. That makes the odds 1010 to ?????????
 

You guys tring to collect on the $50,000 finders fee? Good luck---They have to make the big show and no one has made it EVER Art
 

So, now you're accusing Randi of paying people to find test subjects?

Will this become a new excuse for you, then?

"I don't wanna take the test because someone might get paid..." :'(
 

aarthrj3811 said:
After the application is accepted, a test protocol must be agreed upon, by both parties. Maybe this is the part you don't like. After all, if you agree to a protocol, the you are saying that your ability has a threshold for testing, and we all know you hate that.

If you really can do what you say, then you pass the preliminary with flying colors and go onto the big show.
Click to expand...

You need to do a little more reading. Where are the test results from those that have failed? If you don't agree with the protocols it's good-bye Charlie. You keep telling us about all these Dowsers that failed. Where's it at? It looks to me that the $1,000,000 is going to be Randi's for a long time. 42 years and no has made to the big show. That makes the odds 1010 to ?????????
Click to expand...
Heck, Art, I got that from you! I can't count on one hand the number of times you've cried, "No dowsers can qualify for the challenge becasue none have passed the preliminary test!"
 

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