Metal Detectiing TN. cave / Anybody done this?

[DocBeav]

That is PERFECT man! Thanks. I'm sure it will help everyone. I may have missed it before but is the depth of the water consistent all the way through (for the areas you have explored)? Just curious to see if maybe the level of water changes from time to time making other areas more accessible. Any evidence that the ceiling may have shifted or dropped some where it gets really low? May have been higher in the past. Just thinking out loud here on some of these......

The other option is, you mentioned it earlier, that there may be (or was) another entrance that comes in from another location. Can't wait for to see how you guys make out on the next trip!

 

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[JeromeAz]

I was talking to a friend about the cave and he asked if there was a pole in the cave. I said "There's bats in the cave but no its not the Bat Cave." Anyways Indians didn't have much to keep cool and putting it in the cave would have been good enough. I doubt they would go that far back. I also doubt your the first one in the cave. Probably the first one in years. If you see human digging that far back then someone else was exploring the cave also or they were hiding something. Probably not an Indian. Is it possible someone dug a hole there, buried something then over the years some of the dirt washed out revealing where someone was digging? That or they were exploring and digging to see if any thing was hid in there. Not an Indian, they didn't care about things like that.

When was the last person in there? 25 yrs ago? 50? 100? Who knows? When you get all done with the cave you need to carve your initials and date on the wall just inside the entrance so next time someone wants to know, its right there.

May the Force be with you!

 

[Limitool]

That is PERFECT man! Thanks. I'm sure it will help everyone. I may have missed it before but is the depth of the water consistent all the way through (for the areas you have explored)? Just curious to see if maybe the level of water changes from time to time making other areas more accessible. Any evidence that the ceiling may have shifted or dropped some where it gets really low? May have been higher in the past. Just thinking out loud here on some of these......

The other option is, you mentioned it earlier, that there may be (or was) another entrance that comes in from another location. Can't wait for to see how you guys make out on the next trip!

The water level is always very shallow and COLD. At its deepest maybe 3-4". At times the streambed really spreads out and the water just "filters" through the gravel before pooling again when it narrows. The water is never a problem while exploring concerning access to anything. The deepest pool is entering and going around "horseshoe" bend. But that can be "skipped" by exiting stream and crawling up onto dirt area and crawling over to "other" side. See your map #6,#33 area. The etchings on cave wall I found are in the orange area on map. The ceiling looks solid. I posted earlier - I found the water source was an artesian well deep within cave... long after going through "crack" - 1 hour from entering.

I have no evidence of any other possible entrance / exit yet. As I said long ago... after I found the artesian well and continued to go deeper the cave became even smaller. It was already getting small but now smaller but dry. It soon became like crawling inside a 55 gallon drum. You could not turn around within cave now. I went forward about 50 yards like this knowing I'd have to repeat this effort backwards. I came to a 90 degree corner going left. I looked with flashlight and ahead about 20 more yards it took a hard right. At this point I couldn't stand the thought of having to go backwards this way.... that far. I was about 1.5 hours deep now, wet, tired, very cold. Point being I NEVER saw the possibility of another exit/entrance anywhere. But I do believe I was getting close to the other side of ridge (gut feeling or wishful thinking)

 

[DocBeav]

Take your time and be careful! (i know you are, just had to say it!) Maybe you will find something like this:

Cave Art Reveals Ancient View of Cosmos

 

[Limitool]

Take your time and be careful! (i know you are, just had to say it!) Maybe you will find something like this:

Cave Art Reveals Ancient View of Cosmos

Thanks for the link. I've checked out all links sent to me by all and appreciate them.

Today, our plans are this.... Franks plans are to head this way from east TN. to my home (4 1/2 - 5 hr. drive west) and be here by noon Sunday morning. After his arrival I'm going to share more photo's, maps and we'll make plans then on how to utilize our time together. We may (just may) go to cave Sunday afternoon to introduce the environment to Frank or wait till Monday morning. We'll pack some equipment / items back then and just leave them making the next days trip "easier". Getting there is tough if packing in items or not... but getting back out is 2x's harder. Doing this on Sunday afternoon/returning and then returning early Monday morning to spend the day exploring... we'll sleep good that night! Bring it Frank (and the Advil) ... CAN'T WAIT GUY!! What I really can't wait on is for somebody else (Mr. Huntsmans53) to see this and then comment on what he see's/thinks instead of just me and share with you folks.

I've ordered Military Glow sticks that I hope will be here Saturday morning to help us light up area's that we can't and then utilize mirrored stick to see over. GREAT IDEA FROM MEMBER HERE!!!! THANKS. Frank has ordered a topo map of my area and had sent here so we can plot cave. My son may go also (he's been there before) to take photo's, video, PACK and help. I truly hope we can share something new with all of you. What I'd REALLY LIKE TO SHARE is us showing etching's, a cache hidden or us finding artifacts. We also should have the video / camera going when I enter the unexplored cavern by entrance for 1st time (critters be damned). For new folks... review previous posts to understand that last comment... but I'm going (if I fit). If Frank or my son Ben takes over this thread you'll know why and I won't care. Thanks for everyone's interest and comments (mostly) and advise.... Brad

 

[DocBeav]

Can't wait to hear/see any new updates! Hope it all went well!

 

[doc-d]

Looking forward to the updates from the exploration Sunday, Monday

 

[Limitool]

Ok folks... Frank arrived early Sunday morning and my daughter soon after. She is the one who helped take all the posted photos thus far and was with me when the dog tracked us down while deep in the cave scaring me half to death. Story on earlier post. When she got wind Frank and I were going back Saturday she joined in for the Sunday trip (not up for a vote). We did the meet and greet thing... loaded up ATV and away we went. After parking ATV and packing everything down, over and up we finally made it. Finally someone besides me gets to see this and report (Frank - Huntsman53). He'll be reporting later this afternoon or evening. It's much different seeing this cave in person than from photos.... believe me. After you start to retreat inward past the 1st turn the surroundings and your desire to learn and see more are challenged. As I've stated before the first 100 yards or so would be the more logical if hiding a cache. But hiding one deeper is NOT A PROBLEM but much more challenging but it's NOT for the fainthearted.

After we arrived we gave Frank awhile to look around and take it in. There were hiding places all over in which to put / hide something. My black lab even helped search. Photo #3 below. We left the metal detector (Franks minelab) at entrance and headed back searching holes and ledges as we advanced back to where the etching were in mud I remember from years ago. This etching spot was around 80-100 yards in. We searched every hole and behind shelves as we headed back on both sides. We found nothing or signs of anything every being their where we searched. And then we saw where someone had been back to cave and began digging just before the first turn. These was VERY FRESH diggings. And there were several of them. They were NOT there when I went this far 2 weeks earlier. Frank, Chelsea and I were bummed out. We continued on back to etchings with the going getting tougher still checking out "hiding spots". I went around "Horseshoe bend"... Frank and Chelsea went over mud bank to meet me on the other side. Frank struggled to get over mud bank with a bad back. Finally we got to etching and I took several photos which I'll post... they had not changed. Frank could go no further and struggled getting turned around to go and sit at streambed and rest. My daughter and I went back and got the "Minelab", shovel and pick and headed back to Frank. We used the metal detector all around this area and searched all areas on the way back out but hit on nothing. The mud walls to search over were just past where the etching were. All we did was thoroughly check visually and electronically the 1st 100 or so yards on this trip. We spent 3 hours in cave. Who went and dug and why where they did .... we'll never know. We did see cave crickets, frogs, crayfish, spiders and lizards. Also some very interesting fossilized bones, roots or something in the creek bed. Photos # 4 & 5 below. We also saw signs of bobcat activity through scat and clawing's. While the other cavern by entrance is accessible we noticed the ceiling was cracked and shifted downward on one half. Also on cave wall by this entrance are clawing's marks in mud... not a good sign if ya want to just enter and not knock. I didn't go.

We'd like everyone to please look closely at the etching posted and past on to anyone who might know what they mean if anything. Photos #8, 9, 10, 11 & 14 below. They were found in the area of map labeled #6 below. While 3 marks look like letters I don't believe they are if seen in person. But PLEASE look close and respond with any comments. We were so bummed out after this effort. But we looked hard and long for the 1st 100 or so yards. The mud walls will have to wait awhile to look over further back. We were exhausted after the days search and hiking. Frank will add a lot to this thread very soon. Sorry we didn't find a cache of Civil War gold (in 1st 100yds.) I'd like to publicy thank you Frank for your efforts and was glad to meet you.

The more I think about what changed between now and 2 weeks ago amazes me. This cave had NEVER changed its interior landscape since 1996. The only change was outward during 2010 when an overhead landslide occurred and changed the landscape leading up to the cave. I have a very hard time understanding what and/or why someone suddenly "discovered" this and dug where they did. Kind of gets you thinking.... WHY! or how

 

[DocBeav]

Think there has been a lurker on this thread that may have put two and two together and found the cave. You'd be surprised how people can pull info off of just a picture (if it's geo-tagged) or can find where you are posting from (IP address) and start to put the pieces together. There is another thread that has had my attention just as this has,
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/today-s-finds/355763-does-coral-beep-yes-when-its-full-coins.html
He has made what could be a fantastic find and has already had someone hanging out around outside his house and try to follow him! Keep checking your 6 when you are out there. Is this private property? If so then whoever the "muggle" is that is on his/her own quest could be cited/arrested for tresspassing or more. Be careful man.....I have no doubt that there are many persons on this site who just look, never post and wait for people to post their finds/sites and go there themselves. Be careful in the future if you ever use any imagery from Google Earth and make sure to remove the navigation/lat long info on the bottom of pictures. Also, I'd advise you and Frank not to post any future "timelines" regarding your comings and goings. Makes it too easy for them and they will know when it's safe to go out there.

Sorry that happened man. Really sucks when you are all excited about something like this and go and find something like that, it just takes the wind out of your sails. Makes you feel cheated somewhat.

To the person who went and spoiled the party (if you ARE in fact reading here). You suck. If you live in the area and wanted to get involved, you could have contacted the OP and offered assistance but YOU chose to go on your own and try and beat someone else to some "score" you think may be there. If you DID find something where you dug, then we can add theft to the trespass charges. Karma dude, you will get yours someday for this sneaky, cowardly act. Maybe you can go dig a nice piece of old, live unstable ordnance next time you go "snipe" someone else's hunt.

 

[Limitool]

Think there has been a lurker on this thread that may have put two and two together and found the cave. You'd be surprised how people can pull info off of just a picture (if it's geo-tagged) or can find where you are posting from (IP address) and start to put the pieces together. There is another thread that has had my attention just as this has,
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/today-s-finds/355763-does-coral-beep-yes-when-its-full-coins.html
He has made what could be a fantastic find and has already had someone hanging out around outside his house and try to follow him! Keep checking your 6 when you are out there. Is this private property? If so then whoever the "muggle" is that is on his/her own quest could be cited/arrested for tresspassing or more. Be careful man.....I have no doubt that there are many persons on this site who just look, never post and wait for people to post their finds/sites and go there themselves. Be careful in the future if you ever use any imagery from Google Earth and make sure to remove the navigation/lat long info on the bottom of pictures. Also, I'd advise you and Frank not to post any future "timelines" regarding your comings and goings. Makes it too easy for them and they will know when it's safe to go out there.

Sorry that happened man. Really sucks when you are all excited about something like this and go and find something like that, it just takes the wind out of your sails. Makes you feel cheated somewhat.

To the person who went and spoiled the party (if you ARE in fact reading here). You suck. If you live in the area and wanted to get involved, you could have contacted the OP and offered assistance but YOU chose to go on your own and try and beat someone else to some "score" you think may be there. If you DID find something where you dug, then we can add theft to the trespass charges. Karma dude, you will get yours someday for this sneaky, cowardly act. Maybe you can go dig a nice piece of old, live unstable ordnance next time you go "snipe" someone else's hunt.

I really don't know what happened concerning where someone had dug. It is not my property but I had permission to be on it. I just find it so ironic that in almost 20 years nobody has shown evidence of entering cave at all until now. Whoever it was did NOT TOUCH THE ETCHING and/or make it that far. I am happy for that. But I'd sure like to know why someone dug where they did... That's what Frank, Chelsea and I wanted to do. This especially after Frank drove all the way here. It's very ironic.... Frank will post his overview and thoughts soon. This cave is hard to find, small and very remote. It's not over yet because there's more to check further past the etching's point... one part at a time... but it get's more difficult going back... Brad

 

[DocBeav]

Ok, calm now.....lol
Here are some of the things I saw in the pictures.


Used #'s 8, 10, 14.

Looks,like there is more at the bottom that are in the darker stained area but hard to tell. Is that possibly from when the water was higher or is it just a mold or fungus? Someone with more knowledge might be able to give you an idea (geologist) of how old they are and if they were carved before or after the black stains ended up on the rocks.

 

[huntsman53]

Well TNnet Folks,

I am sorry for the delay in posting! After the long drive, I had to recharge the batteries per see after I got back home and unloaded the truck. After that, I did some editing of some of the pics to enlarge and brighten them up and to sharpen the images.

First off, I want to say thanks to Brad for inviting me on this adventure and thank him and his' family for all of the hospitality that they afforded me, for the friendship and for the great food! Although I am not very partial to crawling around caves due to things that have happened in the past, Brad and Chelsea let me take my time to warm up to the idea of venturing beyond the entrance. To say the least it has been a learning experience and one that I will never forget!

I like most of who have read the Thread starter and followed all of the posts, was in awe of the possibility of a grand score (i.e. buried treasure) but under the misconception that the cave was/is much larger due to the pics posted. This misconception of the size of the cave was due to not really picking up on some of Brad's postings about what little space (i.e. roof to floor and wall to wall) there is to move around while duck walking in the first 40 yards or so, then crawling into and through what Brad appropiately calls the dugout (spot where someone dug out a portion of a mud wall a very long time ago to accomodate crawling through)(he also refers to it in the post with the latest pics as the mud wall). From viewing the pics, I never dreamed that crawling through to just beyond the dugout, would my' butt be scraping the roof of the cave! This is the area where I could go no further due to my' pelvis being out of place which causes extreme pain in my' left butt area and lower back. I could not draw my' left leg up to help push me along without severe pain. Although it took awhile, I was able to skirm and roll around and get back through the dugout to where I could sit bent over on a rock shelf along the stream.

After the long ride on the four wheeler, a treacherous downhill walk, slip and slide down one ridge to the bottom of the hollow, we then pawed and clawed our way up another ridge to the cave. After standing and sitting around discussing the cave, the many little holes (some of which contained frogs and lizards), the other possible entrance to a cave and them (Brad and Chelsea) giving me time to aclimate myself to the environment and to the thoughts of going any further, we finally pressed on after about 10 minutes had passed. We made our way into the recess of the cave at a slow stooping walk, then the duck walking started at about 30 yards or so into the cave. Just after this, at about 40 yards or so into the cave, is where we saw the first evidence that someone had been in the cave recently. They had used an entrenching tool or small mattock like digger to dig into the whitish covered mounds of dirt (actually dried mud) that almost had the appearance of whitish colored rock masses. Once I saw the diggings, it was pretty clear to me that whoever had entered the cave since Brad's last visit two weeks prior, had dug into the dirt mounds to see what their' true composition was and found that they were not whitish in color all the way through. Based on what I had seen in the pics that Brad had posted and others that Brad showed me Sunday morning before we traveled to the cave, I would have done the exact same thing! Due to the darkness in the cave, I could not see the expression on Brad's face when we discovered this but I could tell by the sound in his' voice and words, that the wind had been knocked out of him! To think that only a very few folks even knew that the cave even existed or it's whereabouts, then to find out that someone had not only found and entered it but also had been digging in it's interior, must have felt like a betrayal and also desecration of the cave to Brad. At least, whoever it was that had entered the cave recently, they did not tamper with or destroy the etchings in the hardened mud (*)! Now this is where I differ with Brad's statement in his last post "Whoever it was did NOT TOUCH THE ETCHING and/or make it that far."! The etchings are just past the dugout area in the mud wall and before Chelsea crawled though this spot, I could clearly see where someone's shoes had left skid marks due to slipping as they tried to get through and across this dug out spot in the wall which has a slight rise in it. Therefore, I trully believe that the person or persons did make it through the dugout in the mud wall but how far past, we don't know. I am sure that Brad, in spite of my warnings, will venture back into the cave beyond this point and may discover evidence of how far this person or these persons made it back into the cave. Well, after Brad and Chelsea took quite a few pics of the etchings, Brad went back for the metal detector, shovel and small mattock. We metal detected the depression before and the area around the dug out in the wall and quite a few areas on our way back to the entrance of the cave but found nothing. It was very disheartening to say the least!

I don't plant to re-enter the cave as I know quite a bit about geology and rock formations and advised both Brad and Chelsea that the cave is pretty much a Limestone cave with possibly an underlament of Granite. Also, I advised them that the mud walls were formed from mud and water flowing heavily through the cave and the mud was pushed up almost to the cave walls, then it dried and was somewhat hardened and covered by Lime calcification drippings from the ceilings which colored it the whitish color. Considering that besides the stream flowing through the cave, another stream spills off and over the entrance of the cave, it is highly likely that the stream above the cave itself, may be flowing through rock formations only inches or a foot above portions of the cave's ceiling thus the drippage and Lime calcifications in some areas but dry in other areas. I advised Brad, that although the cave may have been around a long time in it's current state, eventually the water from above will erode enough of the ceilings to cause them to collapse. God forbid if Brad, Chelsea or even the trespassers are in the cave when this happens and I am sure it will happen! Maybe not anytime soon but someday it will!

Now, as far as the etchings are concerned and as Brad has already asked for help with. We could sure use some help in decipering the etchings! We both believe that they have a significant meaning but what that meaning is, we don't know! Besides the etching of what may be a tree or the branches of a creek and what almost looks like the letters "H", "L" and "R" which may or may not be letters at all, it appears that there are several more etchings less identifiable scattered amongst the etchings we noted. When all of these are deciphered and put together, they may paint a picture of some going-ons by early Native American Indians or maybe even a map per see to a hidden treasure. So, if anyone has any ideas or knowledge to the meanings of the noted and less identifiable etchings, please chime in as we need your help! I have posted some of the edited pics (enlarged, brightened and sharpened images) below, so please check them out carefully, especially CavePic#7 through Cavepic#11 (just move the cursor over the pics with your' mouse and it will show you the number), then left click on it to enlargen it, then click it again and it will open in another window even larger.

Thanks!


Frank

 

[huntsman53]

Think there has been a lurker on this thread that may have put two and two together and found the cave. You'd be surprised how people can pull info off of just a picture (if it's geo-tagged) or can find where you are posting from (IP address) and start to put the pieces together. There is another thread that has had my attention just as this has,
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/today-s-finds/355763-does-coral-beep-yes-when-its-full-coins.html
He has made what could be a fantastic find and has already had someone hanging out around outside his house and try to follow him! Keep checking your 6 when you are out there. Is this private property? If so then whoever the "muggle" is that is on his/her own quest could be cited/arrested for tresspassing or more. Be careful man.....I have no doubt that there are many persons on this site who just look, never post and wait for people to post their finds/sites and go there themselves. Be careful in the future if you ever use any imagery from Google Earth and make sure to remove the navigation/lat long info on the bottom of pictures. Also, I'd advise you and Frank not to post any future "timelines" regarding your comings and goings. Makes it too easy for them and they will know when it's safe to go out there.

Sorry that happened man. Really sucks when you are all excited about something like this and go and find something like that, it just takes the wind out of your sails. Makes you feel cheated somewhat.

To the person who went and spoiled the party (if you ARE in fact reading here). You suck. If you live in the area and wanted to get involved, you could have contacted the OP and offered assistance but YOU chose to go on your own and try and beat someone else to some "score" you think may be there. If you DID find something where you dug, then we can add theft to the trespass charges. Karma dude, you will get yours someday for this sneaky, cowardly act. Maybe you can go dig a nice piece of old, live unstable ordnance next time you go "snipe" someone else's hunt.

DocBeav,

You just wrote about and stated the exact same thing I relayed to Brad over the phone while I was on my way home! Due this travesty and BVI Hunter's situation, I believe that some folks on these forums or lurkers or both are using information leaked here to their advantage. It is possible that one occurrence could be just mere coincidence but two occurrences and possibly more, then what you and I have wrote, may just be true! Considering the possibility of such trespasses of not only other member's trust but also on their' hard found hot spots and possible finds, it would behove all of us, to delete our locations or any personal information that would lead someone to our' doors and no longer provide any information in a Thread or posting, no matter how little it is, that might help someone locate our' hot spots! Hopefully there will be lots of members that read this post and yours' as well but in the meantime, maybe we should diplomatically put the word out.


Frank

 

[JeromeAz]

I agree with Doc. Pretty interest how all those years you've never seen signs of anybody being there then you start this post and someone shows up and starts digging. If I came across a cave I would explore it first then look for whatever might be hid or buried in there. You already did the exploring for them so all they had to do was dig. Is it possible they were still in there, heard you coming and hid farther back in the cave or in the bobcat cavern?

 

[Limitool]

"Whoever it was did NOT TOUCH THE ETCHING and/or make it that far."! Yea Frank.... I'll back off that comment (some). Your right. Remember I went around "Horseshoe Bend" and you and Chelsea crawled over to meet me at same spot of etching. But I will stick to claim the etching's were not touched or changed. Anything newly etched into the mud really sticks out as NEW. You know what I mean by that... that's how you could tell someone had pushed through before you to that point. And when I viewed it again Sunday nothing had changed... especially the lines on the far left.

Something else here "stands out" concerning the etching. The mound of mud used to carve them into looks like it's been squared up or reshaped at one time into its present shape. There are no other natural mounds like this one. There is even room/space behind the mound which can be viewed when there. The actually cave wall is behind the mound. To me, I actually believe the mound was manmade and shaped into its present form. It appears that as the mound dried some its own weight broke it up into 3 separate pieces because it was not compacted naturally. Nowhere else has the mud when formed naturally broke up into separate pieces as this mound has done. In fact there are NO MOUNDS around anywhere close to this shape.

If ANYONE has a concrete idea what these etching ARE please PM me or if your "like me guessing" feel free to post.

 

[okla. prospector]

I'm sorry guys, that sucks! I know there are some bad people out there but you never think it will happen to you. I'm new to this site and have loved it so far, but now it makes me rethink anything I post. I have been following this forum from the beginning and so hoping to see pics of you guys coming out with some sort of treasure. Now that you had some SOB sneak in before you and dig just sucks! It was like we were all going along with you on your adventure. I think it's has taking a little wind out of all are sails. But on the good side you made some new friends and some great memories to look back on that no one can take from you. I still hope that you can find something deeper in the cave. To bad you didn't have that game camera set up and would have got them on film. You may set one up in a tree looking down so they can't see it. Thanks for sharing your adventure with us.

Ok prospector

 

[DocBeav]

By any chance to the lines on picture #10 match up with any rivers/valleys in the area? Could be part of a map as Frank had said if they do. Just a thought.

 

[Limitool]

I'm sorry guys, that sucks! I know there are some bad people out there but you never think it will happen to you. I'm new to this site and have loved it so far, but now it makes me rethink anything I post. I have been following this forum from the beginning and so hoping to see pics of you guys coming out with some sort of treasure. Now that you had some SOB sneak in before you and dig just sucks! It was like we were all going along with you on your adventure. I think it's has taking a little wind out of all are sails. But on the good side you made some new friends and some great memories to look back on that no one can take from you. I still hope that you can find something deeper in the cave. To bad you didn't have that game camera set up and would have got them on film. You may set one up in a tree looking down so they can't see it. Thanks for sharing your adventure with us.

Ok prospector

We really don't know if they found anything where they dug... but it sure was obvious someone had dug in a few spots. And my real problem is that if they did that (dug) it means they looked everywhere as we did in all the hiding spots up to at least where they dug and probably further. My daughter and I never utilized the glo-sticks because we had to go about 20-30 yards further where they were needed. We didn't because we still had to metal detect a lot of hostile area up to the point where we were already. I'd sure like to know what that etched mound is about. Thank you very much for your interest and everybody who encouraged us... stay tuned!... Brad

 

[Limitool]

By any chance to the lines on picture #10 match up with any rivers/valleys in the area? Could be part of a map as Frank had said if they do. Just a thought.

DocBeav.... ?? Not that I recognize. Great job on post #151. Frank very well might be right. I truly hope someone will know someone who knows about this areas native Indiana signs.

As Frank can attest too.... If you were on my pool deck and I pointed to the remote wooded area where the cave is you'd have a HELL OF A TIME finding it. I truly believe someone got the GPS coordinates from the group in Nashville and went directly to it. Finding my full name, my home will NOT lead you to this cave anytime soon. I did make mistakes... but I never dreamed this would happen.

 

[huntsman53]

"Whoever it was did NOT TOUCH THE ETCHING and/or make it that far."! Yea Frank.... I'll back off that comment (some). Your right. Remember I went around "Horseshoe Bend" and you and Chelsea crawled over to meet me at same spot of etching. But I will stick to claim the etching's were not touched or changed. Anything newly etched into the mud really sticks out as NEW. You know what I mean by that... that's how you could tell someone had pushed through before you to that point. And when I viewed it again Sunday nothing had changed... especially the lines on the far left.

Something else here "stands out" concerning the etching. The mound of mud used to carve them into looks like it's been squared up or reshaped at one time into its present shape. There are no other natural mounds like this one. There is even room/space behind the mound which can be viewed when there. The actually cave wall is behind the mound. To me, I actually believe the mound was manmade and shaped into its present form. It appears that as the mound dried some its own weight broke it up into 3 separate pieces because it was not compacted naturally. Nowhere else has the mud when formed naturally broke up into separate pieces as this mound has done. In fact there are NO MOUNDS around anywhere close to this shape.

If ANYONE has a concrete idea what these etching ARE please PM me or if your "like me guessing" feel free to post.

Brad,

I hope my' statement did not upset you in any way! When you crawled around the Horseshoe Bend in the cave and asked if we could tell if anyone had crawled through the dugout area of thw wall, Chelsea said no but I tried to relay to you that I saw skid and slide marks from someone's shoes (not our' shoes) on the slight upslopes going up and into the dugout portion of the mud wall (**). However, you may not have really heard me say this or it did not register with you as you were well around the other side when I said it and you were clearly already upset that someone else had been in the cave! You are totally correct in the statement "Whoever it was did NOT TOUCH THE ETCHING" as I could clearly see that from my' view of the etchings and also from the pics. (**) I have provided an edited pic below of the dugout area in the wall which was taken in an attempt to show the skid and slide marks and also to show the smallness of this area while Chelsea was crawling through. I am sorry that the original came out so dark and out of focus but when I took it, I forgot to open the flash on my' FujiFilm Digital Camera!

As DocBeav stated, it appears that there is more to the etchings that are somewhat covered up by the (what I think is) molded Lime calcification on the lower two-fifths of the mud wall or block. Also, I think that you are correct that the mud wall or block had been reshaped when the etchings were made and the smaller block on the left with the tree, branches of a creek or possibly even road branches (i.e. if the etchings were made later after roads were carved out by use or built for use) was separated from the larger block as they may tell two parts of a mystery or story. Also, since they (the two portions of the etchings wall) stand alone away from other portions of the mud walls, this had to have been done so that they would stand out for someone to notice or find!


Frank