The very FIRST articles ever published about the Lost Dutchmans mine

[Oroblanco]

The very FIRST articles ever published about the Lost Dutchman's mine

Hola amigos;

I am attaching a PDF file to this post which has the first two articles penned by Pierpont C. Bicknell about the Lost Dutchman's gold mine. It becomes obvious that he had interviewed Julia Thomas and includes information from her, along with other details that later show up in numerous books and articles like the "two room stone house in a cave" and the "imaginary circle" five miles in diameter, centered on Weaver's Needle. I am starting this in a new thread so as not to derail other discussions, and for those whom do not have these earliest published accounts of the Lost Dutchman's mine.

Any comments etc are welcome, thanks in advance.

Oroblanco



PS you will need a program that can open PDF files to read the attached file, if you do not have such a program it is easy to find a free one online just Google it.

 

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[Oroblanco]

I believe this article "The Most Uncanny Spot on Earth" is also penned by Bicknell, although not signed by him most newspaper articles do not include the names of the authors.

The San Francisco call. (San Francisco [Calif.]) 1895-1913, July 26, 1896, Page 18, Image 18 « Chronicling America « Library of Congress

 

[Oroblanco]

This is an article reporting on a Lost Dutchman mine "found" and opened up, circa 1920
Arizona republican. (Phoenix, Ariz.) 1890-1930, August 30, 1920, Page PAGE THREE, Image 3 « Chronicling America « Library of Congress

John Chuning reports having found the Lost Dutchman mine, circa 1901
Arizona republican. (Phoenix, Ariz.) 1890-1930, December 11, 1901, Page 7, Image 7 « Chronicling America « Library of Congress

Charlie Wood reports that another prospector also found the Lost Dutchman in 1901, however at Four Peaks;


G. Petrasch and partners heading into Superstitions to find the Lost Dutchman's mine, along with a couple of other variants of the story including one that it is located in the space between the Four Peaks:
Arizona republican. (Phoenix, Ariz.) 1890-1930, June 19, 1911, Image 1 « Chronicling America « Library of Congress

"Scotty" found the Lost Dutchman's mine, east of Goldfield; article also confirms that the Dutchman had "babbled" about gold in his dying breaths:
Bisbee daily review. (Bisbee, Ariz.) 1901-1971, October 23, 1914, Image 1 « Chronicling America « Library of Congress

More to follow; mainly this thread is intended for new treasure hunters to provide some of the earliest available sources on the LDM legend. As with all lost mine or treasure stories, the tale evolved as it matured, until today we have a fully developed story fit for a Hollywood screenplay. In fact the story HAS been made into a movie, "Lust for Gold" starring Glenn Ford as the Dutchman, which is pretty far from accurate but otherwise interesting.

Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

Here is an old post from Gregory Davis:

"Gentleman; I do not recall which post it was in but someone was recently inquiring about the origin of the story pertaining to Waltz and Wiser meeting Peralta in Mexico. May I suggest for those who want a STARTING PLACE to research this story try the following newspaper article. Arizona Silver Belt (Miami, Arizona) Daily; October 24, l924. Page 3, Cols. 1-7. Lost Mines of Arizona, The Lost Dutchman Mine by Charles M. Clark, President of the Arizona Pioneers' Association (Now the Arizona Historical Society in Tucson, Arizona). Also of interest might be this additional article mentioning a trip by Andrew and Jacob Starrar into Mexico in the mid 1860's. As you may recall, Andrew and Jacob were neighbors of Waltz. Early oral history being passed down by the old timers can sometimes get distorted. I don't know for sure but there may be a connection between the two stories. Who knows? You make your own judgment. Arizona Daily Gazette, (Phoenix, Arizona), March 21, l893. Page 5, Col. 2.; Another Star Eclipsed."

I believe he probably has the article and perhaps could be convinced to post it here.

Good topic.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Roy,

Here is an old post from Gregory Davis:

"Gentleman; I do not recall which post it was in but someone was recently inquiring about the origin of the story pertaining to Waltz and Wiser meeting Peralta in Mexico. May I suggest for those who want a STARTING PLACE to research this story try the following newspaper article. Arizona Silver Belt (Miami, Arizona) Daily; October 24, l924. Page 3, Cols. 1-7. Lost Mines of Arizona, The Lost Dutchman Mine by Charles M. Clark, President of the Arizona Pioneers' Association (Now the Arizona Historical Society in Tucson, Arizona). Also of interest might be this additional article mentioning a trip by Andrew and Jacob Starrar into Mexico in the mid 1860's. As you may recall, Andrew and Jacob were neighbors of Waltz. Early oral history being passed down by the old timers can sometimes get distorted. I don't know for sure but there may be a connection between the two stories. Who knows? You make your own judgment. Arizona Daily Gazette, (Phoenix, Arizona), March 21, l893. Page 5, Col. 2.; Another Star Eclipsed."

I believe he probably has the article and perhaps could be convinced to post it here.

Good topic.

Take care,

Joe

I hope so! Thanks for the tip, will see if I can locate them as well.

I think this article predates that 1924 article:

The San Francisco call. (San Francisco [Calif.]) 1895-1913, June 08, 1902, Image 11 « Chronicling America « Library of Congress

author is Lloyd Damron but the story is remarkably similar to Bicknell's and several other early versions.

 

[timemachine]

I was fortunate enough to hike Weaver's Needle late this summer and found the view to be a treasure. Hope you all find what you are looking for, I did...

 

[Hal Croves]

Not among the first, but early and interesting: Bisbee daily review. (Bisbee, Ariz.) 1901-1971, January 28, 1912, SECTION TWO, Page PAGE FOUR, Image 12 « Chronicling America « Library of Congress

 

[hooch]

I find all these old stories amazing, half say he was a recluse, never left his house and only went into Phoenix twice a year, and wouldn't look people in the eye. The others say he was this mountaineering miner who constantly eluded pirates with his constant trips to the supes and flamboyantly spent his riches in Phoenix while people gazed at him like a prince with his wealth. So which was it? From everything I've read, the newspapers confusing the woman as Thomas with Ruth, wether she was white or black, to a candle box that somehow made its way to under the woman's bed from a flood in which Jacob lied, to them finding nothing at all, gold under the bed or in what was left of his house or yard. All this seems like one big mixed wives tale. If waltz was hanging in a tree from a flood, where did the box of good come from under Julia's bed? If everyone said he was a chicken farmer that never left the house, where do the stories of this party going gold spending prince amongst town come from? Ive been following the Dutchman for over 20 years now, been in just about every desert surrounding Phoenix and still to this day cannot find any truth to anything that occurred in this craphole in the mid to late 1800s. Seems to me the real gold in this story is all the BS made up to keep this so called legend alive, with the hundreds of thousands of people to have hiked, camped and prospected in the supes to this day, if anything existed out here it would have already been national news. "My favorite, "Al Seiber once followed the Dutchman to the superstitions but lost him in a blinding snowstorm," you gotta wear hip waders just so you don't step in the Dutchman's bullshit.

 

[Oroblanco]

I find all these old stories amazing, half say he was a recluse, never left his house and only went into Phoenix twice a year, and wouldn't look people in the eye. The others say he was this mountaineering miner who constantly eluded pirates with his constant trips to the supes and flamboyantly spent his riches in Phoenix while people gazed at him like a prince with his wealth. So which was it? From everything I've read, the newspapers confusing the woman as Thomas with Ruth, wether she was white or black, to a candle box that somehow made its way to under the woman's bed from a flood in which Jacob lied, to them finding nothing at all, gold under the bed or in what was left of his house or yard. All this seems like one big mixed wives tale. If waltz was hanging in a tree from a flood, where did the box of good come from under Julia's bed? If everyone said he was a chicken farmer that never left the house, where do the stories of this party going gold spending prince amongst town come from? Ive been following the Dutchman for over 20 years now, been in just about every desert surrounding Phoenix and still to this day cannot find any truth to anything that occurred in this craphole in the mid to late 1800s. Seems to me the real gold in this story is all the BS made up to keep this so called legend alive, with the hundreds of thousands of people to have hiked, camped and prospected in the supes to this day, if anything existed out here it would have already been national news. "My favorite, "Al Seiber once followed the Dutchman to the superstitions but lost him in a blinding snowstorm," you gotta wear hip waders just so you don't step in the Dutchman's bullshit.

So stay home Hooch, no one is going to force you to go search for the lost Dutchman's mine.

 

[hooch]

True that

 

[gollum]

I find all these old stories amazing, half say he was a recluse, never left his house and only went into Phoenix twice a year, and wouldn't look people in the eye. The others say he was this mountaineering miner who constantly eluded pirates with his constant trips to the supes and flamboyantly spent his riches in Phoenix while people gazed at him like a prince with his wealth. So which was it? From everything I've read, the newspapers confusing the woman as Thomas with Ruth, wether she was white or black, to a candle box that somehow made its way to under the woman's bed from a flood in which Jacob lied, to them finding nothing at all, gold under the bed or in what was left of his house or yard. All this seems like one big mixed wives tale. If waltz was hanging in a tree from a flood, where did the box of good come from under Julia's bed? If everyone said he was a chicken farmer that never left the house, where do the stories of this party going gold spending prince amongst town come from? Ive been following the Dutchman for over 20 years now, been in just about every desert surrounding Phoenix and still to this day cannot find any truth to anything that occurred in this craphole in the mid to late 1800s. Seems to me the real gold in this story is all the BS made up to keep this so called legend alive, with the hundreds of thousands of people to have hiked, camped and prospected in the supes to this day, if anything existed out here it would have already been national news. "My favorite, "Al Seiber once followed the Dutchman to the superstitions but lost him in a blinding snowstorm," you gotta wear hip waders just so you don't step in the Dutchman's bullshit.

Hooch,

You have repeated the same thing ad nauseum. Why do you continue to post about something you neither believe exists, nor believe ever existed? I don't know where you get your information, but a great deal of his life is authenticated, but I won't try to convince otherwise.

Enjoy - Mike

 

[azdave35]

Hooch,

You have repeated the same thing ad nauseum. Why do you continue to post about something you neither believe exists, nor believe ever existed? I don't know where you get your information, but a great deal of his life is authenticated, but I won't try to convince otherwise.

Enjoy - Mike

there is plenty of proof that jacob waltz existed...brownie holmes's dad knew waltz..ted cox's dad knew him also...not to mention rhiney...no doubt there was a jacob waltz...and no doubt he had a box of very high grade ore under his bed..now whether he had a mine or not is where the controversy comes into play...i dont think we will ever know that for sure

 

[gollum]

there is plenty of proof that jacob waltz existed...brownie holmes's dad knew waltz..ted cox's dad knew him also...not to mention rhiney...no doubt there was a jacob waltz...and no doubt he had a box of very high grade ore under his bed..now whether he had a mine or not is where the controversy comes into play...i dont think we will ever know that for sure

I have said it a million times; the person who will likely find the LDM will be some Birkenstock and Patchouli wearing hippie out for a nature hike, that will accidentally fall through the rotten timbers to become a famous lost mine hunter! HAHAHA

Mike

 

[AbTexEx]

I have said it a million times; the person who will likely find the LDM will be some Birkenstock and Patchouli wearing hippie out for a nature hike, that will accidentally fall through the rotten timbers to become a famous lost mine hunter! HAHAHA

Mike

HEY WATCH IT! I kinda resemble that.


AJones

 

[hooch]

Hooch,

You have repeated the same thing ad nauseum. Why do you continue to post about something you neither believe exists, nor believe ever existed? I don't know where you get your information, but a great deal of his life is authenticated, but I won't try to convince otherwise.

Enjoy - Mike

So why all the misinterpreted newspaper articles

 

[Oroblanco]

So why all the misinterpreted newspaper articles

The purpose is to try to get at the earliest sources on the LDM. I contend that the earliest sources are generally the most reliable, for being closest (in time) to the events/people. Less chance for errors and deliberate falsehoods to have gotten into the mix. Like that game of telephone in school days, each time it gets re-told, mistakes creep in. Hence why not try to assemble the earliest possible sources and then we can compare with the later versions.

Unfortunately one of the earliest if not the earliest published source on the LDM is Pierpont C. Bicknell, a man that had no hesitation to mix together different stories, perhaps thinking they are the same thing, promoting the Superstition mountains being his main goal. Among the items he seems to have invented were a "natural battery" that gave him a shock while camped on top of Superstition mountain (no one has ever reported finding this again) or the giant rocks that swing out like doors late at night in the canyons.

This thread is for that function, not really to try to convince anyone it is real or false.

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

"....or the giant rocks that swing out like doors late at night in the canyons."


While not a printed story, this was Dale Howard's story:

He and a friend were exploring the area on the south side of Black Top Mesa. While working their way around the side of the mesa, they accidently fell/pushed (?) against a large boulder. The boulder moved and they found that it could be easily pushed aside....like swinging open a door. The boulder hid the entrance of a cave. In the entrance they found a small pile of rocks, which later proved to be rich ore.

They made a torch of what was available and tried to go into the cave. There was a tremendous draft in the cave which continually put out the flame of their torch. They assumed there was another entrance somewhere, causing the draft. They took out the ore and pushed the boulder closed. They then made a map of their find. In describing how to get to their find they decided to reverse some of the directions in case someone else somehow got their map. Only Dale and his friend would be able to use the map to find the location.

Long story short, it was many years before Dale returned to find the cave. His friend died and WWII and "life" intervened during those years. When Dale finally tried to use the map and return to the cave, he couldn't remember which directions they changed. He spent years working his way around the south end of the Mesa trying to dynamite an opening.

That's the story I heard from my Uncle Chuck, Ernie Provence and Dale. I tried to help Dale find that entrance, but we never did. I never saw his map.

Everyone I heard that story from is long since dead.

Take care,

Joe

 

[gollum]

So I guess I'll revive this old-a$$ed thread.

Roy posted the transcripts of Bicknell's first two articles regarding the Lost Dutchman Mine. Here are the two actual articles:

Arizona Weekly Citizen
Saturday 24 November 1894:



San Francisco Chronicle
Sunday 13 January 1895:



Enjoy,

Mike

 

[audigger53]

Hey Gollum and Oro, has anyone tried tracking down the AZ State Hyway monument that used to be on US Rt. 60 between Apache Junction and Florence Junction? I know it was still there in 1964, before they changed it from a 2 lane to 4 lane road. It stated "This is where the Dutchman would leave the Stag to go to his mine." It has a metal stamp out of a Prospector with a beard leading a Burro. It had a pull out for peole to read it and wee used the pull out to eat lunch there on the way up to Williams AFB, where my dad would take my mom for the Doctor visits. Just another landmark that time has removed.LOL

 

[azdave35]

Hey Gollum and Oro, has anyone tried tracking down the AZ State Hyway monument that used to be on US Rt. 60 between Apache Junction and Florence Junction? I know it was still there in 1964, before they changed it from a 2 lane to 4 lane road. It stated "This is where the Dutchman would leave the Stag to go to his mine." It has a metal stamp out of a Prospector with a beard leading a Burro. It had a pull out for peole to read it and wee used the pull out to eat lunch there on the way up to Williams AFB, where my dad would take my mom for the Doctor visits. Just another landmark that time has removed.LOL

do you remember approximately where it was?