LDM why you cant get it ! MAP #10

[markmar]

somehiker

The map is in a larger scale than your picture . The peak without top is a metaphor .
The only mountain close to the mine without top , is Black Top Mesa .
In the map the North is to the left .


Marius

 

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[JackH]

a work in progress......

Lee Paul included the same paragraph in his article here....Dutchman's Lost Mine

Regards:SH.

Thank You "somehiker."

Lee Paul's Story "The Dutchman's Lost Gold Mine" is one of the
first reads I had a few years ago that added intrigue to delve further
into the Subject.

I have not avoided your entry here, but just have not figured how
I was going to approach it.

Lee Paul, as I would have done placed a copyright on his work here.

Fair use is a limitation and exception to the exclusive right granted by copyright law to the author of a creative work. In United States copyright law, fair use is a doctrine that permits limited use of copyrighted material without acquiring permission from the rights holders. Examples of fair use include commentary, search engines, criticism, news reporting, research, teaching, library archiving and scholarship.

That being said:

There are 71 paragraph's, one being a sentence (#36) & a list of 13 clues.

 

[somehiker]

And so,it begs the question.
Who was the original author, Lee Paul or (as Joe pointed out) Robert Joseph Allen ?
And what was their source for the information ?
It's not really important to me, since I havn't found anything on the ground to suggest a link between the Stone Maps and the LDM .
Or any link to the Peraltas .
But it might be to others .
I have however ,read most of what has been published about the LDM . And follow what others take the time to write.
I'm also aware of the many clues and maps ,some considered better than all the rest.
I guess if I'm gonna be out there anyway, I may as well keep my eyes open and camera ready.
Never know when ya might stumble upon a rusty old frying pan with a couple of holes punched in the bottom.

Regards:SH.

 

[JackH]

Paragraph #38

Includes:
By the late 1880's Jacob Waltz was so advanced in age that
protecting his Mine from interlopers was hard for him to do.
When he was eighty years old in 1890, he decided to hide the
mine. He is said to have enlarged the shaft to-and-one-half
feet all around and then left a ledge about six feet deep at the
entrance of the Mine. He then sawed timbers the right length
to fit the ledge, hauled them to the Mine, and worked all winter
laying in "a solid crisscrossed pattern of those ironwood logs"
up to a depth of about two feet from the top. He next filled
the hole with dirt and then topped it with stones from the
surrounding area. When he was finished, he bragged " you
could drive a pack train over the entrance to the Mine and
never know it was there."

Response:
I do Not doubt "Waltz" said that, but I Do doubt he ever did
that, for more than enough reasons.

Paragraph #39

Includes:
He owned a simple adobe house on a small farm at the edge of
the Salt River, about a mile from the outskirts (southeast of
Phoenix), with a few chickens and meager comforts.

Response:
"Waltz" by the information that has passed before me, was about
5 miles from "Red Mountain" when he died. And rarely lived more
than 10 miles once he found the Mine. Often closest to "Red Mountain."

Paragraph #42

Includes:
"the (northwest corner) of the Superstition Mountains. The Key
is a stripped paloverde tree with one limb left on, a pointing arm.
It points away from the rock, about halfway from between it
and the rock, and 200 yards to the east. Take the trail in. I
left a number of clues." Then, he died.

Response:
First, I would like to Thank Those Few Pillars of Information on
this "Subject". I Truly Mean This, for sharing with us in their
exchanges in my "LDM" threads, that the Superstition's included
"Red Mountain" at one time. And that time was "Waltz's Time."

"Red Mountain" is in the (Northwest area) of the Superstition
Mountain's back in the Day, was it Not ? And that is a Hell of a long
way from Weavers Needle !


Jack

 

[JackH]

If I were the "Dutchman", where would my cache be ?

"The (northwest corner) of the Superstition Mountains. The Key
is a stripped palo verde tree with one limb left on, a pointing arm.
It points away from the rock, about halfway from between it
and the rock, and 200 yards to the east. Take the trail in. I
left a number of clues." Then, he died.

It appears we are all a little too late !

 

[JackH]

Heavy equipment traces on Reservation Land.......

Seems a few people just want pictures and No explanation as to
what I am offering. There are other interested readers who need
a little help, and I'm no exception.

With nearly 3100 hits to date, I would think I'm doing something right.
(But Not Everything.)

It appears a lot of expense was invested in moving the dirt around
the small hill in question. This is based on the scattered tires around
the abandoned pad. You should also notice the dirt was brought
back to the pad and sifted thru, with small piles on the perimeter
of the pad. There is an additional site near the pad, but if you have
investigated what I have offered using your own tools on the Real
site you may get my Point.

1) Not just anyone can move dirt around a Reservation. Even if
you are a Tribe member, you have to answer to someone.

2) Why were they looking at the Real site (small hill) in the first place?
I'll bet it wasn't just because of the clues "Waltz" gave on his death
bed.

Lastly, they started moving dirt on the small hill many years ago.

Jack

 

[JackH]

maybe I've got this thing all wrong ?.......

just callin' it as I see it............

 

[markmar]

Hi jack

In the Dutchman clue , you wrote " Take the trail in " . In what ?
To my opinion there start a canyon .


Marius

 

[JackH]

Hi jack

In the Dutchman clue , you wrote " Take the trail in " . In what ?
To my opinion there start a canyon .


Marius

Thank You Marius,

A good Question ! I am assuming you are not thinking of a
Humm-V or helicopter for an answer.

I would think "Waltz" was delusional, he was dying, a thousand
thoughts going through his mind. Fleeting thoughts, and I
would not take the clues given on his death bed in the order
they were given.

The "Trail In", is only known by "Waltz." A "Trail" that "Waltz"
made leaving clues, and may not be there today. The only other
"Trail" not made by him might be Peralta's or an arroyo/canyon.

1) "Waltz" is Not giving up his Mine. He directing those near him to
his "Cache."

2) "Waltz" never considered the "Mine" his, that is why he never
filed a Claim on it.

3) I believe "Waltz" had a Religious experience when he found the
Mine.

4) He took from it, but knew who the "Rightful Owners" were. He
respected "Them" and wanted no one to take it from "Them."

I believe "Waltz" only turned in or kept the lesser quality ore of his
Hoard near him in his home. He learned from that mistake the first
time.

The Most Important Question of All !

There is Only One (1) Reason, that I can think of, as to Why ? the
(small hill) was heavily worked.

Unless I am corrected, the small hill has a name, "Little Buffalo,"
that I may use in reference down the "Trail"......

Jack

 

[markmar]

Well done Jack

You did a meticulous work . You have a clear image . I hope how I helped a little in this image .


Marius

 

[JackH]

Well done Jack

You did a meticulous work . You have a clear image . I hope how I helped a little in this image .


Marius

My friend Marius,

You were No Casper (the ghost) since you hooked on to these Threads.

It caused me to accelerate the investigation process, because I am an old man, that is quite a feat.

And, I was only kidding when I said I would pay you 100 euro's for every (Like) you give me !



Jack

 

[JackH]

an enterprise.........

buy a bucket of dirt or shoot your pistol.........

I approve of this enterprise........

with and explanation coming......

 

[H-2 CHARLIE]

I will always believe he was a nite watchman and stole a cart of high yeild ore and dumped it some where and there never was a gold mine .

 

[somehiker]

So where'd the gold come from in the first place, Charlie ?
Maybe a gold mine ?

 

[H-2 CHARLIE]

vulture mine 60 miles away

 

[somehiker]

"I will always believe he was a nite watchman and stole a cart of high yeild ore and dumped it some where and there never was a gold mine ."
60 miles is a long way to drag a cart fulla gold ore....especially in the dark.
You forgetting about Goldfield ?
There's a few who think that's where he mighta got it.

 

[markmar]

jackH

About " Like " . I just sing " That's the way ...Hmm...Hmm ...I like it...Hmm...Hmm " , and after click " Like " .

 

[sgtfda]

I agree Wayne. Ledges were uncovered by floods in the washes of the goldfield area. How the mine deposits were first located. It's on the path around to main mountain. You going to go around this or over it?

 

[somehiker]

The path of least resistance usually works for me, Frank.
Sometimes you find the darnedest things when you can spend more time looking, than looking out.
He might not of found his gold there, but it makes it more likely he could have found his own somewhere not too far away.
The same conditions that put the gold in Goldfield occurred at least two more times over a wide area of those mountains in the background.

 

[sgtfda]

Wayne on our last trip that was not the path of lest resistance.