JESUIT TREASURES - ARE THEY REAL?

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

Just thought I would check and see if anyone is following the historical aspects of my story. Can anyone tell me who Juan Compoy's father was?

Take care,

Joe

 

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[cactusjumper]

Roy,

No book.

Enough of my foolishness. Time to get back to the real legends. For most of my story, I was just flying by the seat of my pants. The point is, most legends of Jesuit treasures have much less verifiable history than my story did.

True, some of it was not well known, but anyone willing to do some serious digging, say sometime well after we are all dead, would have come up with enough truth to convince them there was something to the story.

By the way, Juan's father was Jose Compoy.

(Sorry about the mispelling of the Compoy name. Not a good idea for me to go from memory.)

Take care,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Greeting Cactusjumper, Cubfan and everyone,
Cactusjumper wrote

By the way, Juan's father was Jose Compoy.

Sheesh you have been too easy on us - I expected you would keep us twisting in the wind for a couple of days at least, and have let the cat out of the bag. Now I could say "Oh well I knew that" which would be a flat lie, I had NO idea who was Juan's father.

Your story has a few elements I recognized <Father Rojas and his illness for instance> but mostly it was new to me. I still think you ought to write up your life experiences and adventures though.

Cubfan - you know you are always welcome at our camp, and the fact you don't drink coffee just means more for me! You would probably learn more and better from one of our amigos here, but I could sure show what NOT to do! I very much look forward to meeting some time, and hopefully sooner rather than later.

No coffee - do you prefer tea? I always pack tea and like it myself, just curious what is your "camp" drink? Thank you in advance,

<Off-topic part>
Actually this reminds me, need to check out a few new items for camping like a cast aluminum dutch oven - anyone ever use one of these? Supposedly they are one-third the weight of cast iron, which would be nice but do they cook evenly, are they hard to clean etc the sales pitch never mentions this part. </end off topic part>
Roy ~Oroblanco

 

[somehiker]

"I was just flying by the seat of my pants"
Oh No.....now we're probly gonna hear the story about the "bathtub" Stearman and the cloudburst again.....
Way to go Joe

There are more than a few nuggets hidden in the gravel pile of historical literature that we all depend upon for our daily "fix" of "truth or fiction".
Find enough and you may be able to cast your own six foot "Resurrection" cross or life size likeness of Saint Francis Xavier in solid gold.

Metaphorically speaking of course.

Regards:SH

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

Never thought to turn my story into a career, although I could have gone on for quite awhile. I doubt anyone knew who Jose and Juan Compoy were, but that's the kind of obscure facts that give legends serious legs. The researcher chases down every minute detail and when they find that they are historically factual, it lends a little more weight to the "truth" of the story.

I ended it because I was enjoying myself just a bit too much. I can see where there are the roots of a pretty good fictional/historical novel in my story.

I would love to see someone come up with something about the Compoy's. They were real people, and have a brief history in the Superstitions.

Take care,

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

SH,

"metaphorically speaking of course."

Of course.

In a metaphorical manner, I was expressing myself metaphorically........for a number of posts there.

That sort of thing goes on here all the time.......I would guess.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Cactusjumper wrote

The point is, most legends of Jesuit treasures have much less verifiable history than my story did.

So by presenting a fictional tale, you contend that this is the case with MOST stories of Jesuit treasures. Sorry Joe but I still respectfully disagree, and can see that nothing I could say is going to change your view.

For our dear readers, if you do some research you will find there is much more than what we have posted here. Local historical societies often have holdings which you cannot find in libraries or online, often including private diaries of the pioneers for one example.

Good luck and good hunting Joe and everyone, I hope you have a happy holiday season and as always, that you find the treasures that you seek - even if you think they are all made up stories by treasure writers.
Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

good morning Ladies & Gentlemen: Joe you asked about a Campoy.

To the west of Vicam (Yaqui territory) there lives a family of that name. Their grandfather was extremely wealthy, even today they own a very modern, fairly large ranch with quite a bit of mechanized equipment. they asked me bring a metal detector to see if we could find his treasure that he had buried. Unfortunately the spot is exactly where they had been repairing the Farm equipment for generations, sooooo sigh.

It was officially 'claimed' from large land sales, and was buried in 15 gal drums

Futher investigation developed that he had inherited a large amount of gold and silver from some prior generation ?? From where or how

Curious, a coincidence or is there a connection with your Campoy?

Don Jose de la Mancha

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good moring some hiker mi friend and buddy: I know where I can borrow a fully 'aerobatic' Stearman from time to time.

Wanna go fly with me over the Supers, if and when it is free? snicker I promise to behave myself.

Oro hush, I don't have my fingers crossed, I am just scratching my back.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[somehiker]

Buenos días Don Jose:
Sure thing,so long as you agree to let me make the run down Fish Creek canyon.Been itchin to do that one for some time now.I doubt that anyone below would have a chance to read the numbers.....the 'narrows' oughta be a real hoot and the bridge at the bottom....well....you can take the video....

This guy does a darn good routine with a stocker though.Love the tailwheel draggin slips.

http://www.primashock.com/mohr/promovideo_02.wmv

Now I'm havin visions..hee hee..of packs of harleys motocrossin the mountainsides .
An they think their ear bustin drag pipes are loud.

Regards:SH

PS:we can blame Joe for takin us here and opening the hanger door.
...and this is a real sweetheart---no droolin!!
...note,the wings are up---and the wheels are down.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

SH, loved it. As for slipping in for a landing, that is the only way you can handle cross wind landings. In short fields I generally use the carrier technique, stick for airspeed, throttle for rate of climb or decent.

Empty, with that 985 P&W, I make my final approaches at 45-48 mph, then as I crossed the boundary at about 3 - 4 ft, chop the throttle and you down and stopped in about 40 meters.

Yes, I would love to cruise the Superstitions at extremely low altitude, but with a crop duster, they are allowed to fly below min.

I hated to pull that hamburger maker of a prop through by hand, I was always afraid of that sharp prop starting up just a few inches from my head.

I wonder if we couldn't wrangle a low level surveillance flight contract from the BLM to check for outlaws like CJ, Oro, and Dejuicy prowling around in there. The rest in here are honorable.

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. did I ever tell you of a hairy flight that I once made in a Stearman with no flight instruments working down Roosevelt lake in a summer Cumulus?? Remind me later. snicker.

 

[somehiker]

Min.-Shmin,you ain't no fun at all.Them spray pipes hangin out all over just slow ya down.
The hammerheads at the end of each pass can be a lotta fun,though

"p.s. did I ever tell you of a hairy flight that I once made in a Stearman with no flight instruments working down Roosevelt lake in a summer Cumulus?? Remind me later. snicker."

As I recollect,Don J,you did once or twice .

We should start a Hangertalk Thread sometime.Maybe others could join in whenever the weather or other circumstances has us grounded.I'd love to hear some of Greg's freightdoggin stories or more about Clay's co-ownership of another Ryan NYP,a later replica of the "Spirit of ST.Louis".

Regards:SH

 

[cactusjumper]

Don Jose,

"Joe you asked about a Campoy"

The name was Compoy, but you are right about it being quite a coincidence. If you throw in those 55-Gal. drums full of gold and silver, it's probably the same family.

Never a good idea to get too hung up on the spelling of Mexican names, or words for that matter.

By now, you should be looking at Juan Compoy (I believe he was around 9 when they were in the mountains) as the grandfather in the clan, if he's still alive. Should have known that you would be the one to come up with a connection, but do you know the rest of the story

Take care,

Joe

 

[somehiker]

Hi Joe:
I certainly cannot shed any light on the Compoy family but perhaps you may assist me in my quest for understanding one facet of so many Jesuit Treasure or Lost Spanish Mine tales.
Why is it that the treasure or lost mine always seems to be located in a sacred place,such as a native burial ground?
Would it be a reasonable conclusion that the Jesuits and Spanish miners had no respect for the desceased?
Or were they simply without superstition?
Were all the best mineral deposits located under cemeteries and burial mounds?
If someone were to find a legendary mine or Jesuit treasure,should he be checking his six for los brujos apachos?

Just wondrin:
Regards:SH

 

[pegleglooker]

Hi Joe:
I certainly cannot shed any light on the Compoy family but perhaps you may assist me in my quest for understanding one facet of so many Jesuit Treasure or Lost Spanish Mine tales.
Why is it that the treasure or lost mine always seems to be located in a sacred place,such as a native burial ground?
Would it be a reasonable conclusion that the Jesuits and Spanish miners had no respect for the desceased?
Or were they simply without superstition?
Were all the best mineral deposits located under cemeteries and burial mounds?
If someone were to find a legendary mine or Jesuit treasure,should he be checking his six for los brujos apachos?

Just wondrin:
Regards:SH

Maybe the Indians purposely put there dead on top of the mine to keep people away ?

PLL

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Evening Cactus: I see you lurking up there heheh. As for Campoy, other than what you have posted, none. However I will check at the first opportunity.


That file was from an old notebook of hot leads from the late 1950's I have several similar books, plus a thousand in my head, which are sometimes triggered from the conversation.

This will be Oro's & Beth's job, to bring them out, write them down, and catalogue them while drinking coffee around a campfire at Tayopa, with the ghosts of ancient Indians dancing among the flickering shadows, enhancing the mysterious and mystic effect that treasure stories always have.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[somehiker]

Ahoy Pegleg:
Now your thinkin like a swashbuckler...haaarrr.(that's pirate talk)

Nah,I thought about that for a bit.Might upset the Thunder God a tad,I suspect,parkin your kin's remains on top of his gold.Makes a great conductor for lightning bolts and every time he decided to kick up a fuss,the whole place would smell like a bbq.

Pirates,on the other hand,only needed to find a handy island shaped like a skull to hide their booty.A couple of diggers left in the hole made short work of filling it up.But you probably know that trick already.

Regards:SH

 

[Oroblanco]

Hola amigos,
For our readers to consider, <I realize that some of our friends here have very strong convictions against the whole proposition of Jesuit treasures and/or mines, so no offense to you - just adding more to the pot for the rest, those still un-decided> we have yet more testimony on the Jesuits mining activities in what is now Arizona.

Arizona is at once the oldest and youngest mining territory of the United States. Three hundred years ago before St Augustine Florida was settled the Jesuit fathers established the cross in the wilds of Arizona. They found as the antiquarian and archaeologist of to day may find ruins of pre historic houses pottery acequias or irrigating canals cave dwellings and evidences that a former civilization had there lived flourished and disappeared. The country then was as it continued for three centuries to be the home of the treacherous and cruel Apaches who waged an unrelenting warfare upon all who sought to acquire the rich mineral treasures confided to their care. Spanish records and traditions reveal the fact that the Jesuits mined the silver lodes of Arizona at intervals with good results though in their usual rude and indecisive manner.

<from The Bankers' magazine, and statistical register, Volume 32 Arizona and Silver Mining, George R Gibson April 1878 pp 813>

Considering that the Jesuit explorations of the northern frontiers reported a number of mineral discoveries, what could have "triggered" their keeping the same kind of discoveries and mines secret?

Most Arizona historians are familiar with the great discovery of silver, the "planchas de plata" which occurred in 1726,<or 1736, depending on source> resulting in a minor "silver rush" to the area of southern Arizona. Whom made this discovery? Here is what Hinton has to say

surprising spot a depth of a few varas masses of pure silver were found of a globular form and of one or two arrobas in weight. Several pieces were taken out weighing upward of twenty arrobas and one found by an inferior person attached to the Government of Guadalajara weighed 140 arrobas. Many persons amassed large sums whilst others though diligent and persevering found little or nothing For the security of this mass of treasure the commander of the Presidio of Altar sent troops who escorted the greater bulk of the silver to his headquarters whereupon this officer seized the treasure as being the property of the Crown. In vain the finders protested against this treat ment and appealed to the audience chamber at Guadalajara but for answer the authorities referred the matter to the Court at Madrid. At the end of seven years the king made the decision which was that the silver pertained to his royal patrimony and ordered that thenceforth the mines should be worked for his benefit. This decree together with the incessant attacks of the hostile Indians so discouraged the treasure hunters that the mines were abandoned as needs must be until these savages are exterminated.

Not all the priestly historians write so smoothly of this transaction which by the way is commented on in every work upon Mexican mines since written and published. The reader who should desire to see how deep in gall a Castilian may dip his pen on the same subject should peruse a work entitled Los Ocios Espanoles or the documents yet existing in the archives of Pimeria Alta written by Jesuit Fathers who were despoiled by this act of the King Curses loud strong and binding were showered upon the royal robber and thenceforth such discoveries were most carefully locked up in the breasts of the Fathers until at last the cream had been properly skimmed off This was the real beginning toward uncovering

<The Handbook to Arizona; its resources, history, towns, mines, ruins and ...By Richard Josiah Hinton, PAYOT UPHAM & CO SAN FRANCISCO AMERICAN NEWS CO NEW YORK 1878 , pp 195>

Hinton gets the date of the discovery wrong, but this is fairly common as few history books agree on the correct date. It makes sense that the Jesuits would be angry over the silver discovery being taken away from them, either by Spanish colonists or the authorities, and would explain why they would keep any other discoveries they intended to exploit, quiet. I also put the title of the work in bold to bring it to our readers attention, for perhaps someone may have access to this very manuscript? The title means 'The Idle Spanish' (my own rough translation, I welcome any corrections) and unfortunately there are a couple of Spanish-language publications with titles like it, but slightly different.

Wishing you all happy holidays,
Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

Hi Roy,

"Spanish records and traditions reveal the fact that the Jesuits mined the silver lodes of Arizona at intervals with good results though in their usual rude and indecisive manner.
<from The Bankers' magazine, and statistical register, Volume 32 Arizona and Silver Mining, George R Gibson April 1878 pp 813>"

The obvious question is: If Gibson could find these "Spanish records" in 1878, why is it that only "traditions" can be found today?

Thanks in advance,

Joe

 

[pegleglooker]

Hi Roy,

"Spanish records and traditions reveal the fact that the Jesuits mined the silver lodes of Arizona at intervals with good results though in their usual rude and indecisive manner.
<from The Bankers' magazine, and statistical register, Volume 32 Arizona and Silver Mining, George R Gibson April 1878 pp 813>"

The obvious question is: If Gibson could find these "Spanish records" in 1878, why is it that only "traditions" can be found today?

Thanks in advance,

Joe

The Jesuits must have destroyed them all!!!!!! < snicker >

PLL