You know what really chaps my.....

[Treasure_Hunter]

I don't know who made the statements that you are seeking links for. Don't know about al-qaeda but the US did arm the Afgans when fighting the Soviets. But it is pretty common knowledge. Don't know how you would trace those particular arms as there is an active black market in that area. That said, you can never win against tribal sects on their turf.

Soviet war in Afghanistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The insurgents received military training from the CIA in neighboring Pakistan and elsewhere in China, as well as[9] weapons and billions of dollars from the United States, United Kingdom, Saudi Arabia, and other countries.[3][4][5][9][24] The decade-long war resulted in millions of Afghans fleeing their country, mostly to Pakistan and Iran.

The Afghans had not attacked the US, they were fighting Russian occupation. Bin Laden was part of rebels in Afghan, but had never attacked us.

Al-qaeda attacked America on 9/11 and multiple times since. This is same Al-qaeda BO is arming.

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[pippinwhitepaws]

what a wonderful example of revisionist history..


http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/february/26/newsid_2516000/2516469.stm

 

[jerseyben]

what a wonderful example of revisionist history..


BBC ON THIS DAY | 26 | 1993: World Trade Center bomb terrorises New York

In the (recent) past I have provided links, citations, bulletproof logic, and other well thought out arguments. It has never been "enough" for you people. Even after I have provided the proof you demand, then I get attacked on a personal "Ad hominem" level. Recently I was told that I am a "thorn that needs to be plucked" and that I offer "nothing". So, I ask. Why waste my time?

 

[Chadeaux]

Still waiting on those links of another president providing aid to al-qaeda.

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Actually, I believe he is referring to Afghanistan in the early 1980's when we actually supplied weapons to what later became Al Qaeda ... and their leader, Osama Bin-Dead-For-A-While.

They were defending themselves from the Russians, so the U.S. stuck their nose in and armed the "resistance", so ... this time Jersey Ben is right.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Actually, I believe he is referring to Afghanistan in the early 1980's when we actually supplied weapons to what later became Al Qaeda ... and their leader, Osama Bin-Dead-For-A-While.

They were defending themselves from the Russians, so the U.S. stuck their nose in and armed the "resistance", so ... this time Jersey Ben is right.

There was no Al-qaeda then, we were supplying arms to Rebels fighting the Russians.

We give arms to South Korea, if they joined N.Korea would you say we were arming N.Korea in past..

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[Chadeaux]

Al Queda and the Taliban evolved from those muslim rebels. Therefore, we armed what later became Al Queda and the Taliban. The weapons they received, were eventually the property of those groups.

We bet on a war, and played sides, and it came back to bite us.

That is the way it is, even if we don't like it. Was it intended to be that way? No, but it happened.

Same with South Korea. If they joined North Korea in a war against the U.S. then, yes, we would have armed an enemy before they were an enemy.

Of course, in the current political climate, certain of our leaders would continue to arm them even after going to war.

Arming the Syrians and their Al Queda members is arming our enemy.

 

[jerseyben]

Sometimes I cant tell if certain folks actually believe this nonsense or if they are just trying not to be proven wrong...

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Al Queda and the Taliban evolved from those muslim rebels. Therefore, we armed what later became Al Queda and the Taliban. The weapons they received, were eventually the property of those groups.

We bet on a war, and played sides, and it came back to bite us.

That is the way it is, even if we don't like it. Was it intended to be that way? No, but it happened.

Same with South Korea. If they joined North Korea in a war against the U.S. then, yes, we would have armed an enemy before they were an enemy.

Of course, in the current political climate, certain of our leaders would continue to arm them even after going to war.

Arming the Syrians and their Al Queda members is arming our enemy.

Point is they were not al-qaeda , they were Muslim rebels fighting Russians. There was no al-qaeda in early 1980s. What they became years later changes the equation..





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[Chadeaux]

Their beliefs didn't change, only their ability to force their beliefs on other either through conversion or murder.

"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet", or a plague by any other name is still as deadly.

A bad decision is a bad decision, whether they were called Al Queda or Mujahadein.

The Free Dictionary defines Mujahadein as "a military force of Muslim guerilla warriors engaged in a jihad; `some call the mujahidin international warriors but others just call them terrorists'".

Webster's says exactly the same thing.

The CIA had provided arms to the Arab Mujahideen, including Osama bin Laden, writing, "Bin Laden was, though, a product of a monumental miscalculation by western security agencies. Throughout the 80s he was armed by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to wage jihad against the Russian occupation of Afghanistan."

As I remember, Osama was the face of Al Queda for some 11 years.

 

[vor]

Well, I came late to the party on the debate over whether or not we armed Al Queda. Not knowing what transpired I will say this: It appears that all are in agreement that we armed some guys-some of whom became Al Queda operatives.
Point being that we provided arms that were later used against us whether directly or against our allies (if we have such a thing in the area).

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Well, I came late to the party on the debate over whether or not we armed Al Queda. Not knowing what transpired I will say this: It appears that all are in agreement that we armed some guys-some of whom became Al Queda operatives.
Point being that we provided arms that were later used against us whether directly or against our allies (if we have such a thing in the area).

We furnished oil and steel to Japan that was later used in making bombs that were used on us at Pearl Harbor and early in WWII......... Point being at the time we furnished the oil and steel we were not at war with each other......

 

[Chadeaux]

We did not, however, arm Japan.

A mistake is one thing ... being ashamed to admit one has made a mistake has cost many people their lives.

Perhaps if the U.S. had kept their noses out of Afghanistan, Russia would have solved that problem for us and thousands of American citizens would not be dead.

Of course, hind sight is 20/20, but denying what has happened keeps us from learning from the mistakes.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

I don't know who made the statements that you are seeking links for. Don't know about al-qaeda but the US did arm the Afgans when fighting the Soviets. But it is pretty common knowledge. Don't know how you would trace those particular arms as there is an active black market in that area. That said, you can never win against tribal sects on their turf.

Soviet war in Afghanistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The insurgents received military training from the CIA in neighboring Pakistan and elsewhere in China, as well as[9] weapons and billions of dollars from the United States, United Kingdom, Saudi Arabia, and other countries.[3][4][5][9][24] The decade-long war resulted in millions of Afghans fleeing their country, mostly to Pakistan and Iran.

Common knowledge we supported Afghan Rebels, point is they were not al-Qaeda then, was no al- Qaeda then, al-qaeda formed 9 years after we started supporting afgan rebels in war against out enemy at the time. Soviet Afghan war 1979-1989.



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[vor]

Common knowledge we supported Afghan Rebels, point is they were not al-Qaeda then, was no al- Qaeda then, al-qaeda formed 9 years after we started supporting afgan rebels in war against out enemy at the time. Soviet Afghan war 1979-1989.

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I still don't know what the argument is about on this thread. My statement is a historical fact. Not saying we deliberately armed some guys that turned al-qaeda, just that we did.
Just another reason that we should let the regional powers play policeman.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

We did not, however, arm Japan.

A mistake is one thing ... being ashamed to admit one has made a mistake has cost many people their lives.

Perhaps if the U.S. had kept their noses out of Afghanistan, Russia would have solved that problem for us and thousands of American citizens would not be dead.

Of course, hind sight is 20/20, but denying what has happened keeps us from learning from the mistakes.

The alternative could have been worse.......

1979 was height of cold war. Israel and Egypt had signed peace treaty which soviets feared Egypt had been their ally and saw it as diminishing their influence in Mid East, Iran had over thrown the Shah and was establishing Muslim state.

Thousands of Afghans were being executed by the pro soviet Afghan government and when the Afghan people revolted because of the executions thousands more were executed many of who were tribal and village leaders.

Need to also remember our U.S ambassador to Afghanistan was kidnapped and later killed in assault by pro soviet Afghan troops and soviet advisors in Feb 1979 which can be considered an act of war.


The US and the Soviets both were supporting different sides of several
" brush wars" during the cold war as opposed to full scale nuclear war with each other....

So yes we supported the Afghan rebels who were fighting the pro soviet Afghan troops and Soviets, but need to remember we did it for multiple reasons one of which was Afghans were fighting because they were being executed by the 10's of thousands...

After the invasion, President Jimmy Carter announced what became known as Carter Doctrine, the U.S. would not allow any other outside force to gain control of the Persian Gulf.

Soviets had no warm water ports and US feared that was part of their intent, along with a move towards Pakistan and Iran giving them a firm hold on Mid East and its oil which we could not allow.

Because of Iran, Soviets feared Muslim revolution would spread to their land that had millions of Muslims.

Even Jimmy Carter supported arming the Afghans as he was president when it all started.....

Shame on America for supporting oppressed Afghan people who were being executed by the 10's of thousands and shame on US for not surrendering Middle East to Soviets, if the Soviets gained control of the Mid East and it's oil and the money it produced we would be living in a far worse world today.....

It was a high stakes poker game and a wrong move could have meant the end of the world for all, once a nuke is launched all bets are off, "stick your head between your legs and kiss your butt goodbye....



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[pippinwhitepaws]

absurd

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

absurd

Shows what you know, that is fact....


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[pippinwhitepaws]

I wonder about this awful need to insult others and degrade their education...
as if posting such...really means others have substandard educations and someone else is the sole source of factual information on earth.


history professor once told me you can not build an education upon sand...you need a strong foundation...
clearly some people have wheels instead.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

I wonder about this awful need to insult others and degrade their education...
as if posting such...really means others have substandard educations and someone else is the sole source of factual information on earth.


history professor once told me you can not build an education upon sand...you need a strong foundation...
clearly some people have wheels instead.

Who are you talking to? What I posted is fact, look it up......

 

[Ammonhotep]

The alternative could have been worse.......

...

... if the Soviets gained control of the Mid East and it's oil and the money it produced we would be living in a far worse world today.....

Supposition, which is what Pippin was calling absurd.

No way to know what could have happened.

Oh, wait ... I think I'm off topic.