Xterra 505 or Vaquero

[rainyday101]

Atomic Scott, when you had the problems finding rusty iron, where was your disc. set at? If it was set past pulltab and you still had issues I would have to agree with you. When refer to a lot or rusty iron are we talking small objects or bigger objects? bigger rusty iron cannot be discriminated out but you can tell it is a larger non-coin sized target by painting the size when you pin point. If Rusty says they were okay then I would say they were okay.

I am not trying to piss you off I just think that both of these detectors are good and want to get the better of the two. Anytime you pose this question on a forum you get people who say get this one, it is the same one they are using. I just wish there were more youtube vids with depth test and target separation test for the Xterra line. For how many people use the Xterra I was surprised to find so little testing information on them.

 

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[atomicscott]

It sounds as if you already have your mind made up. You seem to be defending the Vaquero, yet you haven't personally owned one. I know I don't miss my Vaquero one bit. You will never know which you prefer unless you try both. That is the only way I knew how much I appreciated the technology of the Xterra. When I had the Vaquero's disc set at dime/quarter area, I would STILL dig iron the size of a dime or larger but not necessarily even the same shape as a coin (like a rusty bolt, etc). I would say "get this one" ONLY because I have owned both and I feel like I wasted my time and money with the Vaquero. Just take a look at some of the Xterra (and other Minelab) users who have gone over the areas they 'hunted out' with the Vaq but found more silver coins and other goodies they missed with the Vaq. That is what sealed the deal in my mind. When I started finding mucho clad that I missed with my Vaquero, I was thinking 'Ahhh, this is how it is supposed to be!' Light bulb moment. So get the Vaquero, and wonder how great it COULD be or get the Xterra & know how great it IS. Just be prepared to learn the language of the single tone. It's not easy. Quarter has a 'round' sound. Dime has a crisper 'feel' to it. Nickel is 'softer' sounding. Sounds feasible? Just try it in 'real world', hunting in a fairly trashy old home site. I don't have the time to learn a machine to (try to) interpret a single tone to ID a target. Oh, just so you know, I'm not a 'Minelab schill'. I think the F5, AT pro or MXT would all be better choices than the Vaq. I preferred the Xterra, due to the reasons I (and Longhair) mentioned before. Good luck.

 

[Longhair]

Yep Longhair you are right on the frequency matters issue, no doubt about it. The thing I keep going back to is that nobody wants to address is target separation. Freq. won't matter one bit if it can't do REALLY well at separating a target from trash. Now you current Xterra users may think you have good target separation, but what have you compared it to? Has anyone compared it to a Tesoro? Even the least expensive Tesoro's will pass Monte's nail board test where a fair amount of other brands detectors fail miserably. Has anyone done the nail board test with it and do you have a video of it? If it did well I would probably take a sip of the koolaid and add a Minelab to the detector stable.

No, I haven't made a vdeo....but perhaps I should.

Tailored for high conductors (3kHz coil) and a trashy site (6" Coiltek Digger), I have no doubt that the Xterra would pass the "nail board test". One of my more recent sites hunted was an 1850's farmhouse (empty but still habitable), where the entire area anywhere you go is so littered with iron that you literally have to search until you find what gave you the good signal that enticed you to dig, because your pinpointer will go off on several bad targets in each and every hole. It's a nightmare place to hunt, and impossible with anything larger than a 6" coil on any machine. If I could get a 4" 3kHz coil, that would be a place for it. I even tried my Explorer SE w/8" DD and it was a waste of time (a SunRay X5 might work).
Regardless, 3kHz does much better in heavy iron trash than higher frequencies, which is why the high end machines that I mentioned do as well as they do. But even the high end killers (except the CTX & DFX) can't exclude some iron related issues because by virtue of being multi-freq machines they aren't focused on that low frequency like the Xterra is when so equiped.

If you want a Vaq, by all means get one. The only person that needs to be satisfied is you!

 

[Ronzie]

Of course I compared my xterra to a Tesoro. Thats the only way I could come to a conclusion. I dont think Rusty was lying when he said that 2 detectors were ok on final testing. Why do you insist my disc was not working properly? Many have had the same issues, not hard to find that info. Rusty assured me everything was working as expected. Higher freq detectors like gold, (low conductors) but they also like iron. Thats just the way it is. Other than Ronzie, I havent found anyone who prefers their Vaquero after using a minelab, and that was NOT an xterra.

To be fair Scott, I only got to play with the Vaquero for 1 1/2-2hrs. It just gave me enough time for a feel of it. By no means did I get to really know it.
Now that I've done some research, I'm not interested in the V now. Only because I've got the Outlaw and am getting a Tiger Shark for sure at Christmas and I'm also looking at the Tejon and the multi tone Golden Umax. I've decided to just use this one machine till early November.

My area is pretty good with low to no mineralization. Some clay areas, but that's about it. I can get old 1800 coins out of the ground in pretty good shape here.
I've now got 38 hours with the Outlaw and my one 9 volt battery is still strong. $119.96 in clad, 4 large cents, 14 silver coins, 3 Indian heads, 4 Wheaties (in Canada), small gold chain and a beauty old 14k gold man's ring. I'm going to post pics in the next couple of days of the last weeks finds. Both gold pieces I found in real trashy area's that I've covered with the Explorer.

Whatever way Rainyday goes he'll be getting a good detector. I'd say either the X-Terra, Tejon or Outlaw. Maybe even the multi tone Golden Umax. Even the F4 or F5.
The only machine I've been disappointed with like you with the V is my GTI 2500. Your F2 or Compadre would run circles around that. I think your X-Terra vs the V was a good comparison. Not every machine is for everyone.

 

[dirtscratcher]

As a former Minelab guy that's not true. Now I can't say I've actually used a X-Terra, but had a Explorer SE w/pro coil for 5 years. That would make an Ex-Terra 100 x better than an Explorer. There is nothing my Tesoro can't do that the double the price Explorer could. It only needs a 9 volt because it doesn't have a screen to distract you.
Before this year I'd agree with you because I use to laugh at Tesoro's as old dinosaur machines. Now I'm laughing at how wrong I was.
Tesoro's are the most underrated detectors, bar none. I did like the 2 blondes joke and can had one myself, if you put an Etrac with a Teknetics 8000 you get the sound of R2D2 raping a duck.

I know something that the explorer can do that no Tesoro can, that is run zero disc and still have multitone and visual id. Which is also the may to run the exterras

 

[rainyday101]

No Atomic Scott my mind is not made up on the Vaq. even though I am a beep and dig guy right now with a Silver Umax and a Tiger Shark. Of all the detectors with displays that I would use strictly for coin shooting with silver as my goal only two stand out for me and they are the Xterra 505 and the Whites M6. Learning the tone is already done for me, I am very proficient with the Silver and Tiger, but the grass is always greener on the other side. I just want make sure it really is green! Longhairs points on the 505 are hard to deny, a 3KHZ machine would be a silver slayer. I have until next spring to decide or possibly sooner if my wife buys off on it. If I saw a 505 cheap enough on that big auction site, I might not be able to resist.

I just wish there were video test of the 505. Maybe it's so good the testing is pointless. Soooo, no my mind is not made up! I just wish to get the facts and opinions from both sides to help me make a better decision.

 

[atomicscott]

No Atomic Scott my mind is not made up on the Vaq. even though I am a beep and dig guy right now with a Silver Umax and a Tiger Shark. Of all the detectors with displays that I would use strictly for coin shooting with silver as my goal only two stand out for me and they are the Xterra 505 and the Whites M6. Learning the tone is already done for me, I am very proficient with the Silver and Tiger, but the grass is always greener on the other side. I just want make sure it really is green! Longhairs points on the 505 are hard to deny, a 3KHZ machine would be a silver slayer. I have until next spring to decide or possibly sooner if my wife buys off on it. If I saw a 505 cheap enough on that big auction site, I might not be able to resist.

I just wish there were video test of the 505. Maybe it's so good the testing is pointless. Soooo, no my mind is not made up! I just wish to get the facts and opinions from both sides to help me make a better decision.

Its all good, I'm just passionate about it, because I was taking a chance on the XTerra and it turned out to be a great decision. If I still owned my Vaquero, I doubt I would use it. I won my 505 for $360 with 2 coils on feebay. The Xterra is threshold based all the time, so even any notched out targets will null the threshold and you can still know they are there. Its a total different ballgame than Vaquero, disc and all metal have a hum not just all metal like on Vaq. The learning curve is much easier though IMO.

 

[rainyday101]

No problem Atomic Scott we are all passionate about our detectors, that is why we use them. Unfortunate for me that I have no dealer anywhere near me. If I did I would be there everyday trying all the detectors out to see which suited me best. I guess we all try different detectors to find the one that finally suits us best. If we didn't we would never know what we were missing and it's that thought of not knowing that always keeps us on the quest for the perfect detector, if such a thing even exist.

Tesoro users for the most part are cult users just like minelab users. The only difference is that we don't have koolaid! It's not against the law to have membership in two cults. I may have dual membership sometime soon.

 

[Ronzie]

I just switched from the Minelab cult to the Tesoro cult.

 

[Fletch88]

I did just the opposite as Ronzie. I'm now a Minelab only user I guess you could say! And yes Rainyday the grass is real green on this side! You already have a couple beep and digs it may be time to branch out a little. Just see what happens! You may be surprised. If you just can't stand the detector you could always return it and you'll only be out for the shipping. Good luck with your decision.

 

[chinchilla]

No Atomic Scott my mind is not made up on the Vaq. even though I am a beep and dig guy right now with a Silver Umax and a Tiger Shark. Of all the detectors with displays that I would use strictly for coin shooting with silver as my goal only two stand out for me and they are the Xterra 505 and the Whites M6. Learning the tone is already done for me, I am very proficient with the Silver and Tiger, but the grass is always greener on the other side. I just want make sure it really is green! Longhairs points on the 505 are hard to deny, a 3KHZ machine would be a silver slayer. I have until next spring to decide or possibly sooner if my wife buys off on it. If I saw a 505 cheap enough on that big auction site, I might not be able to resist.

I just wish there were video test of the 505. Maybe it's so good the testing is pointless. Soooo, no my mind is not made up! I just wish to get the facts and opinions from both sides to help me make a better decision.

The M6 is pretty much like the MXT. when compared with the Vaquero, the vaquero is deeper and it also has a faster speed recovery. I like the way the MXT handles hotrocks, but I can do the same with the vaquero using the pinpoint function

 

[rainyday101]

Thanks Chinchilla, what I have been asking on the 505 and have only got one answer on is target separation and recovery speed. These are two things that Tesoro is really good at. I have read another forum the Omega 8000 is deeper than the 505 and has much faster recovery speed. This is from somebody that claims to have owned both detectors.

 

[Longhair]

I have read another forum the Omega 8000 is deeper than the 505 and has much faster recovery speed. This is from somebody that claims to have owned both detectors.

I'm not buying the "deeper" part of that claim.
Maybe with the stock 9" 7.5kHz concentric coil on the Xterra against the 10" eliptical concentric on the 7.8kHz Omega, but not aganst a 3kHz coil on the Xterra.

 

[rainyday101]

Yep your right Longhair it was stock coil vs. stock coil.

 

[chinchilla]

Thanks Chinchilla, what I have been asking on the 505 and have only got one answer on is target separation and recovery speed. These are two things that Tesoro is really good at. I have read another forum the Omega 8000 is deeper than the 505 and has much faster recovery speed. This is from somebody that claims to have owned both detectors.

never used the Xterra, but I have read comments saying the vaquero have better speed recovery. I've been reading good things about the fisher goldbug, take also a look at that one if you are looking for a screen.


You may find this video helpful, the Trident 2 is the Vaquero in UK

 

[atomicscott]

never used the Xterra, but I have read comments saying the vaquero have better speed recovery. I've been reading good things about the fisher goldbug, take also a look at that one if you are looking for a screen.

You may find this video helpful, the Trident 2 is the Vaquero in UK

Video Link: http://youtu.be/LZN5Z3lpFoM

If you are coinshooting at all, the gold bug is not what you want. Mine wouldnt get a quarter past 6-7" in the air. The stock 5" coil is designed to find small gold but lacks depth. I sent mine back! The gold bug pro is a better choice, but still not very deep on coins.

 

[rainyday101]

Thanks for the vid chinchilla. The operating freq of the Goldbug is to high to be effective for silver coins. Not saying it can find them, it's just not the optimum freq. That is one thing where the 505 wallops the Vaq. Even with a stock coil the 505 is running at 7.5 Khz vs. the Vaq's 14.5 Khz. The ability to change the 505 to 3 Khz is ideal for silver. I still question target separation and recovery speed for trashy areas though on the 505. What little, and mean little I was able to find showed it to be average at best. Not enough information to make and objective decision. The Omega on the nail board test was fairly impressive as was the Vaq. A lot of the silver that is left in parks is masked by junk. Target separation, recovery speed, and depth will be the key to getting it.

 

[atomicscott]

Thanks for the vid chinchilla. The operating freq of the Goldbug is to high to be effective for silver coins. Not saying it can find them, it's just not the optimum freq. That is one thing where the 505 wallops the Vaq. Even with a stock coil the 505 is running at 7.5 Khz vs. the Vaq's 14.5 Khz. The ability to change the 505 to 3 Khz is ideal for silver. I still question target separation and recovery speed for trashy areas though on the 505. What little, and mean little I was able to find showed it to be average at best. Not enough information to make and objective decision. The Omega on the nail board test was fairly impressive as was the Vaq. A lot of the silver that is left in parks is masked by junk. Target separation, recovery speed, and depth will be the key to getting it.

Sorry I was referring to the new (digital) gold bug just to verify. Another good point about the 3khz coil, it hates iron almost as much as it loves silver! This will make picking silver out of iron trash much easier than the other detectors mentioned. Just a note, from what Ive heard, fhe Omega 8000 is prone to EMI so it can be difficult too run hot without it being chatty. If you are sold on a single frequency detector, there are many in the same price range. If you want the ability to change frequency there is only one choice in that price range.

 

[chinchilla]

If you are coinshooting at all, the gold bug is not what you want. Mine wouldnt get a quarter past 6-7" in the air. The stock 5" coil is designed to find small gold but lacks depth. I sent mine back! The gold bug pro is a better choice, but still not very deep on coins.

I'm not well-informed about the coil selection on that machine, but a small coil also has its place

Thanks for the vid chinchilla. The operating freq of the Goldbug is to high to be effective for silver coins. Not saying it can find them, it's just not the optimum freq. That is one thing where the 505 wallops the Vaq. Even with a stock coil the 505 is running at 7.5 Khz vs. the Vaq's 14.5 Khz. The ability to change the 505 to 3 Khz is ideal for silver. I still question target separation and recovery speed for trashy areas though on the 505. What little, and mean little I was able to find showed it to be average at best. Not enough information to make and objective decision. The Omega on the nail board test was fairly impressive as was the Vaq. A lot of the silver that is left in parks is masked by junk. Target separation, recovery speed, and depth will be the key to getting it.

your welcome. yes, if your prime goal is silver that's not the best choice.

I have to say. On one of my last comments I didn't want to put down the MXT, I think it is also a good do-everything detector, not as deep as the vaquero, but depth is not everything and you still have a 12'' and a 15'' concentric coil available

 

[rainyday101]

The ideal way to go would be to get the Etrac. FSB has been the only real improvement I have see in detectors in awhile. Single Freq. VLF detectors have not changed much in about the last 15 years or so. They haven't really gotten much deeper with a few exception that make other compromises to eek out that extra inch or two (F75, Tejon). Their only change has been to add fancy displays, better disc., digital processing, and other bells and whistles. Unfortunately I can't drop the money required for an Etrac. Soooo.... with silver being the primary goal, this leaves trying to find the best of the best in VLF single freq. machines to do the job. As Atomic Scott and Longhair have pointed out, the 3KHZ coil for the 505 is ideal for silver. Price of a new 505 = $550, price for a new 3 Khz coil $193. Grand total $743. For this to happen for me I would have to buy a used Xterra 505 and then get the coil. Things are getting close to the price of a Safari, but I have been told by a dealer that most minelabs require a slower swing due to processing all that info., but the safari is inexcusably slow.

Atomic Scott, yes I also heard the Omega 8000 can get chatty around EMI.

So here is a question for you Xterra Guru's- Does the xterra give a distinctive sound when it hits silver with either the stock coil or the 3 Khz coil? I am told a silver hit on the etrac is extremely noticeable.