Willie L Douthit

[L.C. BAKER]

LC,

I know where you're going with this as well. If the gold found would have all been refined pure bars, then I might give it some credence. My family has it's own history with the KGC post Civil War. I posted a looooooooooong time ago about it:

ME-N-THE-KGC

The big problem with the KGC being the originators is that a lot of the loot from VP were letters and jewelry dating into the 1700s. Also, most of the bars found were unrefined Dore Bars (thats why for two years Doc thought they were "Pig Iron"). If they would have been from the Confederate Treasury, they would have been shiny refined gold.

Mike

Thanks for the link. Don't be so quick on the K.G.C. just stashing what they had in their treasury. If it is one thing that I have found, "the OAK had a lot of limbs" Their may be Spanish loot and some say mined gold and Silver from California, Utah, and Mexico. Several of these members had their own mines in operation and after greenbacks came around they hoarded what they mined and minted a percentage. The chances of it still being there are good because they took off with other paying investments and banking schemes from 1854 through the 1900's. The area we are talking about would be a very good spot to look because of it's K.G.C. links.

Just my two cents, L.C.

 

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[L.C. BAKER]

Also I kinda think I know where you were going with who stashed it there, I know its in one of your threads but give us a quick overview of how that whole area( southwest us and parts of Mexico ) were annexed and we can keep it in mind as we trace down the whole Willie- Buster- Mary Wells connection.

Franklin Pierce was a Knight of the golden circle with out a doubt and they wanted this area for a reason, to the point of taking up arms to defend it. To say it was for a southern route for the Railroad may be only a partial truth. After all, they made more money when they laid crooked tracks than they did laying straight one's. These guys were the copper, steel, and manufacturing kings. I think this area was important to them because of a more secret reason that was never talked about.
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/kgc/367086-franklin-pierce-knight-golden-circle.html#post3530571
L.C.

 

[johnmark29020]

BIG SCOTT,

I agree that we're probably on the right track. One thing that threw me off was trying to use the stories (tall tales?) that have been passed down. Once I got beyond that, everything appears to be clicking. I wouldn't put much credence in the Willie and Buster "cousin" relationship unless someone lays it all out. Talk is cheap!

You are also on track with the 1910 and 1920 Census information for Buster

I don't think the Robert H.Ward in the Albuquerque hospital in the 1930 Census is our Robert.

In the 1930 Sierra County, New Mexico Census we find Robert Ward (27), Eunice (Wife) (20), and two sons Robert (3) and Leonard (1). Robert's younger brother Oliver Ward (24) is also listed. BTW Robert lists his occupation as a Gold Miner.

The following is Robert "Buster" Ward's Death Certificate.

<img src="http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1088660"/>

The Death Certificate seems to spell out the details of someone who died without any family and is probably buried in a potters field grave.

(No Gold Bars for Buster?)

It may be a short and "sad" thread for Buster's history.

Garry

When I found my location in AZ. I disregarded everything except for what was supposed to be walzs direction,and description on the area around his mine.
When I arrived at my location the mexican mining influence was obvious.
After a week of walking around my area i was able to visually confirm over half of the paper maps. The ones in the ajpl. Finally I found that I was standing in the middle of the heart trail maps made of stone.
My point is dont disregard the camp fire stories altogether. They may have some good info. But the wrong location. In the case of my location. The old timers misunderstand one land mark. Then that misunderstanding was passed on and on. Everything else was correct.
As of yesterday A research team took over my search. Im providing them all of my research, pictures,and explanation of the maps. Plus ge coordinates. Hopefully they will be able to do more with it than I. Especially since they are experts, and im just a novice.
I think my location is connected to noss based on nps map. Its identical in every detail to my location. Including the crown like peak.
Maybe the team will get us some anwsers.

 

[H-2 CHARLIE]

Who is this team ?

 

[gollum]

Who is this team ?

I think he is referring to this team of miscreant misfits here on TNet.

Mike

 

[johnmark29020]

Who is this team ?

I dont know who all is on the team.
I only meet with one of them. He said they would be composed of student and teachers from one of the colleges in az. I cant take it any further myself and he agreed to keep me in the loop. Im hoping they can identify any historical objects. Being a novice I wouldnt know the difference between a old pot that means nothing,and a old pot that have great meaning. Some of the things I took pictures of when I was out there . Seem to get him excited. Im more interested in the historical than any treasure. Im hoping they can prove my theory.
Then again they may not. I only searched because of the puzzle. That's my talent and passion. So im hoping they can do more. Then again they may take what I shared and take it in a totally different direction.
I wanted to put together my on team of experienced hunters,but not enough people were interested. With my health I cant do it alone. So I took a chance and shared what I had.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

John, there comes a time when you have "go for broke", I have on Tayopa

 

[BIGSCOTT]

So Busters wife Eunice left him, maybe after the accident he got depressed and drove her away, if he had a bunch of gold or the proceeds from selling treasure that would be incentive for her to stay

 

[BIGSCOTT]

I at work and coming to tent from a tablet so that copy of Busters death certificate is kinda hard to read, does it say cause of death complcattions of tuberculosous? And then under that pulmonary?

 

[BIGSCOTT]

I also would like to know more about his father, does William White ever post on any of the forums here? I think he knows a little about Busters pop's

 

[gollum]

Buster may not have known where the treasure cave was. He might have only known about the "Stash Cave" up Hackberry Draw. Granted, the treasure cave could not be very far from there, but Buster may not have known where it was.\

Mike

 

[UncleMatt]

Correct me if I'm wrong Mike, but in Book 1 they discuss the version of the story where Buster found Willie's cave, and after he got over being mad he made Buster his partner. I like your surmising on this, but want to make sure I understand. Are you suggesting Buster found the Hackberry Draw location but never the main "money" cave? Well then let me ask you this, do you think Doc ever found Willie's cave?

 

[gollum]

Correct me if I'm wrong Mike, but in Book 1 they discuss the version of the story where Buster found Willie's cave, and after he got over being mad he made Buster his partner. I like your surmising on this, but want to make sure I understand. Are you suggesting Buster found the Hackberry Draw location but never the main "money" cave? Well then let me ask you this, do you think Doc ever found Willie's cave?

I think its a very good possibility that Buster only found the stash cave. If he knew where the main treasure cave was, then why couldn't he get more gold? Why did he die poor?

As far as Doc goes, I don't know. Maybe he did, and maybe he didn't. No way to tell. Willie's Main Cave was supposed to be around Dark Canyon/Bat cave, and Doc and Ova were known to camp out at Cleato Springs. Who knows.

Mike

 

[BIGSCOTT]

Robert T Ward June 17th 1871 in Gonzalez Texas
Died nov 22nd 1951 Uvalde Texas
Buried alongside Matilda Jane "Tellie" in San Patricio county Texas
Tellie died before Robert and he remarried Edna

 

[BIGSCOTT]

But from what I under stand he did quite a bit of snooping around the Caballo's

 

[UncleMatt]

Mike, I have read that its a mile north of bat cave canyon. I am sure there are many reported locations, figuring them all out and choosing the right one could probably take a lifetime.

 

[Garry]

Laurence Foreman's Land Parcels Near Palmdale, California

I wanted to revisit Larry Foreman’s real estate dealings near Palmdale, California in the 1950’s.

Larry, and in one case, in concert with Minnie Weeks, obtained title to three parcels of land that were owned by the Federal government and administered by the BLM. The three parcels were all located in the foothills of the Sierra Pelona Mountians in Los Angeles County and they lie within about 4 miles of each other.

Looking at some of the surrounding parcels in the area it appears that a large portion of the desirable land had passed to individuals in the 1930’s but there remained a quilt patchwork of unclaimed remnants.

It would appear that Larry, and in some cases Minnie, located these parcels by researching records and identifying them as unclaimed federal land. There was also a record of another parcel that Larry obtained in San Diego County. I would believe that Larry physically checked out these parcels before filing on them.

Since we believe that Larry had a full time job with the Municipal Court in these years, these land acquisitions would have been an additional time consuming and tedious effort. It would have almost been a second job. Lots of paper work and boots on the ground effort would have been involved.

Below is an approximation of where I located the 3 parcels of land in Twp 5N, Range 12 W.

I apologize for the quality, as I zoomed out to include the surrounding area, the print became small and everything is fuzzy. For anyone interested in pursuing these parcels, the map is from the 15 Minute Ritter’s Ridge Topo (1958). The topo pdf can be downloaded from the USGS site

The 1958 map would be roughly contemporary with Larry's land acquisitions and would reflect the roads, etc.




Why was Larry Foreman obtaining this land?

Some place to store his gold bars?

Speculative investments in real estate?

Weekend base for prospecting and rock collecting in the surrounding mountains?

Could this be the setting for Larry’s encounter with the aliens?

Other?

The largest and most expensive tract (52 Acres) that we have a record for is located with fairly easy travel access. Travel North from Los Angeles on Highway 14 toward Palmdale and take the exit before you reach Palmdale (Palmdale Lake) and travel West on West 40th Avenue. On Google, it looks to me like the main road begins to swing north after about a mile and a half but there is a dirt road that continues straight west. Larry’s property begins about 2 miles west of Highway 14 on the south side of the road.

The following map shows the approximate location of Larry’s 52 acres.

Note: The reason that the parcel is not square is because the surveyors had to make corrections for the township in the northern most sections to account for the earth’s curvature.

If you are working with the grids on the 2012 Ritter’s Ridge topo, they do not represent sections.



Larry's land its self is rather nondescript. There were mines in the mountains to the west but I’m unaware of what type of minerals were being mined. I also don’t know what the exposed geological formations were in the surrounding mountains.(Any Help?)

We have indications that Larry was an amateur prospector and he owned a Rock Shop later in life. Could these hobbies have had anything to do with these parcels? I wonder if Larry ever filed any mining claims?

I’m going to insert jpgs of the other two parcels for reference. These parcels apparently didn’t have the ease of access that existed for the 52 acre plot. I believe the GPS information is close. I appreciate anyone looking over my shoulder and if I have made any errors in the analysis to point them out.





Just adding a bit more detail to Larry’s past but unanswered questions are still plentiful.

Garry

 

[sdcfia]

Garry, if the legal descriptions given in Post #56 are correct, then the Section 8 parcel is incorrectly placed on your map. It's in the SW1/4 of the SE1/4. It needs to be 1/4 mile west as shown on the map in Post #60.

That's an interesting set of speculations. It doesn't seem so likely to me that this was real estate speculation, especially for Southern California. He may have gotten the land cheap, but I'll bet he sold it cheap too when the NF was established. It certainly doesn't seem to be a likely expansion venue for greater LA growth. A location for hiding gold bars? Certainly an option. A base for rockhounding? Yes. The alien encounter site? Interesting. If the book was coded, then possibly he was describing his gold bar hiding spot in a general way. As I recall, the book's description of the land wasn't overly detailed, although access seemed to be fairly easy at the time, and known by others (bikers, etc).

 

[Garry]

Sdcfia,

Thanks for the correction. There may be other errors but we are at least closer!

Garry

BTW, I didn't run across anything to indicate that this property was within the Angeles National Forest?

Also, I believe that all land in National Forests are not necessarily owned by the Government. In Missouri there are significant sections within, what they call, the Mark Twain National Forest that are still privately owned.

 

[gollum]

Garry,

I have been out there already to look at the largest parcel. You really must never have been to the area. From the South, you would have to cross the Big Tujunga Reservoir (which is not publicly accessible), from the North, East, or West, you would have to get access to "closed to the public" fire access roads. Even then, you don't get closer than several miles away. I spent three days trying to get to it from every angle.

When you see this from GoogleEarth:

and this

Inside the red circles are road barricades. Unless you are on a HotShot (Firefighting) Crew, or have good friends at the BLM, you don't get access. I guess back then, those old dirt roads were accessible by anybody.

I have not looked at the other parcels yet.

Mike