Willie L Douthit

[UncleMatt]

Oh it isn't me supposing anything, feel free to refer to The Gold House: The Discovery: Chapter 3, a few pages in. There are conflicting claims involved, where Willie claims he found the map under the window sill, but there is also a version of the story where he learned Jack Reynold had discovered the maps, and he killed him for them. That is why Jack's coat was found with two bullet holes and subsequently delivered to Maragaret Perrone, the boy's guardian. I personally have no idea which version is correct, or where the structure was they claimed to have found the maps under the window sill.

And you would do well to read farther in the thread than where you read the locked gates comment made by Mike. He wasn't given accurate locations to look at, and we subsequently learned later where the properties actually were. No locked gates, no "lock down" of any kind involved.

 

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[UncleMatt]

Do you wish more facts Roger? Condescension will not serve you well with me.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Fine Roger, now where did this treasure come from? Unless one can prove ( ? ) of the possible existence of a treasure/ deposit in the Caballo, it still remains only the story of a ' walk about ' ,

I have no argument with your chronology of the walk-about.

 

[UncleMatt]

I did some looking, and there are only 2 old stone structures left standing in Rincon, NM. The most likely candidate would be at the corner of Rincon Road and Corea Street, just north of the old train station. 32.672806°, -107.064831°, The other is north one block at the corner of Derry and Corea 32.673337°, -107.065360°. There are a couple of other old structures, but they are either adobe brick construction, or you cannot tell due to casing with wood and corrugated metal.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

I can understand the maps in a window sill construction, but not a sextant, nor why it was supposedly needed.,

 

[treasminder2]

alright

since it has been missed via my previous postings

Once again

I do not need to read a book , I am one of the people that the books are written about
I, am the book .

simple that .

First , I discount adamantly the info compiled from the Ova Noss Family Project , thatr the Gold House Books
are written on .

I KNEW the players ( most of them )

They , the ONFP group , came to us for the info
then claimed that what they received frrom us , was all Doc Noss Documents

I Know the truth of that statement to a very full extent .

I write here simply to reveal facts that are misconstrued and lies that are passed as truth , by people like
the ONFP Group

I guess I cannot get people past their blinders , they seem to think the ONFP
Gold House Books are the Gospel

or they as so many others believ if it is in print , it must be true
I c
an assure you that I knew Jerry Cheatum, and that group

and it is a fact , I would never trust anything they state .

Outside of the three books I myself am writting and will publish on a bit torrent site for free

The info I release here is NOT known by any one attached to the ONFP or the Exalted Author of the Books

Jack Clarence to my knowledge
was never in the field with us .

what he thinks he knows as fracts , could just as well be B.S.
as his sources are suspect

as for myself
I knew the Truck Driver personally , and I just named him above.

Jerry and company had no clue as to the driver's name , in fact , they never knew the Jack
Reynolds story at all until one of us informed them of it .

as I stated , all the ONFP material is gleaned from people such as my family .

Doc Noss had NO Clue .

One item you may also want to reconsider

Larry Formen may6 have met Willie in LA

and when Sam and Norman Scott released the news that they were going to attempt
to pop the peak
Larry may have taken it in his head to impersonate Willie and show up
to stake a claim .

give it a think , he meets willie at a boarding house in L.A.
Willie talks too much
Willie later is Gone

years later
Boom
Larry becomes Willie

 

[UncleMatt]

Roger, please point to which of the stone structures I posted earlier is THE stone structure in question where the map was found. Or can you point to a different one perhaps, or the area where it once stood? Feel free to send me a private message if you don't want to post it here.

And to be clear, I don't take anything as "gospel" , I merely operate with the information I have access to. I look forward to reading your books.

 

[sdcfia]

I would accept that Roger Snow has good information about where the truck driver dropped off the hitchhiker on that stormy night. How the driver knew the kid's identity is unexplained - he could have been anyone. Even though Roger believes the kid was Reynolds and believes the windowsill story, I don't buy it. I would need to know who first released this story, when it surfaced and why it was made public before I would even consider hanging my hat on it.

As far as the Gold Trilogy is concerned, it is a good collection of the many stories surrounding the Noss years, but I believe it is far too biased toward the Noss family spin to be accepted without question. In my opinion, the most interesting part of Book 1 is the collection of letters written by Merle Horzmann, who is vilified in the book but may well be giving the most truthful opinions of Noss's character and his actions.

We've heard lots of great stories about treasure caves in the Caballos, but we don't yet have the truth. Here's what we can be pretty sure of: the specific rumors of gold-filled caves surfaced in the 1930s. The following men are directly connected to the rumors and each other: Jack Renolds, Willie Douthit, Buster Ward and Doc Noss. Noss later was associated with additional gold rumors at Victorio Peak. Douthit later had plenty of money in Los Angeles. Ward's later life is unclear. The alleged treasure caves in the Caballos have never been confirmed. Despite all the books, articles, news reports, testimony, hearsay and rumors, we know these players were up to something, but we have no verifiable evidence of what it was. We know the legends of LaRue, Navarez, Jesuits and Spanish mines haven't held up to scrutiny, so if there was gold cached in the Caballos, where did it come from and how did these actors get their hands on it?

 

[UncleMatt]

I was unable to locate any "stone cabins" near the Rincon exits off of I-25. The 2 stone structures I posted GPS coordinates for earlier were the only stone structures I could locate in the Rincon area.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Sdc, Roger, & unk Matt: the deposits in the Caballo 'are' accounted for. They were from the illegal mines in Chihuahua and Sonora, principally from Tayopa. All were clandestine mines run for the Jesuits by coajutors, some with a Jesuit presence But not with the mission Priest, he was excluded.

The lil map from NP tends to confirm this.

As far as a sextant goes, it is too bulky to hide in a window sill 's vacant construction spots, sides a good lensatic compass will do just as good, probably far more accurate than what the Jesuits had.

 

[treasminder2]

Quote : " As far as a sextant goes, it is too bulky to hide in a window sill 's vacant construction spots, sides a good lensatic compass will do just as good, probably far more accurate than what the Jesuits had.""

end quote

The freaking walls of a Native Stone Cabin / building / home .
are by rote 18 inches thick .

You can hide a Fat Woman in them .

Go out there and run your instruments on that Cabin site .

Common increment for the walls is 18 inches thick as i said .

No need for the sextant ?

Think it out

when at one mountain range , on a ridge , and sighting another ridge miles off , would you need a sextant ?

as well
in that area , there are scads of scattered mountain ranges .

back then

no street signs
no GPS

no need for a sextant ?

Do you know what it was used for ?

 

[treasminder2]

Quote : " I would accept that Roger Snow has good information about where the truck driver dropped off the hitchhiker on that stormy night. How the driver knew the kid's identity is unexplained - he could have been anyone. "

end quote

rebuttal :

Ever hitch hike in the 1920's through that area of New Mexico ?

It's so elemental

Population in S. NM at that time , would not fill a passenger train , and everyone either knew each other , or knew a person
who knew a person .

Exchanging names with a man who gives you a lift , just meets protocol of the road back then .

and the news that a man went missing , was BIG news of the time and place it occurred .

Think it out , it's simple to deduce .

It is not amazing that Charlie being a Truck Driver would experience back ache , and not amazing that he would
visit the Tracy Clinic in Hot Springs for the relief of that pain .

and it was to the Tracy Clinic that Jack was headed for his T.B. cure .

real simple deduction .

Later in life , Charlie moved to Carrizozo ,
however , while he lived in Rincon , he knew Ova and Doc and almost every one up and down the Rio Grande
Valley .

Every one for miles and miles around , attend the same social functions .

Festivals , Bars , Truck farms for shopping .

when you live in a rural area , even the birth of a child 30 to 100 miles away was news .

How Charlie knew Jacks name ?

simple answer : Why would he not ? He picked him back up the next morning and gave him a
ride to the Tracy Clinic , and saw him a few times afterward , I'd imagine that Jacks mysterious disappearance
would have been front page news ,,,
Owing that even high school ballgames were front page news in that area .

BTW

When Charlie died at his mining shack from the fumes while processing his Ore ,,,,

it was Dick Cole and my Dad that went up to check on him , Charlie had not checked in with them for
two days .
They found him dead .

That is how it is there in that area , every one is mindful of the other .

Would Charlie Know Jacks name ?

in 1920's So. New Mexico ?

Charlie Probably Knew the Name of every Rock in the area , why not a human being he was kind to ?

 

[sdcfia]

Roger, your story about the truck driver knowing Reynolds' name is possible for sure. One thing about Reynolds bothers me though. We know Willie, Buster and Doc were in T or C during this time period, but what about Jack Reynolds? No newspaper notices, no public record, no police/sheriff reports of his death. Only treasure stories. Nothing that proves he was ever in T or C (that I know of - please correct me if I'm missing something).

A sextant accurately measures angles between things - any two things. It also measures latitude accurately. With a latitude straight line to follow (at 90 or 270 degree bearing) and a landmark to sight on, a specific point on the ground defines a unique angle with the landmark. It might not be 100% accurate, but somebody skilled with the sextant should be able to get damned close.

 

[UncleMatt]

That is perhaps because he was an orphan who was taken in by Maragaret Perrone, a local resident. And he died very young, and according to some, at the hand of Willie Douthit.

 

[treasminder2]

Documentation was slack prior to WWII

for instance , Both my father and his Mother , had to file for a belated birth certificate in 1943 , for , both
were born at home and none was issued at time of birth

when it was realized that the draft board could not contact people that there were no birth records
available for , the Fed Gov passed a law that all citizens must apply for a belated birth cert .

Records on Jack Reynolds may not exist at all , for that reason .

another rumor about records that I heard that was interesting .

The Trial Documents on Charles Ryan for the Death of Doc , were found
in the Back Yard Shed of a Woman who was the Court Clerk at the time of the trial .

Those were discovered via an investigator , in 1977 , 28 years after the trial .

I'll post a link to my Grand Mothers record of her application for a belated B.C.

 

[treasminder2]

Click on the link below , scroll 2/3rds down the page to : Eleda Merree Snow

That is my Grandmother , and shows her stats and app , for her delayed Birth Cert .

People born in Rural communities , were often born without being documented .

it was quite common.

link :

Delayed Birth Certificates ~ Desoto Co, FL

 

[treasminder2]

and note that to the right of my Grand Mothers record , is another record , where the Father
had no clue as to his place of birth .

it states : Fathers place of birth : Unknown

That's how it was for people back then , Born , lived and died , some without even the knowledge
of what a State or county was .

Some , never got off the farm

Take my Great Grand Mother for instance

it states she was born in Banks Alabama .

That Town , even now , has a population lower then a ******s I.Q.

She gave birth to Eleda , by placing a bucket under a Cane Chair with a hole in the
seat to pass the baby through and into the bucket of water,

16 years later ,,,
that same chair was used to birth my Father .

It's a lost art , that old time birthing

one must question " How did we get so Soft ? "

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

G'D After noon Roger, drink yer coffee.
\
The walls on my home - right in front of me, looking out into the patio - are of adobe, 4 ft thick. But the walls of a cabin wouldn't be that thick - economy of labor and materiel..

Certainly I know what a sextant is, and am checked out in the use of one for navigation. In WW II the best that I could do was a 1/2 mile, watch error, but now they use hand held units to an accuracy of 6 ft for civilian usage.

The Jesuits were restricted to an Octant. or quarterstaff. not nearly as accurate a good Lensatic compass for horizontal angle measurements. Today most surveyors use a Theodolite for angle measurements.

I also know where the metal came from. Since I own Tayopa and have many records, including NP's lil map which shows quite clearly the route to the Caballos.. From which they sent it down the Rio Del Norte to the occasional waiting Jesuit ship near Matamoros for transport to Rome.

The Indians here hang unto a horizintal branch so that they are on their knees and handle a bith that way - use gravity to help.




More coffee





.

 

[UncleMatt]

I don't think the 2 rock structures I found are the "stone cabins" being referred to, but here is a photo off Google Maps to show the thickness of one of their walls. Both structures are in the photo though.

 

[UncleMatt]

If anyone comes across a map from the 1930's of this area, you should post its source and share. So far, no luck on my end finding that.