Why dont Americans mark their Civil War like the British do WW2?

[FreeBirdTim]

The South was wrong, period. Nothing you state here can justify the enslaving of fellow human beings. It may have been a Constitutional "right" at that time, but it was always morally and ethically wrong. Bottom line is that no person, state or country should ever have the "right" to enslave another person.

As far as Southerners having pride in their "heritage", that's ridiculous. Are you really proud that your ancestors kept, tortured and killed fellow human beings because they had a legal right to do so? Disgusting.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Diving for Pleasure and Treasure - Grab it through Amazon!

[ECS]

The Confederate States of America only existed for 4 years, while slavery legally existed under the Constitution in the United States for 80 years. Many northerners held slaves, but that fact seems to have been forgotten. The Civil War, as with all wars was based on economics-while the industrialized North needed the rural South's cotton for their mills, both were taxed the same, with the lions share of collected tax money aiding the North.
Yes, it was also a states rights issue, and the South believed it had the right to form its own nation, which it did, and the North invaded.
When a captured CSA soldier was asked why he was fighting, he replied, "Because you are here".

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

The South was wrong, period. Nothing you state here can justify the enslaving of fellow human beings. It may have been a Constitutional "right" at that time, but it was always morally and ethically wrong. Bottom line is that no person, state or country should ever have the "right" to enslave another person.

As far as Southerners having pride in their "heritage", that's ridiculous. Are you really proud that your ancestors kept, tortured and killed fellow human beings because they had a legal right to do so? Disgusting.

Yes I'm very proud of my heritage, over 70% of Southerns own no slaves at all and Northerners own slaves as well, thats right, learn a little history, slaves were also held in the north too. Lincoln originally had no intention on freeing the slaves, he even offered the South a deal of a Constitutional Amendment recognizing slavery if Southern states would return to the union.

When the Emancipation Proclamation was proclaimed it only freed the slaves in the South, Lincoln didn't bother to free the slaves in the north till 8 months after the war ended with the passing of the 13th amendment....3 full years after freeing slaves in the South, why did the north keep slaves 3 years longer after freeing those in the South.

 

[FreeBirdTim]

Yes I'm very proud of my heritage

Please tell me what you are proud of regarding the South and it's heritage. I'd really like to know exactly what you are referring to when you talk about your Southern heritage.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Please tell me what you are proud of regarding the South and it's heritage. I'd really like to know exactly what you are referring to when you talk about your Southern heritage.

I suggest we leave it alone, we are never going to agree, ... For the record my great grandfather fought for the South, he was a poor sharecropper and I'm proud of my heritage.


I see you totally ignore the fact the north held slaves for over 3 years after freeing slaves in the south.

 

[lockster99]

AS a "Northerner", are you proud of the draft riots? Are you proud of the rich buying their way out of defending the "Union" from the 2nd class citizens in the lower half or the North's back yard? Are you proud that Lincoln didn't even stand and state clearly how "Disgusting" the South was acting with slavery?

I would love to see the statistics on just how many Northerners were wearing clothes from cotton grown from the "digusting" South. England had no problem buying the cotton.

Get off your high horse.

 

[lockster99]

I'm going to look up tomorrow where I read how disgusting the North treated slaves that ended up in the North. I remember thinking how hypocritical it sounded when I read it. You cant have it both ways. Why didn't the North welcome them all with open arms. Not to say some didn't, but looks like most did not.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Lincoln's Violations of the US Constitution.

The Presidential oath of office that Lincoln swore to was "to preserve, protect and defend" the Constitution of the US.

Secession of states was not prohibited by the US Constitution at that time. Therefore it was completely legal...


#1 Lincoln ordered the military blockade of Southern ports.

This an act of war.

Only Congress can do that.

At that time Lincoln certainly violated the US Constitution.


#2 Lincoln ordered hundreds of Northern newspapers who dared to speak out against him to be shut down. And their owners and editors were arrested for disloyalty.

This is a clear violation of the 1st Amendment of the Constitution that Lincoln swore to uphold.


#3 Lincoln ordered the arrest of Ohio Congressman Clement Vallandigham for the crime of speaking out against him.

Can you imagine that?


#4 Ex parte Merryman,

Chief Justice of the US Roger Taney, sitting as a judge of the United States Circuit Court for the District of Maryland, ruled that Lincoln had violated the US Constitution when he illegally suspended the Writ of Habeas Corpus.

After hearing this Lincoln signed an arrest warrant to have the Chief Justice of the US arrested.

#5 US Constitution Article lll...

Section 3. Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them.

Lincoln committed treason.

Lincoln waged war upon his own country. Unless one considers secession legal and the Confederacy was a sovereign nation.

#6 Lincoln sent Union troops door to door in areas of Maryland, a Union state, to confiscate weapons.

This is a clear violation of the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution.

_____________________________

Many Constitutional violations against Maryland

'Maryland my Maryland' was published calling Lincoln a tyrant and a despot and a vandal.

Lincoln as already mentioned, trashed the Constitution by suspending the Writ of Habeas Corpus and sending troops door to door confiscating weapons in areas of Maryland.

Maryland was a Union state.

Lincoln ordered the arrest of thousands Marylanders for the crime of 'suspected Southern sympathies'.

Lincoln ordered the arrest of US Congressman Henry May representing Maryland. #7

Lincoln also had arrested...

Most of the Maryland State Legislature #8

Most of the Baltimore city council #9

The police commissioner of Baltimore #10

The mayor of Baltimore #11

Thousands of prominent Maryland citizens. #12

These people were arrested and held in Military prisons, without trial, some of them for years.

This trashing of the Constitution upset many Marylanders. One of them was named Booth.

Committing so many crimes against Maryland would end up giving Lincoln a big "headache".

SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS



April 25 1861, When it looks as though Maryland may secede from the Union, Lincoln sends a letter to General Winfield Scott giving him permission to bombard Maryland's Cities.

Lincoln couldn't wait to bombard innocent civilians. We call that Terrorism these days.


#13 Lincoln issues the Emancipation Proclamation.

This is a direct violation of the US Constitution and the US Supreme Courts decision on the matter.


#14 The Lincoln administration allowed the taking of private property for public use without just compensation or due process of law.

This is a clear violation of the 5th Amendment.

A prime example is the Union army stealing Robert E Lees home, Arlington House, which they used as Headquarters.

Since dead Union soldiers were stacking up like cordwood, they started burying them in Lee's yard. There were so many Union soldiers graves here, this was to become Arlington National Cemetery.

#15 The Lincoln Administration routinely used water torture against the thousands of Union prisoners arrested and jailed without trail.

This violates the 8th Amendment,

"Cruel and unusual punishment".

#16 Lincoln was Commander-in-Chief of an Army whose invasion of the South resulted in the deaths of 50,000 Southern civilians.

"We'll fight them, Sir, 'till hell freezes over, and then, Sir, we will fight them on the ice."

 

[lockster99]

AS far as Southern pride? If you're not from here you will never understand what it means to be from the South. For me personally, it's not all about the CW either.

We do for our selves what most can't or wont.
We survive off what most can't or wont.
We look out for our neighbors our family and our friends
We say "yes sir...no sir" "yes mam...no mam"
Most all of our states are bigger than any 4 or 5 from Back East put together
And we fly The Stars and Bars
Your welcome to visit...spend money...Hell you can even live here now days....
But you will always be a Damn Yankee to us.

 

[lockster99]

Besides, the North had slaves also. As a matter of a fact New England had indentured servitude way before the CW.

Well? Why wasn't that "disgusting"? It irks me how people like to pick and choose the pieces of history they want to run down.

 

[kayakpat]

No use arguing, to many facts to present the case, and I can present many of history's conclusion. the history speaks for itself, No matter how much you spin it, the truth will never change. The South was run by aristocratic plantation owners with slaves who convinced the poor southern men to die for their benefit. The North has always had it's problems too, but we are able to admit our poor behavior and abuses while developing. The North gave up slaves because , slavery does violate the Constitution and all men are born free and equal. New states were being added, the south which had dominated the government up to that time was slowly being overruled by these new states and the old states that had replaced slaves with poor immigrant workers. Heritage is a false badge of glorified and romanticized and sanitized of lives of long gone people, like the antiques I have collected, actually near worthless except to people who need to identify with them

 

[ARC]

All I can say is...

If I knew all this was gonna happen...

I would have picked my own damn cotton. :P

 

[Muddyhandz]

Yes, slavery is appalling but do you Northerners really think your hands are so clean?
As a foreigner, one would grow up hearing how the "righteous" North would defeat the big bad racist South to end slavery.
Yet, it was the same "righteous" Blue Coats that rode off on their calvary and slaughtered all the Indians they could right after defeating the "racist" South.
Breaking promises and treaties.....ask the Native Americans what they think about the Union!
I sure wish everyone could agree on the truth of the matter and move forward as the UNITED States of America.
Unfortunately, the division is too great and that will be it's downfall.
Take one look at this thread and the civil war could happen all over again at any moment!
Peace.

 

[Red James Cash]

The north is just as guilty of slavery as the south.The first black slave in Massachusetts was in fact owned by a free black man.The emancipation proclamation was only written to pull the north back together when on the verge of losing the war.Technically it had nothing to do with freeing the slaves,just another big pile of B.S.to make the north look righteous.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

No use arguing, to many facts to present the case, and I can present many of history's conclusion. the history speaks for itself, No matter how much you spin it, the truth will never change. The South was run by aristocratic plantation owners with slaves who convinced the poor southern men to die for their benefit. The North has always had it's problems too, but we are able to admit our poor behavior and abuses while developing. The North gave up slaves because , slavery does violate the Constitution and all men are born free and equal. New states were being added, the south which had dominated the government up to that time was slowly being overruled by these new states and the old states that had replaced slaves with poor immigrant workers. Heritage is a false badge of glorified and romanticized and sanitized of lives of long gone people, like the antiques I have collected, actually near worthless except to people who need to identify with them

Yet the north continued to hold slaves 3 years after freeing them in the South, and Lincoln offered to push a Constitutional Amendment guaranteeing slavery if South would return to union.

Your heritage may be a false badge to you, ours is not..

 

[FreeBirdTim]

But you will always be a Damn Yankee to us

Sad that you Southerners are still holding on to a grudge 150 years after the fact. Time to let go of the 1800's and move on to the 21st century...

 

[Red James Cash]

Sad that you Southerners are still holding on to a grudge 150 years after the fact. Time to let go of the 1800's and move on to the 21st century...

Its just part of the ole divide and conquer routine.some day people will stop,think,and realize it.

 

[releventchair]

'But you will always be a Damn Yankee to us."
Doubt that's what was said to the Yanks that fought for the South.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Sad that you Southerners are still holding on to a grudge 150 years after the fact. Time to let go of the 1800's and move on to the 21st century...

Because we are proud of our heritage does not mean we hold a grudge. We still believe in God, salute Old Glory, defend our country and will protect and defend our Constitution and Bill of rights against ALL enemies....

 

[ECS]

Sad that you Southerners are still holding on to a grudge 150 years after the fact. Time to let go of the 1800's and move on to the 21st century...

What is neglected in our history books is that the Union conducted war of the civilians in the South in their "noble" fight to preserve the Union, committing any atrocities that were not all that noble. Sherman's scorched earth policy in Georgia and South Carolina is well known, but the war in Florida is mostly mentioned in a paragraph or two in most history books.
In Florida I was the War of Northern Aggression.
Coastal towns were occupied, and Union blockade squadrons patrolled both coasts and the St Johns River.
In St Augustine, families that supported the Confederacy, were forced from their homes loaded on wagons and driven out of town.
The Union conducted inland raids on the civilian farms and homesteads, looting , burning, and many times the rape of the women.
On a raid to Marianna, which was defended by old men, women, and children, they stole all the livestock, and burned the church.
In Ocala, they raided, looted and burned the Marshall Plantation, then crossed the Oklawaha River, burned the bridge, and did the same to Holley's Farm, setting fire to the house while an infirmed Mrs Holley sick in bed was still in the house.
Yulee's Plantation in Homosassa was looted and burned, as well as his railroad depot and docks in Cedar Key.
The Union garrison at Fort Meyers, regularly looted and burned the homesteads of South Florida, attempting to stop the trade of the CSA "cow cavalry" at Fort Meade.
There are many more incidents of this, and then the South suffered under Reconstruction, which gave rise to a resistance group begun by CSA Gen Nathan Bedford Forrest.
I find it curious, that while you hold Southern Heritage in disdain, your adopted screen name is from a song by the Jacksonville, Florida band, LYNYRD SKYNYRD , about Duane Allman, a great guitarist from Daytona Beach ,Florida.
From another Lynyrd Skynyrd song , "Southern man don't need him around" about a put down by Neil Young.