Why did Travis Tumlinson Fake the Stone Maps as a Hoax?

[Azquester]

As I recall, that cache (whatever the true amount) had the fingerprints of a Mexican rancher from the Revolution days on it. I believe the argument was forwarded a couple years ago in the "Jesuit Treasures - Are They Real?" thread. A nice recovery, no doubt.

The one thing Mr Quinn's Treasure does prove is that there are Ground Maps made from bedrock which is the base for the final maps at all these Treasure Locations. So when you say "Ground Map" we're not talking about paper or stone, but, actual maps in the solid rock terrain.
That's what you look for when you find a final site something the stone maps or paper maps don't tell you, or, maybe they do and no one gets it. I've seen maps from the Archives of the Indies with the walker markers of feet monuments to a specific Treasure or Gold Mine. When you find one though it may be thousands of feet and another mountain range over before you find the next one. Those have a shadow symbol for the measurement on them with a direction for the next one along the walkers trails.

 

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[Azquester]

I'll have to wait until I get a chance to look them over Marius, but I suspect each may relate either to an individual cache of goodies, or to a specific place where other maps were meant to be hidden. Another possibility is that the six oblong shapes on the back of the heart were meant to represent six steps at the end of a narrow and deeply worn trail, such as what can be seen in these two shots.....

View attachment 1280342 View attachment 1280346

However, with all the more recently gathered evidence pointing to Travis Tumlinson as the author of all of these stones, including the red heart stone, it seems that all of this is related to the other historical clues, maps and stones I have been working with more recently.
On the other hand I expect that the story of the Tumlinson saga, along with Travis' own motives in all of this will be directed more towards Travis' relationship with Clyde Barrow and Bonnie Parker, and what may have happened to the proceeds of their crime spree. Bonnie and Clyde were looking for Travis, and it wasn't because he didn't deliver the groceries. At the end of THAT trail, Travis had the cash/cache and B & C wound up dead and fulla lead.

You're joking right?

If that's the angle they're pursuing with the show I never would've thought in a thousand years it was going to be a fantasy / comedy! Sounds like old Travis spit out more tall tales then Baron Munchausen!

 

[markmar]

Wayne

I believe the six zeros were made by Travis because they have not any relation with the heart region . They are not underground caves or landmarks on the surface . They don't belong to the heart .

 

[Azquester]

Pictures of treasure are just that, pictures. No way to verify anyone found it with a ground map or even owned it by themselves. Until I hold or see a treasure being brought to the surface in person or with on site verification by an independent neutral party, it's just a photo. We've all had to many fake map makers and treasure finders spew lies on here to believe any spittle coming from the likes of fake stone map maker Travis.

It seems we're going the same route as the first show.

All giggly historical story line glitter and no real substantiated substance.

 

[somehiker]

You're joking right?

If that's the angle they're pursuing with the show I never would've thought in a thousand years it was going to be a fantasy / comedy! Sounds like old Travis spit out more tall tales then Baron Munchausen!

Maybe Bill....or maybe not.
Guess we'll have to wait and see as to how it all works out.
After all, entertainment's a tricky trade with illusion and diversion being important as part of the packaging and promotion.
That's why "who done it's" have always been popular.

 

[somehiker]

Wayne

I believe the six zeros were made by Travis because they have not any relation with the heart region . They are not underground caves or landmarks on the surface . They don't belong to the heart .

Well, a friend said that he did, as a way to " throw people off ".
And if he carved the entire set of stone maps, perhaps he thought that wasn't enough of a fait accompli to do the job, and adding the six " zeros " ( since that's what most folks would see them as ) would ensure those who HAD seen them would be misled to other thoughts and places. Sort of a double whammy in other words.

 

[sdcfia]

On the other hand I expect that the story of the Tumlinson saga, along with Travis' own motives in all of this will be directed more towards Travis' relationship with Clyde Barrow and Bonnie Parker, and what may have happened to the proceeds of their crime spree. Bonnie and Clyde were looking for Travis, and it wasn't because he didn't deliver the groceries. At the end of THAT trail, Travis had the cash/cache and B & C wound up dead and fulla lead.

You may actually be close to the bone here, hiker. This whole Travis/Clyde relationship is intriguing to say the least. Since we don't know what it actually was, we can speculate. No law against speculation. Until we do know all the details - if that is even feasible - many possibilities remain on the table. I know Ryan says, "No, no, no," but ... hmmm.

Fact: we know that Travis and Clyde had some sort of relationship beginning when both criminals served time together in a Texas prison in the early 1930s and apparently continuing after their releases. This later contact - whatever it was - happened during the Barrow Gang crime spree that included 12-15 bank robberies, possibly dozens of other commercial robberies, and at least 13 murders.

Fact: the bank robberies alone averaged about $2,500/pop. That's about $35,000 cash, total, early 30s dollars. That's about 1700 ounces of gold @$20.67/tr oz. To put it in perspective, in today's money, for the bank robberies alone, the gang walked off with maybe $2,250,000 cash ($160,000/bank).

Speculation: assume half or three-quarters of the bank loot can be accounted for - recovered; divvied up among the gang; the cost of doing business; and the daily expense of living like bank robbers (ha ha). That potentially leaves a quarter of the loot, $500,000 (three or four robberies worth), that remained unrecovered and unaccounted for following the end of the fun for Bonnie and Clyde in 1934. We can further speculate that the gang might have cached some or all of this along the crime trail.

Speculation: let's put our tinfoil hats on and wonder if Clyde might have asked his old con pal Travis about a good place in Texas to hide some cash until they needed it later. Let's say they hid a couple hundred thousand or more (today's value) and died in Louisiana before they could come back for it. What would keep Travis from harvesting a couple bags of cash that Bonnie and Clyde would never have a use for? He may have provided the hidey-hole.

Speculation: Q: "Where'd you get the money for that new car, Travis?" A: "Arizona. Yeah, Arizona - it's a secret".

 

[somehiker]

Good work with those numbers.
The dates and known travels of the gang, who often split up and made their own way, leaves room for more speculation as well.
And it has been said that many areas within the mountains were accessible by automobile in those days......so ?

Speculation:
Any relevant " Statute of Limitations" might have applied as well. both for Arizona and Texas.
I would think 20 years on, it would have been safe to assume that he was home free, with mainly non-official types to worry about.

Probably nothing to do with the real story. But keeps the brain cells warmed up.

 

[sdcfia]

Good work with those numbers.
The dates and known travels of the gang, who often split up and made their own way, leaves room for more speculation as well.
And it has been said that many areas within the mountains were accessible by automobile in those days......so ?

Speculation:
Any relevant " Statute of Limitations" might have applied as well. both for Arizona and Texas.
I would think 20 years on, it would have been safe to assume that he was home free, with mainly non-official types to worry about.

Probably nothing to do with the real story. But keeps the brain cells warmed up.

Don't sell your ideas short, hiker. Yeah, what's the "real story"? Remember, in the early 1930s gold coins were legal tender. That's real. Bank robbery loot may well have included many double eagles. That's real. Just after the B&C crime spree, possession of gold in the USA became illegal. That's real. Same applied twenty years later. That's real too. If a guy had a nice bag of gold coins he couldn't legally own, and a penchant of playing loose with the rules, then maybe he could manufacture a "treasure map" and concoct a "treasure find". Just melt the coins down into "Spanish gold bars", and sell 'em underground for cash. That's speculation, but on the table.

 

[Azquester]

Good work with those numbers.
The dates and known travels of the gang, who often split up and made their own way, leaves room for more speculation as well.
And it has been said that many areas within the mountains were accessible by automobile in those days......so ?

Speculation:
Any relevant " Statute of Limitations" might have applied as well. both for Arizona and Texas.
I would think 20 years on, it would have been safe to assume that he was home free, with mainly non-official types to worry about.

Probably nothing to do with the real story. But keeps the brain cells warmed up.

I can see the Barrow Gang sliding into the Superstitions late one night in a brand new Olds...burying gold and guns for the next crime spree...making barn maps for finding the loot!

I can see you Wayne playing Clyde in a series about Travis only thing is who would play Bonnie?

I know only one person on here that photo's well sporting a pistol with a Stogie hanging from their mouth!

Have you told him yet?

 

[cactusjumper]

Don't sell your ideas short, hiker. Yeah, what's the "real story"? Remember, in the early 1930s gold coins were legal tender. That's real. Bank robbery loot may well have included many double eagles. That's real. Just after the B&C crime spree, possession of gold in the USA became illegal. That's real. Same applied twenty years later. That's real too. If a guy had a nice bag of gold coins he couldn't legally own, and a penchant of playing loose with the rules, then maybe he could manufacture a "treasure map" and concoct a "treasure find". Just melt the coins down into "Spanish gold bars", and sell 'em underground for cash. That's speculation, but on the table.

Steve,

Really anxious to see the Tumlinson "manuscript" now that Bonnie and Clyde have been injected into the story. Kinda makes this whole yarn more believable and trustworthy. Wonder what will be coming down the pike next? To tell the truth, having conversations with Moctezuma is starting to seem possible.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[markmar]

Wayne

I believe the six zeros were made by Travis because they have not any relation with the heart region . They are not underground caves or landmarks on the surface . They don't belong to the heart .

But... i believe I was wrong when i wrote how the " zeros " are not landmarks on the surface , because when i changed the time/period on GE I saw that : some waves which look like chambers in the right position of the map .

 

[markmar]

Seems like the cat-mouse game , but I want to show you for the first time the " 7 " from the heart .
Coincidence ? I don't think so .

 

[Azquester]

I think you got the wrong Pic there. I only see one of those six zero's in yeller. And that other one looks like a heart shaped meteor hit the earth. Or Godzilla had a heart attack right there at that spot. But if you dig hearts you found a doozy.

 

[somehiker]

Steve,

Really anxious to see the Tumlinson "manuscript" now that Bonnie and Clyde have been injected into the story. Kinda makes this whole yarn more believable and trustworthy. Wonder what will be coming down the pike next? To tell the truth, having conversations with Moctezuma is starting to seem possible.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

Well, I don't know about Moctezuma in the manuscript, but you can always hope for a conversation with Ted DeGazia I suppose. Or maybe even " Johnny Steele ", the gravestone-carvin-cowboy. And a photo of Travis carving the Priest, with Chuck Aylor posing in a robe and pointy witch hat, would certainly get folks scratchin their heads, wouldn't it ?
But then again, all of this is like a game of " Scrabble " I suppose.....when the more letters you got, the more words you can make.
Or make up.

Regards:Wayne

 

[somehiker]

Seems like the cat-mouse game , but I want to show you for the first time the " 7 " from the heart .
Coincidence ? I don't think so .

View attachment 1280996

" Cat-Mouse Game "
Is that something like " Dog bites Man " ??

Three 7's.
One in the heart cavity...one on the lower Trail Stone... and one at the base of the Priest.
All done the same way. And all the same place.
To the devout, seven has a biblical/spiritual meaning....the perfect or divine end of something important.
Like the latin " Cursum Perficio " for example.

I doubt very much that a satellite photo, or aerial photo from a balloon or airplane was used to map the features which appear on Travis' stones.
It's more likely they were taken from eye-level view of what surrounded the artist/mapmaker.
Who may very well have seen a " 7 " like this....

 

[Azquester]

Seems like the cat-mouse game , but I want to show you for the first time the " 7 " from the heart .
Coincidence ? I don't think so .

View attachment 1280996

All from the Heart. Three sevens plus three horse shoes and you guessed it, more stairs.

View attachment 1281188

All hearts an Ace, King, Queen, Jack, and the numeral ten.

I believe that's a royal flush,

I win!

 

[markmar]

Wayne

Of course they didn't use balloons , airplanes or satellite image to make the maps . For this reason the maps are not 100% accurate . I give a 95% . Also the heart is about 750 feet long and about 700 feet wide with the highest point of the maps to be inside . From the highest point and to the limits of the heart are about 130-200 feet altitude average . So , was possible to see the region around and to make a map .

Below ,the stone trail map and diagonally a big part of the stone cross map .



Also , the waves/zeros can be distinguished in this GE picture .

 

[cactusjumper]

Wayne

Of course they didn't use balloons , airplanes or satellite image to make the maps . For this reason the maps are not 100% accurate . I give a 95% . Also the heart is about 750 feet long and about 700 feet wide with the highest point of the maps to be inside . From the highest point and to the limits of the heart are about 130-200 feet altitude average . So , was possible to see the region around and to make a map .

Below ,the stone trail map and diagonally a big part of the stone cross map .

View attachment 1281320

Also , the waves/zeros can be distinguished in this GE picture .

Marius,

Your trail is not logical. It takes you into deep ravines climbs back out, when the easiest path is around the small peak. Elevation change would be almost zero.

If you want to send me one (1) coordinate, I will place it on a topographic map and show you what I'm talking about.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[markmar]

Joe

The stone trail is not the easiest path of the region . Is a dangerous path which tests the searcher's faith . The only logic with this trail is how if you don't follow it you will don't know where the cave is .